What About This?

[madison1101]

I have a concern that may or may not sound stupid, but I am desperate to stay sober, yet teetering due to a lot of factors. What about vanilla extract? I made cupcakes for my granddaughter's birthday party and bought some for the frosting. I read the contents and it is 35% alcohol. I use a teaspoon of it in a normal recipe, but I am curious none-the-less.

Trish

 

[TheMainException]

So...in each cupcake, there is 35% of one drop of vanilla extract...if that. What this compulsion with staying sober has done for you is to make everything a huge deal. Think about it...is that using to you? Is that abuse? Is that breaking something? Besides...alcohol dries quickly and evaporates. It leaves the frosting quickly. I'd imagine that it would drop from 35 to 25% total. So...if you feel ANYTHING, it's in your head, not the cupcake.

Please don't let this sound harsh or mean....I pray it doesn't. I just think you must be doing something wrong or missing something. You're working so hard, sweating with all the pressure and thoughts. You need to remember your choice and slam the book. Tell the jury to go home and that you are the judge. Close that book and walk away with the sentence of "NO." Period. Say with confidence. Believe it with your heart. Think it with vigor. Let it echo in your home, heart, and mind. Let your spirit finally grow strong again. Stronger than ever before.

 

[BobW188]

I'd throw the stuff out; but M. E.'s point is well taken. That stuff had probably evaporated before it went on the cake.
I remember, a couple of years into sobriety, doing a CPR requalification and having to point out after the fact to the nurse-instructor that, had some of us known that the cloths we used to wipe the dummy's mouth - the cpr dummy, not yours truly - had been saturated in alcohol instead of hydrogen peroxide, we might have refused to participate. When oh when will people learn that the word "alcohol" should never be in small print on a label and that the stuff should never be used in an open setting like that class where a suitable substitute is available?

Keep in mind, M. E., that Trish and I are in a program that recommends total abstinence, do not use mouthwashes containing alcohol, and never take over-the-counter meds with the slightest trace of the stuff. I think if you look back on the recent past you'll see times where you also were "working so hard, sweating with all the pressure and thoughts." It may seem extreme to you; but as one of the better jail sergeants I worked with used to say, "It ain't paranoia if you're really being persecuted."
And, just in case there's any doubt, neither do I speak harshly. Keep hangin' in there!

 

[TheMainException]

And if you REALLY don't want to deal with it the alcohol in the vanilla...here's a tip I learned from drug extractions...pour the extract into a bowl and let it sit for 24 hours. This extract will be much closer to alcohol free and more potent (may even need to use less for you next recipe, so be careful).

If AA and the big book didn't work so well...I'd have a few things to say about nit picking, but since it seems close to effective if not a miracle in itself, I'll keep my mouth shut...can't knock it if I haven't tried it....always said it about drugs, might as well say it here.

 

[madison1101]

So...in each cupcake, there is 35% of one drop of vanilla extract...if that. What this compulsion with staying sober has done for you is to make everything a huge deal. Think about it...is that using to you? Is that abuse? Is that breaking something? Besides...alcohol dries quickly and evaporates. It leaves the frosting quickly. I'd imagine that it would drop from 35 to 25% total. So...if you feel ANYTHING, it's in your head, not the cupcake.

Please don't let this sound harsh or mean....I pray it doesn't. I just think you must be doing something wrong or missing something. You're working so hard, sweating with all the pressure and thoughts. You need to remember your choice and slam the book. Tell the jury to go home and that you are the judge. Close that book and walk away with the sentence of "NO." Period. Say with confidence. Believe it with your heart. Think it with vigor. Let it echo in your home, heart, and mind. Let your spirit finally grow strong again. Stronger than ever before.

I appreciate your concern and feedback, but you truly do not understand the addictive nature of some people's brains, nor do you understand that I have been in outpatient treatment for my alcoholism in two different treatment facilities for six months, learning all I must know, and getting totally honest about things for the first time in all of the 20 years I have been in therapy and AA.

It was not until October that I realized that I was using Listerine, in total defiance of the guidance I had been given by previous old timers in AA. Alcohol in mouthwash can enter the bloodstream through the mucous membranes in the mouth. The slightest amount of alcohol is all my crazy alcoholic brain needs.

I also learned a lot about the brain chemistry of alcoholics and addicts, and know that the tiniest bit of alcohol can trigger my alcoholic brain to craving more and more. This is why I had the trouble I had with the pain killers. My psychiatrist was adament about my use of pain killers when I explained to him that I cannot take NSAIDS, or anti-inflammatories for most pain, due to ulcers and gastric bypass surgery. So, sometimes I must use narcotics, but must be extremely honest and careful when on them.

Unfortunately, I do not see you putting total abstinence as a priority in your recovery. I don't take ambien because of its addictive qualities, yet you do. My psychiatrist would never prescribe that for me, nor would my family doctor, because of my risk of relapsing.

I supposed you have not had enough yet, and therefore, you lack a healthy fear of the alcohol, and the consequences that go with heavy alcoholic drinking.

I can't play with this stuff, no matter how miniscual it may seem to you. I have a Pandora's box in my life that gets opened by the slightest triggers, and even when I am without alcohol, I am capable of still behaving poorly.

