What am I missing?

[Obsis]

So. I have found that it's time to do another one of those "let's look at the world again and see if anything we know is wrong" times. And since it's silly to only ask such things of people you already know, I thought I'd throw this one in here as well.

I'm currently a non-believer in all things spiritual, magical and divine. And since I tend to get people saying (online, anyways, more on that later) that this means I'm missing something in my life, I figured I'd give you people a chance to tell me what that is.

So, here's some things I'm not missing:

- Happiness (because my life is pretty awesome)
- Community (I know plenty of people to hang around with, none of them religious)
- Understanding of the universe (I have a pretty good science education, so I can answer most questions without having to resort to gods and magic)
- Purpose and meaning (because I can make my own just fine)

Here's some things I don't have:

- Fear of death (I'd be terrified of eternal life on the other hand... now there is a scary thought)
- Fear of hell (because it makes no sense conceptually. And if it did, I'd be just as scared of heaven; because see previous entry)



So. Giving the above, is there anything I'm missing out on? I certainly don't feel like I'm missing anything and none of the answers I've gotten so far have been convincing, but I figured I'd give some more people a chance.

 

[dcalling]

I was an atheist before and almost like you. We are actually similar in most of the thoughts.

I think you are missing the love of God, else you will want to have a eternal life instead of terrified of it With that Love, nothing will terrify you any more.

 

[food4thought]

I guess the main thing a nonbeliever misses is communion with the perfect Being, God. To know the love that God has for you, to know the forgiveness He offers through faith in Christ, to know the touch of His Spirit on yours, to know the wisdom and guidance of His Spirit in your daily life, to experience the transformation of your flaws as His Spirit works in your heart and mind over time to produce in you a better character, to know that eternal life is not something to be feared, but embraced with joy in the presence of this good and wonderful God.

Can I ask you why you fear eternal life?

 

[cloudyday2]

You didn't mention a family. Most people think marriage and parenthood are important.

 

[Obsis]

I do have a family, actually We're not married, but we do have a kid and it's been great since the start.

As to why I fear eternal life, the short version is that I've been blessed/cursed with a basic understanding of psychology and a sense of scale... I don't think there's any activity I could think of that I would enjoy for more than a thousand years, let alone a million, let alone until the heat death of the universe... let alone the realisation at after the heat death of the universe my eternal life still hasn't even surpassed its first moment.

 

[Brianlear]

First of all, welcome. You seem smart and I like your style You wouldn't be posting here if you didn't know deep down that you are missing something. And so here you are, looking, but posing as someone who already has everything, just issuing a little "challenge". Don't worry. We know you are searching. You are welcome here. You have something valuable to bring to the table. You have a path. There is a reason you exist. That's what you are missing. It is not a coincidence that your search has led you to posting on a website about God. We have all felt the fear you have about eternity. It's a long time. But I've had a few moments of perfect peace and in those moments, I wouldn't have hesitated to spend the rest of eternity in that place. The crazy part is that we actually will. It shifts your whole perspective. Your friends and family will look at you like you are crazy. You'll be afraid that you are losing your self. But it is precisely in that loss that you really find out what is going on "behind the scenes". I would recommend that you stick around. Look into the possibility that God is really here with us, wrestle with it. God likes it when people wrestle with him. Ask him to reveal himself to you and then be patient. You don't have to commit to anything. It's not a contract you sign. But I was like you, and my advice would be to stick this out. Learn the story and see how it sounds to you. One of the problems with christianity is that it always comes couched in a language that is absurdly difficult to unpack and understand, and occasionally just wrong. I wouldn't even pretend for a moment that I could "get you" to believe anything. The only thing I will say is that I think the story about God coming to Earth as a human being is completely compatible with science and I also believe the universe is 6 billion years old and began with the big bang. I believe in God as the author of the universe, start to finish. I'm also trained in the sciences and I'd be happy to talk more. Lemme know if you have any questions!

 

[oi_antz]

I do have a family, actually We're not married, but we do have a kid and it's been great since the start.

As to why I fear eternal life, the short version is that I've been blessed/cursed with a basic understanding of psychology and a sense of scale... I don't think there's any activity I could think of that I would enjoy for more than a thousand years, let alone a million, let alone until the heat death of the universe... let alone the realisation at after the heat death of the universe my eternal life still hasn't even surpassed its first moment.

You could benefit from some more imagination

 

[Obsis]

You wouldn't be posting here if you didn't know deep down that you are missing something.

