what are sins that lead to death

[thegospelisgoodnews]

we see in the old and new testiment, there are certain sins that remain sins forever, like killing your parents.......pretty much is going to be frowned upon no matter what time period you live in. we see many folks talk about old testiment laws, such as eating clams and wearing clothing of two mixed threads were forbidden, but are these what we see making the list that paul gives in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.........or the one where the apostles convened to decide what laws the gentiles should keep.......It appears sexual immorality laws are across the board.......why is it such a battle to not except these timeless laws as they are written

 

[Jase]

Why do you continue to cling to a verse that was corrupted by Conservative Bible translators?

 

[drjean]

IMO the sin that leads to death is the last sin you do. "...sin unto death..." is this the verse to which you refer?

Now, as for Old and New Covenant issues, I surmise that the real issue isn't the actual act but the condition of the heart...the motivation for what one does. Yes, there are some things that will consistently/always be wrong before God Almighty. But there are other things that are perhaps in His "permissible" will, rather than His "perfect" will... I suggest divorce is one of those, i.e. as He allowed it for some reasons after Moses pleas.

 

[Armistead14]

Not sure what you mean, but remember the law was written for and by the jews, not for others, but that doesn't in itself mean God's moral laws change with people, just that the mosaic system of laws were for a time and a people.


Sexual laws were much different in the OT as women were the property of the father or husband, many of these cruel laws wouldn't be accepted in our culture of today as women have moral and legal rights that didn't exist in that culture. You can't apply laws written in one culture for a certain people to another people of a different culture. Simply, we don't stone children, Priest are not judge and jury,

The apostles gave commands, they had no legal bearing in that system.

 

[Ave Maria]

If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.
(1 John 5:16-17 RSV)

I believe this is the part of the Bible that you are referring to. Some sins are mortal sins and some sins are venial sins. Mortal sins are sins that will lead you to Hell if you do not fully repent of them and confess them. Venial sins will not send you to Hell but they still damage your relationship with God.

That said, some examples of sins that can be mortal sins are: murder, abortion, stealing, marrying after a divorce without an annulment, and more.

 

[thegospelisgoodnews]

Why do you continue to cling to a verse that was corrupted by Conservative Bible translators?

Even if I accepted you're translation, the immoral laws of sex outside of marriage would still be against same sex partners, since it has never been accepted. what translation error do you find in the Leviticus passage of a man lying with another man, as a man lies with a woman is detestable in the Lords eyes?

 

[miamited]

hi tgign,

You asked: what are sins that lead to death

Well, that's really a pretty simple answer. Any and all of them.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Jase]

Even if I accepted you're translation, the immoral laws of sex outside of marriage would still be against same sex partners, since it has never been accepted. what translation error do you find in the Leviticus passage of a man lying with another man, as a man lies with a woman is detestable in the Lords eyes?

Leviticus doesn't say that in Hebrew. And are you aware that 2 different words in Hebrew are used in that verse to refer to "to lie" and they both mean different things? That distinction does not exist in English. Abomination/detestable is also a big mistranslation from the Hebrew, which has not nearly the same negative connotation. And it's strictly in the context of pagan worship rituals to the God molech (if you learned how those chapters are constructed you would see that condemnation is not located where it would be if it was referring to what you think). Even Philo, a 1st Century contemporary of Paul and expert on Jewish law stated that those Leviticus passages were condemning pagan prostitution.

Jewish law also makes it impossible for Leviticus to be referring to consensual same-sex relations, because those would not fall under the requirements to prove a criminal offense has taken place based on Jewish legal criteria. According to the Talmud, no one has ever been charged with homosexuality based on Leviticus.

And finally, even if Leviticus did mean what you think, Leviticus also says to stone disobedient children and rape victims, and execute anyone who works on Saturdays. Until you hold as much value to those commands as you do the anti-gay passages, I cannot take you seriously and I will just consider your beliefs hypocritical and cherry picking.

 

[Shizzle]

Leviticus also says to stone disobedient children and rape victims,

Not true. It does not say that about rape victims. It says to put children to death who strike their parents.

That's muslims who do that to rape victims! Why lie about God's law? People passing by would believe you and repeat it to others..

 

[fhansen]

Like Ave Maria said, the Apostle John distinguished between sins that lead to death and those that don't. Our faith defines sins that lead to death as acts that oppose love and destroy love in us.

These sins have to meet three conditions: a sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."

Grave matter is specified for us in the Ten Commandments.

