What are Catholics?

[speechless]

I was led to believe that Catholics are a denomination of Christianity. I've spoken with some people regarding this matter, and they disagree. Any takes on this?

 

[Placid]

Speechless,

I will not attempt to define what a Roman Catholic is in full. I hope that some of the Catholic contributors here will give you a summary of what they see to be the most important distinctives of Catholicism.

One thing I do want to attempt in my reply to you is mark a very important difference between Catholics and Protestants. In much of the discussion I've read in the forums on this site, there seems to be a lack of clarity regarding what most fundamentally separates the two groups. Yes, the authority of the Pope and church tradition are key points of departure. Purgatory, veneration of saints, transubstantiation - these doctrines (and many others) are all worth discussing. Also note that Catholics and Protestants agree on an amazing number of issues, including the doctrine of the nature of Christ and the Trinity.

But there is one fundamental difference that, I would argue, all Christians should be aware of - especially if they are going to engage in Protestant-Catholic dialogue:

The official doctrine of the Roman Catholic church teaches that justification is not by faith alone, as this phrase is understood by the Reformers. That is, the Roman Catholic church denies that the basis of entering eternal life is faith in the person and work of Christ alone. Regardless of one's view on this issue, it must be admitted by all sides that we are talking about a core issue of the Christian faith: namely, how is it that humans are declared righteous in God's sight and saved?

If you read the "anathemas" from the Council of Trent (an official Council of the Roman Catholic church), you'll actually get a fairly accurate view of the Reformers' position. Quoting from the section on justification, Canon IX:

"If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema"

And again from CANON XXIV:

"If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema."

These statements are considered to be infallible truths according to official Roman Catholic doctrine. I encourage you to compare these statements to Scripture. Eph 2:8-10 may be a good starting point:

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

I might also suggest Rom 3-4, Gal 2:15-3:29, and Phil 3:2-11.

So, Protestants believe in justification by faith alone. That is their most essential difference from Catholics. The official Roman Catholic doctrine of justification, as found in the Council of Trent, the new Catechism of the Catholic church, and elsewhere, says "Let him go to Hell" (anathema) to those who believe in justification by faith alone. (Please note that I am emphasizing the official position of the Catholic church, and in no way mean to imply that Catholics cannot be Christians.) The doctrine of justification is the very thing that sparked the Protestant Reformation in the first place; like Paul in Galatians, the Reformers were zealous to maintain that the gospel is one of pure grace, trust in Christ's atoning death and his righteous life alone (no mixture of human works are involved in the basis of our justification).

It should be remembered that all orthodox Protestants also believe that good works are essential for Christians. But they maintain that good works are the necessary fruits of justification (the anathema view which Canon XXIV describes above), not in any way the cause of justification. The Protestant view is that Christ is the sole cause of our justification before God.

If one believes that the Protestant view of salvation and specifically justification is true, then it logically follows that those who do truly believe the official doctrine of the Roman Catholic church are not saved. Yet let me say again, please read the following carefully: I am not saying that all Romans Catholics are not Christians. (By the way, I certainly wouldn't claim that all Protestants are Christians either).

From a Protestant perspective, there certainly have been and still are Roman Catholics who are Christians, trusting in Christ's goodness alone (not any internal merit) for salvation. These are persons who do not know the official theology of the church, those who do not understand the implications of the official theology, and those who do not believe the official theology.

Since Vatican II, some Roman Catholics have made a noticeable move towards the Protestant view of justification by faith. For example, J.A. Fitzmyer, a well-known Catholic scholar, makes statements concerning justification that seem to be 100% Reformed with a different name (He calls himself a 'transformationist,' see his commentary on Romans). I personally know several Roman Catholics who understand well that salvation is wholly of God, and count them my brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[Vijaykyu]

We are the original Christian Church. We trace the lineage of the organization all the way back to Peter, to whom Jesus gave the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. The Eastern Orthodox split off around 1000 A.D., the Protestant Churches began about 1600. Hope this helps.
In Christ
Vincent

 

[I can eat 50 eggs]

How much of an answer are you looking for here? anything in specific? this topic could be covered only partially in a few thousand pages.

Other important Doctrinal differences.

Protestants believe in sola scriptura, meaning, only scripture. They don't believe that any doctrine or beliefs can be based outside the Bible, which is interesting, since that doctorine isn't in the Bible.

They also have different views on the sacraments. Of course, there is large disagreements among the protestants as to the sacraments too.