Uh, like I said in my opening post, I don't feel like I'm missing anything. It's only other people claiming I'm missing something. This makes the rest of the post basically irrelevant.

You could benefit from some more imagination

Well if you know of any hobbies that could keep me entertained for a thousand years, do tell. I'd love to at least get a headstart on them before I die

 

[oi_antz]

Well if you know of any hobbies that could keep me entertained for a thousand years, do tell. I'd love to at least get a headstart on them before I die

Why would you need to spend a thousand years doing the same one thing? Are you afraid you couldn't afford a career change?

 

[Obsis]

Why would you need to spend a thousand years doing the same one thing? Are you afraid you couldn't afford a career change?

I would run out of things to do pretty quickly. After a few million years, I think even my pretty big imagination would start running out of options.

It's not that I'm afraid of carreer change, it's that even if I change carreers every decade, I'd probably have done every carreer that exists in the universe before even the Sun gives out; and then I'd still have infinite time left to find something to do with.

 

[oi_antz]

I would run out of things to do pretty quickly. After a few million years, I think even my pretty big imagination would start running out of options.

It's not that I'm afraid of carreer change, it's that even if I change carreers every decade, I'd probably have done every carreer that exists in the universe before even the Sun gives out; and then I'd still have infinite time left to find something to do with.

Why do you put this limit on your imagination? (not a rhetorical question, it would be good to understand this).

 

[cloudyday2]

Do you meditate? Some people enjoy that.

 

[Obsis]

Why do you put this limit on your imagination? (not a rhetorical question, it would be good to understand this).

There's a bunch of answers to this question. The one that probably leads to the least amount of debate (it does seem to sidetrack the thread a bit) is probably a more formal kind of proof.

My brain can only interpret a finite number of different impulses at once, so by definition I will run out of new experiences at some point. From there on out, it's just repetition of things you've done before. The problem with "eternity" is that, no matter how much stuff you come up with to fill it with, you can never begin to actually fill it.

Do you meditate? Some people enjoy that.

Not really. I do introspection on issues, but that's usually while I'm doing something that doesn't require much attention (like going to work, or doing the dishes) and when I need to relax I usually play videogames. I tried meditation, but it tends to quickly devolve into "I'm wasting my time" and that thought is hard to get rid of.

 

[oi_antz]

There's a bunch of answers to this question. The one that probably leads to the least amount of debate (it does seem to sidetrack the thread a bit) is probably a more formal kind of proof.

My brain can only interpret a finite number of different impulses at once, so by definition I will run out of new experiences at some point. From there on out, it's just repetition of things you've done before. The problem with "eternity" is that, no matter how much stuff you come up with to fill it with, you can never begin to actually fill it.

Yes, sorry to sidetrack your thread, I will leave it here, but just point out that the resurrected body could have a different biology than the perishing body, and that infinity can never run out of "stuff". You are clearly a doer. That is a state of mind that is subject to change too.

 

[paul1149]

People come into the Kingdom for various reasons. Some come in through fear of hell, or fear of facing a righteous God. Some come in because of need. They may need a healing, or a loved one may be dying, or they may find themselves in a dangerous situation. They need the power of God to survive or to have their loved ones survive. They realize their own inadequacies and so they seek Him.

Some come in because they, uninvited, perhaps even unwanted, suddenly experience the power of God first-hand. Witness the Philippian jailer in Acts 16, who saw an earthquake loose his two prisoners from his most secure cell.

And some come in because they are convicted on moral grounds. They are honest enough to be aware their own moral flaws, and see their deep need of forgiveness and cleansing.

There's another reason to enter the Kingdom: love. Imagine your post being written by a teen boy who was supremely happy with his cars, computers and sports, and simply saw no need to get involved with girls. Logically it all makes complete sense to his mind, and you'd be pretty foolish to argue with him on it. He's happy and you can't fault that. But he simply doesn’t know what He's missing – until one day that special someone crosses his path and a whole new world opens up to him.

I don’t know where you are in that continuum, but anyone who is "terrified" of living forever simply has not been opened to the reality of what eternal life is. He is projecting his experience with this flawed life into eternity, but that paradigm is wholly and completely inadequate.

If there's a possibility that your current perspective might not be the be-all, end-all, that there just might be something else out there to consider, then if I were in your shoes I would go over the list and find where you fit in. Is it that you are not aware of your moral imperfection? Or have you been so satisfied with the things of this life that looking for something deeper and more lasting is something you've never felt a need to do?