 

[thegospelisgoodnews]

hi tgign,

You asked: what are sins that lead to death

Well, that's really a pretty simple answer. Any and all of them.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Not according to John 5:16........In my opinion John is refering to the second death, we all are going to die, if sin by itself caused death, then the most sinful people would die early and the most Godly would live the longest......since we see this is not the case, he must be refering to the second death.......there are sin's that won't keep you from inheriting salvation

 

[thegospelisgoodnews]

Leviticus doesn't say that in Hebrew. And are you aware that 2 different words in Hebrew are used in that verse to refer to "to lie" and they both mean different things? That distinction does not exist in English. Abomination/detestable is also a big mistranslation from the Hebrew, which has not nearly the same negative connotation. And it's strictly in the context of pagan worship rituals to the God molech (if you learned how those chapters are constructed you would see that condemnation is not located where it would be if it was referring to what you think). Even Philo, a 1st Century contemporary of Paul and expert on Jewish law stated that those Leviticus passages were condemning pagan prostitution.

Jewish law also makes it impossible for Leviticus to be referring to consensual same-sex relations, because those would not fall under the requirements to prove a criminal offense has taken place based on Jewish legal criteria. According to the Talmud, no one has ever been charged with homosexuality based on Leviticus.

And finally, even if Leviticus did mean what you think, Leviticus also says to stone disobedient children and rape victims, and execute anyone who works on Saturdays. Until you hold as much value to those commands as you do the anti-gay passages, I cannot take you seriously and I will just consider your beliefs hypocritical and cherry picking.

So given the entirety of all the books of the bible, can you show me from scripture were homosexuality was condoned, I mean if it wasn't looked down upon as you believe, It just seems logical that at least a few characters in the bible were gay and we could have read about them and their life partners..........I mean I don't recall any Abraham and Glen or Samson and Terry stories.......considering homosexuals believe they make up more than 10% of the population, there should be at least 10% bible characters that are gay........but we don't see that do we

 

[brightmorningstar]

all sin leads to death.
Indeed this is a message from God throughout the Bible.
But note Jesus was specific in John 8:24
"I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”
To me this indicates people wont know or acknowldge even what their sins are unless they believe in Christ, who He is, whjat He has done, and what the sins are.

 

[ThankGod]

Who must you admit your sins to? God, a priest, whom?

 

[Jase]

So given the entirety of all the books of the bible, can you show me from scripture were homosexuality was condoned, I mean if it wasn't looked down upon as you believe, It just seems logical that at least a few characters in the bible were gay and we could have read about them and their life partners..........I mean I don't recall any Abraham and Glen or Samson and Terry stories.......considering homosexuals believe they make up more than 10% of the population, there should be at least 10% bible characters that are gay........but we don't see that do we

First of all, who ever claimed gays make up more than 10% of the population? Try less than 5%. When you factor in bisexuals, you might approach 10%, although I believe the bisexual population is much higher than most people will admit.

Sexual orientation was also not discovered until the 19th Century. No one in biblical days would have understood that a small subset of the population had their brain chemistry wired to be exclusively attracted to members of the same-sex. Same-sex activity existed, but in the overwhelming majority of those cases, those people also were married or engaged in opposite sex activity.

As to why it's not in the Bible, same reason the Bible doesn't condone or discuss computers, cars, junk food, quantum mechanics, Tay Sachs disease, intersex individuals, space travel, Australians, etc. etc.

The overwhelming majority of human knowledge and experience does not exist in the Bible. The Bible was directed at specific cultures with a very specific agenda. It does not deal with minorities that no one would have any conception of.

Same-sex activity in Biblical days was most commonly associated with pagan worship practices, because that was their culture. One partner was almost always subservient to the other, just like women were subservient to men. Monogamous, same-sex consensual relationships were nearly non-existent. Certainly not common enough that the Bible would discuss them. Although, while it's brought up often, and dismissed, I consider the description of the David and Jonathan to be far too intimate as described to be considered a purely platonic relationship. Reading about them sounds like part of the script of Brokeback Mountain.

Aside from that, there were no monogamous same-sex relationships, because such a concept didn't exist in the cultures found in the Bible, just like monogamy and equality were non-existent in the Bible between partners. You won't find too many cases of women owning property or earning more money than her husband in the Bible. Does that mean the status of women in modern day society is a sin and evil just because the Bible doesn't discuss it? You won't find a discussion on intersex individuals who have chromosomes and genitals of both sexes in the Bible. What does God suggest we do about them?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

[ThankGod]

Are you saying that the Bible condones homosexuality?

 

[brightmorningstar]

Jase,

Sexual orientation was also not discovered until the 19th Century. No one in biblical days would have understood that a small subset of the population had their brain chemistry wired to be exclusively attracted to members of the same-sex. Same-sex activity existed, but in the overwhelming majority of those cases, those people also were married or engaged in opposite sex activity.

So are you suggesting the discovery of what you call sexual orientation coincided with its first occurence?
What made the people of the Biblical times engage in same sex acts is not given, but it is condemned as against God’s purposes. Now the pagans at the time of Leviticus and the pagan Roman and Geek cultures thought it ok, but the word of God condemns it.
Your argument can decide whether you disbelieve the word of God, or believe there is wired chemistry, even though there isnt even scientific consensus on that, but you cant say the Bible is wong, that means you don’t believe it. .