 

[undead1]

Today at 12:52 AM Placid said this in Post #2 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=661491#post661491)

If one believes that the Protestant view of salvation and specifically justification is true, then it logically follows that those who do truly believe the official doctrine of the Roman Catholic church are not saved

One problem with the debate is that what Catholics believe of Protestants, and what Catholics believe about Protestant dogma, and what Protestants believe of Catholics and, what Protestants believe about the dogma of the Catholic hierarchy, ultimately will not be definitive of whom will inherit salvation.

It is only belief in Christ which matters. And as Christ said belief is adjudicated entirely on the basis of actions, or (Christian) works (Rev 20;13 "and they were judged every man according to their works.)

So, when one compares the antinomian Protestant, with his women ministers, his congregation full of divorced persons, or people unlawfully married to each other, with the heretical Catholic, with a congregation of persons lawfully married to each other, and women in reasonable submission, one can conclude that the dichotomy between righteousness and unrighteousness is not so great and one might have concluded from a cursory examination of doctrine.

Both Catholic and modern Protestant doctrine (dogma) have become thouroughly corrupted, down the ages. The 19th century was particularly bad for Protestantism, for whilst some true protestant churches were busy evangelizing, many false churches and doctrines began to arise within Protestantism.

Today, false Protestantism is as bad as false Catholicism. Catholic dogma being full of false teaching, and practices, and inclining to Phariseeism (works without faith), whilst much Protestant dogma inclines both to antinomianism (faith without works) and Phariseeism (works without faith), gnosticism and any other heresy one cares to think of.

Whilst protestants maintain "sola scripture", the reality is that most protestants pay little attention to what the bible actually says. Conversely, Catholics stress their unbiblical and anti-biblical traditions, but also the bible, which is made subservient to those traditions.

Protestantism has largely fallen a victim to its own success. It is used generically of everything non-RCC nowadays and so is practically meaningless. There are many "protestant" churches which are really "gnostic" churches, and not worthy of the name "protestant" at all. The divisions within Protestantism are now as great as were the divisions between Catholic and Protestant in days of old.

The only truth is to be found in Christ, and not by entrusting oneself to either Protestantism or Catholicism.

 

[jukesk9]

Are Catholic Christians? Yes. Do Catholics believe that Jesus is Lord and that He was sent to die for our sins? Yes. Do Catholics believe that Jesus rose from the dead? Yes. Do Catholics believe that He will come again to judge the living and the dead? Yes. Do Catholics believe that Jesus is God? Yes.

 

[BT]

Hi speechless,

I'm not going to bash Catholics or anything since this isn't the place for debate (not to insinutate that I would bash them if it were a debate). But since you asked a simple question I'll give you a simple answer. The answer is no Catholics are not a "denomination" of christianity. They are an entity unto themselves. I know much about them since I was raised a Catholic, was an altar boy, went to Catholic school from Pre-k to Highschool graduation. I converted ten years ago.

 

[seebs]

18th February 2003 at 05:29 PM speechless said this in Post #1 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=661337#post661337)

I was led to believe that Catholics are a denomination of Christianity. I've spoken with some people regarding this matter, and they disagree. Any takes on this?

If the question is "Are Catholics Christians?", the answer is "yes". Some argue that they're not a denomination because they're the original church. I think that's sophistry; they are a group of people who hold to the beliefs of the Christian faith, and have some beliefs that are not part of the "essential" core of Christianity. (Which isn't necessarily to say those beliefs are false, just that not everyone agrees with them.)

They worship the God of Abraham, they believe Jesus was the son of God and fully God Himself, they believe in salvation through faith. There are endless disputes about whether or not they believe in "works", but their interpretation is as consistent with the Bible as anyone else's, and I think all the debates about this look to be rather thoroughly missing the point.

I frankly have no idea why people keep coming up with this nonsense about the Catholics being something other than Christian; I mean, the first time I saw it, I thought it was a *JOKE*. I mean, it's like someone arguing that people who live in Minneapolis aren't "really" Minnesotans.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

I frankly have no idea why people keep coming up with this nonsense about the Catholics being something other than Christian; I mean, the first time I saw it, I thought it was a *JOKE*. I mean, it's like someone arguing that people who live in Minneapolis aren't "really" Minnesotans.

If it is a joke, it is a very cruel one that hurts us deeply.

 

[kern]

I think that the single biggest difference between Catholics and Protestants is the issue of revealed truth. Every other difference stems from this.

Protestants usually believe that the Bible is the sole inspired source of God's Word, and everything else must be tested against against the Bible. Any other writings or traditions were made by fallible men. Any doctrine which is not found in the Bible is false.

Catholics believe that in addition to the Bible we have Sacred Tradition and the authority of the Church as infallible sources of God's Word (sort of -- Catholic belief actually places the Bible as part of Sacred Tradition). If a doctrine is not found within the pages of the Bible, that is not an issue as long as Tradition supports it.