Go to the parable of the sower and see where you fit in. The seed is always top quality, it's the condition of the soil that causes the problems.

 

[Obsis]

Yes, sorry to sidetrack your thread, I will leave it here, but just point out that the resurrected body could have a different biology than the perishing body, and that infinity can never run out of "stuff". You are clearly a doer. That is a state of mind that is subject to change too.

If that much would change, I doubt it would still be reasonable to call this new thing "me". This is, I guess, another problem with the concept of life after death. But that's more about going into what it means to be "you". (Which is also a sidetrack )

Anyway. Thanks for the input so far If there's anything else, I'd like to hear. Otherwise I'll sacrifice the thread to more sidetracks.

 

[oi_antz]

If that much would change, I doubt it would still be reasonable to call this new thing "me". This is, I guess, another problem with the concept of life after death. But that's more about going into what it means to be "you". (Which is also a sidetrack )

Anyway. Thanks for the input so far If there's anything else, I'd like to hear. Otherwise I'll sacrifice the thread to more sidetracks.

Well, I don't feel the need to accuse you of needing something else just yet. I will keep it in mind though. You have made an interesting point about the self, a topic I have wondered about a little bit but not discussed. Since our physiology and psychology is constantly changing, how do we know we are the same person today as we were yesterday? This is a weird and fanciful idea, of course stretching the bounds of reality. But it's fair to imagine that a perfect body would indeed produce a very different person than a corruptible body would. I don't know if that is to say that a person with an incorruptible body would not choose to sin. I suppose if you did consider the potential reality of the promises God has made, you could gain an understanding that is otherwise missing. But I don't mean to point the finger.

 

[Obsis]

Ok, for the record (since I'm seeing more new posters reacting to the 'fear of eternal life' thing)... I don't actually fear eternal life because I don't think there is such a thing. I would fear it conceptually if I believed in it, but I don't. I hope this was clear from my initial post.

While I don't mind discussing hypotheticals, it should be noted that I don't go about my life fearing living forever anymore than I go about my life fearing that santa will bring me coal...

 

[ToBeBlessed]

So. I have found that it's time to do another one of those "let's look at the world again and see if anything we know is wrong" times. And since it's silly to only ask such things of people you already know, I thought I'd throw this one in here as well.

I'm currently a non-believer in all things spiritual, magical and divine. And since I tend to get people saying (online, anyways, more on that later) that this means I'm missing something in my life, I figured I'd give you people a chance to tell me what that is.

So, here's some things I'm not missing:

- Happiness (because my life is pretty awesome)
- Community (I know plenty of people to hang around with, none of them religious)
- Understanding of the universe (I have a pretty good science education, so I can answer most questions without having to resort to gods and magic)
- Purpose and meaning (because I can make my own just fine)

Here's some things I don't have:

- Fear of death (I'd be terrified of eternal life on the other hand... now there is a scary thought)
- Fear of hell (because it makes no sense conceptually. And if it did, I'd be just as scared of heaven; because see previous entry)



So. Giving the above, is there anything I'm missing out on? I certainly don't feel like I'm missing anything and none of the answers I've gotten so far have been convincing, but I figured I'd give some more people a chance.

First. No matter who you know or how happy they make you, people will always let you down. They do not know your heart, so they cannot be there for you perfectly. Jesus offers us that. He promises us that and while we are here on earth He is our best friend. Spiritually this is hard to understand.

Second. If you base what you believe eternity is on what we have here on earth, all of us would wonder what we may be doing for eternity. However, the Word tells us we will be in perfection with Jesus Christ. Could this get boring? I know how much Jesus loves us. He will take care of His own. I know I will not be bored.

I hope you find what you are looking for.

 

[cloudyday2]

Not really. I do introspection on issues, but that's usually while I'm doing something that doesn't require much attention (like going to work, or doing the dishes) and when I need to relax I usually play videogames. I tried meditation, but it tends to quickly devolve into "I'm wasting my time" and that thought is hard to get rid of.

I struggle with meditation too. I've been trying various methods for almost a year, and I haven't noticed reaching a meditative state. My meditation exercises are only 5 or 10 minutes, because it feels like such a waste of time.

But sometimes I feel more focused on the important things after I try to meditate. Also, it might be that the people like me who have a lot of difficulty meditating are also the people that have the most to gain by it. (That's my hope anyway. )

Here is a link on meditation. I'm not sure if it has any information you can use:
Meditation and Psychiatry