As to why it's not in the Bible, same reason the Bible doesn't condone or discuss computers, cars, junk food, quantum mechanics, Tay Sachs disease, intersex individuals, space travel, Australians, etc. etc.

Sorry but unlike all the things you mentioned, the Bible does condemn same sex relations, and describes why, there are against God’s purposes in creating man and woman to be united. This is also supported by observable anatomy.

Same-sex activity in Biblical days was most commonly associated with pagan worship practices, because that was their culture.

Yes, and it was condemned as being what pagans do (Lev 18 & 20) and what people who have turned from God do (Romans 1)

One partner was almost always subservient to the other, just like women were subservient to men.

Except that it wasn’t always pederasty, and its still men abandoning the natural use of women that is error.
There is no indication of any sexual activity or desire between David and Jonathan. Both were married and the only people David is recorded as having any sexual desires for is a woman.

Monogamous, same-sex consensual relationships were nearly non-existent.

Nearly? But monogamous same-sex consensual relationships are still men abandoning the natural use of women and lying with men as with women, still just as condemned as if it were multiple partner and forced.
Your argument doesn’t work. Men with men instead of the natural use of women is condemned as against what God created man and woman for (Gen 2, Matt 19)

 

[thegospelisgoodnews]

Are you saying that the Bible condones homosexuality?

This is what someone who is completely under the deception of satan looks like, I was just fishing to see how far the delusion has intertwined itself into to this persons thinking, he is thoroughly convinced he has a chemical imbalance that some how caused him to be attracted to the same sex, and that God hasn't given him over to a debased mind for rejecting the truth and believing the lie, professing to be wise, they became fools.........And I will honestly say that I was the greatest of all fools, even more so! because I rejected the truth, even though I knew in my heart it was wrong, how much more is that a complete rebellion against God, knowing full well that God finds my actions detestable but simply laughing at Him and mocking Him and doing what I knew was abominable and I was storing up wrath against myself, Then while I was yet a sinner, God reached out to me one more time, because it was very apparent I was about to die, and If God was willing to forgive me after all that, If God still loved me after all I had done, who can resist this kind of love, its so powerful, so overwhelming, it brings a man to his knees in weeping and true repentance, I was shown all my sins that stood between me and God and they were as vast as the sky is filled with stars, and I could understand and fathem each and everyone of them at the same time, I know what judgement will be like, you do not want to see and know your sins, it is a sickning experience, all men will bow before the Lord Jesus Christ due to acknowledging their own sins. their eyes will be opened and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds and all nations will mourn, because they will all know. the book of Jude warns Jase of the type of Christianity he is following. If he really loved the Lord more than wanting to be loved by another man, he would deny himself and follow Jesus, In this denial he would find where the truth really was, and that His word has not been twisted and mis-interpreted, but the opposite was true. And more importantly he would find that freedom that people talk about, that he's never known, because its only found in true repentance and denial of what sin's were bound with, getting free begins with rejecting the lie, whether its alcohol, drugs, sexual perversions, inappropriate content.....people have to reject these things as what they promise and tell them is a lie, they promise fulfilment and satisfaction, but they never do, they always want more, they always leave the person wanting more they are never satisfied they never leave a person fulfilled, thats the lie of the addiction, when people can reconize this truth, they can begin to fight, the battle is in the mind, rejecting lies, accepting God's truth

 

[thegospelisgoodnews]

Jase,

So are you suggesting the discovery of what you call sexual orientation coincided with its first occurence?
What made the people of the Biblical times engage in same sex acts is not given, but it is condemned as against God’s purposes. Now the pagans at the time of Leviticus and the pagan Roman and Geek cultures thought it ok, but the word of God condemns it.
Your argument can decide whether you disbelieve the word of God, or believe there is wired chemistry, even though there isnt even scientific consensus on that, but you cant say the Bible is wong, that means you don’t believe it. .
Sorry but unlike all the things you mentioned, the Bible does condemn same sex relations, and describes why, there are against God’s purposes in creating man and woman to be united. This is also supported by observable anatomy.

Yes, and it was condemned as being what pagans do (Lev 18 & 20) and what people who have turned from God do (Romans 1)
Except that it wasn’t always pederasty, and its still men abandoning the natural use of women that is error.
There is no indication of any sexual activity or desire between David and Jonathan. Both were married and the only people David is recorded as having any sexual desires for is a woman.
Nearly? But monogamous same-sex consensual relationships are still men abandoning the natural use of women and lying with men as with women, still just as condemned as if it were multiple partner and forced.
Your argument doesn’t work. Men with men instead of the natural use of women is condemned as against what God created man and woman for (Gen 2, Matt 19)

Hey! bright morning star, God bless!, I think the bible does state where homosexuality began in Romans 1:18-2818 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;....................rejecting Gods truth, Idolatry which can take many different forms (self idolatry is what we see alot of today) and when people exchange the truth for a lie, God gives them over to all sorts of perverted and wicked ideas

 

[brightmorningstar]

Amen thegospelisgoodnews!