It is this difference which causes all other differences, IMO.

-Chris

 

[Michael0701]

Thank you kern! And to think you said that clearly without slamming anyone. Some of the previous posters appear to have had ulterior motives for their posts. But I still read the OP as asking what are Catholics and not what is the difference between Catholics and Protestants. I hope someone can answer speechless' question to her satisfaction.

 

[Reformationist]

18th February 2003 at 03:29 PM speechless said this in Post #1

I was led to believe that Catholics are a denomination of Christianity. I've spoken with some people regarding this matter, and they disagree. Any takes on this?

I guess it depends on who you ask but I would say that Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity.

 

[Reformationist]

18th February 2003 at 04:52 PM Placid said this in Post #2

Speechless,

I will not attempt to define what a Roman Catholic is in full. I hope that some of the Catholic contributors here will give you a summary of what they see to be the most important distinctives of Catholicism.

One thing I do want to attempt in my reply to you is mark a very important difference between Catholics and Protestants. In much of the discussion I've read in the forums on this site, there seems to be a lack of clarity regarding what most fundamentally separates the two groups. Yes, the authority of the Pope and church tradition are key points of departure. Purgatory, veneration of saints, transubstantiation - these doctrines (and many others) are all worth discussing. Also note that Catholics and Protestants agree on an amazing number of issues, including the doctrine of the nature of Christ and the Trinity.

But there is one fundamental difference that, I would argue, all Christians should be aware of - especially if they are going to engage in Protestant-Catholic dialogue:

The official doctrine of the Roman Catholic church teaches that justification is not by faith alone, as this phrase is understood by the Reformers. That is, the Roman Catholic church denies that the basis of entering eternal life is faith in the person and work of Christ alone. Regardless of one's view on this issue, it must be admitted by all sides that we are talking about a core issue of the Christian faith: namely, how is it that humans are declared righteous in God's sight and saved?

If you read the "anathemas" from the Council of Trent (an official Council of the Roman Catholic church), you'll actually get a fairly accurate view of the Reformers' position. Quoting from the section on justification, Canon IX:

"If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema"

And again from CANON XXIV:

"If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema."

These statements are considered to be infallible truths according to official Roman Catholic doctrine. I encourage you to compare these statements to Scripture. Eph 2:8-10 may be a good starting point:

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

I might also suggest Rom 3-4, Gal 2:15-3:29, and Phil 3:2-11.

So, Protestants believe in justification by faith alone. That is their most essential difference from Catholics. The official Roman Catholic doctrine of justification, as found in the Council of Trent, the new Catechism of the Catholic church, and elsewhere, says "Let him go to Hell" (anathema) to those who believe in justification by faith alone. (Please note that I am emphasizing the official position of the Catholic church, and in no way mean to imply that Catholics cannot be Christians.) The doctrine of justification is the very thing that sparked the Protestant Reformation in the first place; like Paul in Galatians, the Reformers were zealous to maintain that the gospel is one of pure grace, trust in Christ's atoning death and his righteous life alone (no mixture of human works are involved in the basis of our justification).

It should be remembered that all orthodox Protestants also believe that good works are essential for Christians. But they maintain that good works are the necessary fruits of justification (the anathema view which Canon XXIV describes above), not in any way the cause of justification. The Protestant view is that Christ is the sole cause of our justification before God.

If one believes that the Protestant view of salvation and specifically justification is true, then it logically follows that those who do truly believe the official doctrine of the Roman Catholic church are not saved. Yet let me say again, please read the following carefully: I am not saying that all Romans Catholics are not Christians. (By the way, I certainly wouldn't claim that all Protestants are Christians either).

From a Protestant perspective, there certainly have been and still are Roman Catholics who are Christians, trusting in Christ's goodness alone (not any internal merit) for salvation. These are persons who do not know the official theology of the church, those who do not understand the implications of the official theology, and those who do not believe the official theology.

Since Vatican II, some Roman Catholics have made a noticeable move towards the Protestant view of justification by faith. For example, J.A. Fitzmyer, a well-known Catholic scholar, makes statements concerning justification that seem to be 100% Reformed with a different name (He calls himself a 'transformationist,' see his commentary on Romans). I personally know several Roman Catholics who understand well that salvation is wholly of God, and count them my brothers and sisters in Christ.

Thank you for this well written post.

God bless

 

[AngelAmidala]

[glow=teal]Admin Hat On[/glow]

See below the original post in this thread.....

18th February 2003 at 06:29 PM speechless said this in Post #1 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=661337#post661337)

I was led to believe that Catholics are a denomination of Christianity. I've spoken with some people regarding this matter, and they disagree. Any takes on this?

Michael just above me hit the nail on the head so to speak. The question was not whether Catholics are considered Christians. The question was about whether or not Catholics are considered a denomination of Christianity. There was no implication that they were not considered Christians in the original question.

So...here's the deal. Answer the original question and the original question only. We don't need to get into a debate or anything about this. There are other forums more appropriate for that sort of a thread. Questions about Christianity are just for that...questions and answers...and end of discussions. If anyone wants to take anything discussed here further for debate or discussion purposes...take it to the appropriate forum.

Okay? Cool. Any questions or concerns about this...drop me a PM. Thank you all so very much!

[glow=teal]Admin Hat Off[/glow]

 

[undead1]

Today at 10:26 PM AngelAmidala said this in Post #14 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=665828#post665828)
Michael just above me hit the nail on the head so to speak. The question was not whether Catholics are considered Christians. The question was about whether or not Catholics are considered a denomination of Christianity. There was no implication that they were not considered Christians in the original question.

It does not matter whether or not there was any implication that Catholics were not Christians in the orginal question.

Before any world organization can be considered a Christian "denomination", an investigation must first take place as to whether they are in fact Christian at all. That is a most pertinent question with Catholicism, for one can be excommunicated for trashing the pope, but one will never be excommunicated for trashing Christ himself, eg by sexually immoral behaviour.

Here is one group of people who certainly do not consider catholics to be a denomination of christianity: http://www.freepres.org

The reason for that, is that they do not consider Catholicism to be Christian.

Further, the question was ambiguous. Is it trying to ask whether or not one can be a Catholic and a Christian at the same time? Or is it asking whether the practices of the hierarchy are conformant to the spirit of the gospel? Because the answer to those two questions are diametrically opposed.

 

[jukesk9]

Not to start a debate, as keeping in accordance with AngelAmidala's post, but I thought I would clear up any of the misconceptions that might be developed from this particular post. FAITH is very important to a Catholic Christian.

18th February 2003 at 06:52 PM Placid said this in Post #2 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=661491#post661491)



The official doctrine of the Roman Catholic church teaches that justification is not by faith alone, as this phrase is understood by the Reformers.

As understood by the Reformers. The Catholic Church teaches justification is the work of God alone. The Council of Trent assigns the first and most important place to faith, which is styled "the beginning, foundation and root of all justification" (Trent, l.c., cap.viii). Since our Divine adoption and friendship with God is based on perfect love of God or charity (cf. Gal., v, 6; I Cor., xiii; James, ii, 17 sqq.), dead faith devoid of charity (fides informis) cannot possess any justifying power. The two elements of active justification, forgiveness of sin and sanctification, furnish at the same time the elements of habitual justification, freedom from sin and holiness. According to the Catholic doctrine, however, this freedom from sin and this sanctity are effected, not by two distinct and successive Divine acts, but by a single act of God.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08573a.htm

Faith is very important. We take it one step forward and say one must cooperate with God's grace. We don't earn justification. God justifies us. We start first and foremost with faith. God's grace justifies us and then we cooperate with that grace. A common misunderstanding is that Catholics earn salvation. Authentic faith is inevitably accompanied by a change in inner self and outer deeds; that even though we aren't declared righteous because God makes us righteous, He does begin to make us righteous. A faith that isn't followed by a change in life is a phony faith, in the eyes of the Catholic Church.

If you read the "anathemas" from the Council of Trent (an official Council of the Roman Catholic church), you'll actually get a fairly accurate view of the Reformers' position. Quoting from the section on justification, Canon IX:

"If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema"

And again from CANON XXIV:

"If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema."

These statements are considered to be infallible truths according to official Roman Catholic doctrine. I encourage you to compare these statements to Scripture. Eph 2:8-10 may be a good starting point:

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

I might also suggest Rom 3-4, Gal 2:15-3:29, and Phil 3:2-11.

Let's not leave out what the Council of Trent said about the importance of faith:

CHAPTER III.
Who are justified through Christ.

But, though He died for all, yet do not all receive the benefit of His death, but those only unto whom the merit of His passion is communicated. For as in truth men, if they were not born propagated of the seed of Adam, would not be born unjust,-seeing that, by that propagation, they contract through him, when they are conceived, injustice as their own,-so, if they were not born again in Christ, they never would be justified; seeing that, in that new birth, there is bestowed upon them, through the merit of His passion, the grace whereby they are made just. For this benefit the apostle exhorts us, evermore to give thanks to the Father, who hath made us worthy to be partakers of the lot of the saints in light, and hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the Kingdom of the Son of his love, in whom we have redemption, and remission of sins.

And:

CHAPTER VIII.
In what manner it is to be understood, that the impious is justified by faith, and gratuitously.

And whereas the Apostle saith, that man is justified by faith and freely, those words are to be understood in that sense which the perpetual consent of the Catholic Church hath held and expressed; to wit, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation, and the root of all Justification; without which it is impossible to please God, and to come unto the fellowship of His sons: but we are therefore said to be justified freely, because that none of those things which precede justification-whether faith or works-merit the grace itself of justification. For, if it be a grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the same Apostle says, grace is no more grace.

CANON I.-If any one saith, that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature, or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema.

From a Protestant perspective, there certainly have been and still are Roman Catholics who are Christians, trusting in Christ's goodness alone (not any internal merit) for salvation. These are persons who do not know the official theology of the church, those who do not understand the implications of the official theology, and those who do not believe the official theology.

Well as one who knows the official theology of the Church and understands the implications of the official theology and believes the official theology, I would assume you mean I am not saved. Again, a common misunderstanding is that we earn salvation. I cooperate with God's grace; there's no internal merit that will accord me salvation.
As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13)."

Again, I'm not posting this to debate. I'm trying to answer the question of the thread and thought I'd respond to this particular post to clear up as not to leave anyone with the impression that FAITH isn't important to a Catholic Christian.

 

[undead1]

Today at 05:54 AM jukesk9 said this in Post #16 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=666695#post666695)
Again, I'm not posting this to debate. I'm trying to answer the question of the thread and thought I'd respond to this particular post to clear up as not to leave anyone with the impression that FAITH isn't important to a Catholic Christian.

I accept this. I think the argument over faith versus no faith, or faith versus works, has little merit in it.

I think Luther misled people to an extent by his proclamation of "faith alone". The bible does not know of any "faith alone", but only faith which is productive of works. The real argument is not over dogma.

The more important argument or disagreement is what are "the works of faith", and does the nature of the faith inculcated by Catholism lead to "works of faith" and is the Catholic faith content with legalistic works. Many get that impression.

But if so, then such a faith is dead faith and cannot save, as James says. Because, as Paul says, legalistic works are "rubbish" etc.

 

[jukesk9]

Today at 05:12 AM undead said this in Post #17

I accept this. I think the argument over faith versus no faith, or faith versus works, has little merit in it.

I think Luther misled people to an extent by his proclamation of "faith alone". The bible does not know of any "faith alone", but only faith which is productive of works. The real argument is not over dogma.

The more important argument or disagreement is what are "the works of faith", and does the nature of the faith inculcated by Catholism lead to "works of faith" and is the Catholic faith content with legalistic works. Many get that impression.

But if so, then such a faith is dead faith and cannot save, as James says. Because, as Paul says, legalistic works are "rubbish" etc.

Well thank you.  And your last paragraph is exactly what the Catholic Church teaches.  This was made very clear by the Council of Trent.

 

[undead1]

Nevertheless, there are many serious problems with the Council of Trent, and it is unclear whether the Council of Trent actually teaches the same as you:

For instance, the following are ludicrous:


Canon XXIV. If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema

Canon XXX. In any one saith, that, after the grace of Justification has been
received, to every penitent sinner guilt is remitted, and the debt of eternal punishment is blotted out in such wise, that there remains not any debt of temporal punishment to be discharged either in this world, or in the next in Purgatory, before entrance to the kingdom of heaven can be opened (to him); let him be anathema.

Canon XXXIII. If any one saith, that, by the Catholic doctrine touching Justification, by this holy Synod set forth in this present decree, the glory of God, or the merits of our Lord Jesus Christ are in any way derogated from, and not rather that the truth of our faith, and the glory in fine of God and of Jesus Christ are rendered (more) illustrious; let him be anathema.

Justification is a completed work. Thus the thief on the cross went to heaven, that very day, without suffering purgatory or anything else, as the first man saved through faith in Christ.

The problem with "faith alone" is that it is ambiguous. If it means faith without works, it is false. If it means fully justified by faith, such that nothing more (i.e. no works of men) are needed to complete justification, then it is true. Justification is an instantaneous once only event which occurs when a person believes. Upon baptism he becomes a member of the church. Forgiveness is obtained through the merit of Christ alone.

But salvation will only be given to those who are worthy of it, and have used their justification to increase their talents.

 

[ancientofdays33]

Catholics call the pope "holy father" and priests "father" just look into your bible about these two things and you will have your answer.
Look also into your readings about who has the authority to forgive sins.
Check also the lineage of peter whom they say the popes are descended from. PROVE IT>
James
Servent to all