Trish

 

[madison1101]

I'd throw the stuff out; but M. E.'s point is well taken. That stuff had probably evaporated before it went on the cake.
I remember, a couple of years into sobriety, doing a CPR requalification and having to point out after the fact to the nurse-instructor that, had some of us known that the cloths we used to wipe the dummy's mouth - the cpr dummy, not yours truly - had been saturated in alcohol instead of hydrogen peroxide, we might have refused to participate. When oh when will people learn that the word "alcohol" should never be in small print on a label and that the stuff should never be used in an open setting like that class where a suitable substitute is available?

Keep in mind, M. E., that Trish and I are in a program that recommends total abstinence, do not use mouthwashes containing alcohol, and never take over-the-counter meds with the slightest trace of the stuff. I think if you look back on the recent past you'll see times where you also were "working so hard, sweating with all the pressure and thoughts." It may seem extreme to you; but as one of the better jail sergeants I worked with used to say, "It ain't paranoia if you're really being persecuted."
And, just in case there's any doubt, neither do I speak harshly. Keep hangin' in there!

Your post reminds me of Kitty Dukakis. Remember when she struggled with alcohol, and drank the rubbing alcohol? I vividly remember arguing with my therapist about how I was not as bad as she was back then, because I never drank rubbing alcohol. He laughed and said, I would have probably injected it in my veins at some point. I did read her book, and was in awe of her honesty. I always wondered how she was doing these days.

Thanks for taking me back.

Trish

 

[TheMainException]

Had enough of what? Enough alcohol? Time? Pain? Addiction? No, I haven't. I'm young. Maybe it's reversible. Maybe I've got a power in my veins. Maybe I'm special. I don't think those things can only apply to me. Which is why I feel as though something is missing...although I've got no clue as to what, so do what's working for you. But really, I think the evaporation method would work fine enough that there wouldn't be any alcohol left and any that would be left would leave as you prepared the frosting and set out the cup cakes. Can't really do that with listerine...it's the thing that kills the bacteria.

As far as the ambien goes...what else am I to do? I've been on sleeping meds for over 2 years...I want out. I want off of them. Ambien is a way to do this. Once I make it through this and get off of it, I'll be in a much better place. I've been able to block the external problems by keeping all other substances out of the house while on ambien (minus that bottle of DXM that disappeared on its own, thank Jesus).

Some of it seems crazy to me guys...staying away from rubbing alcohol and vanilla extract...boggles my mind...but I know I'll see the truth of this in action within a few years as I go into addiction counseling. (Or maybe I'll just watch God snatch the addiction from their very bodies...or maybe both, who knows).

 

[madison1101]

Had enough of what? Enough alcohol? Time? Pain? Addiction? No, I haven't. I'm young. Maybe it's reversible. Maybe I've got a power in my veins. Maybe I'm special. I don't think those things can only apply to me. Which is why I feel as though something is missing...although I've got no clue as to what, so do what's working for you. But really, I think the evaporation method would work fine enough that there wouldn't be any alcohol left and any that would be left would leave as you prepared the frosting and set out the cup cakes. Can't really do that with listerine...it's the thing that kills the bacteria.

As far as the ambien goes...what else am I to do? I've been on sleeping meds for over 2 years...I want out. I want off of them. Ambien is a way to do this. Once I make it through this and get off of it, I'll be in a much better place. I've been able to block the external problems by keeping all other substances out of the house while on ambien (minus that bottle of DXM that disappeared on its own, thank Jesus).

Some of it seems crazy to me guys...staying away from rubbing alcohol and vanilla extract...boggles my mind...but I know I'll see the truth of this in action within a few years as I go into addiction counseling. (Or maybe I'll just watch God snatch the addiction from their very bodies...or maybe both, who knows).

Are you planning a career in addictions counseling? How do you plan to tell your clients to overcome their addictions when you have not found your answer yourself? You are not convinced you need to attend support like AA or work the program. You are pooh-poohing the need to totally abstain from all alcohol. Physician heal thyself comes to mind.

 

[BlessEwe]

but I know I'll see the truth of this in action within a few years as I go into addiction counseling. (Or maybe I'll just watch God snatch the addiction from their very bodies...or maybe both, who knows).

Addiction Counseling will tell you "Not" to have the slightest amount of alcohol, or drugs that may trigger the subconscious. Its like putting a treat on a dogs nose and telling him he can't have it, ( evaporated or not ). Why should someone put themselves into that position if they can avoid it.

Someone like Trish who has been very open about her struggles needs support with her questions, which are very legitimate ones and concerns.

There are counselors in the addiction field who never had a problem with substances. The key is not to be judgmental, and have empathy even when we don't understand. ( Actually this is one of the questions for the state board exam).

TheMainException: What this compulsion with staying sober has done for you is to make everything a huge deal. Think about it...is that using to you?

This is a disease, just like lets say diabetes. A Diabetic would be having the same kind of questions for sugar wouldn't they? In order for the Diabetic not to have a reaction in the blood, don't they need to know about everything they consume into their body?

This is not a compulsion, but a very strong desire to stay alive and sober. I am Proud of you Trish.

madison1101:
Unfortunately, I do not see you putting total abstinence as a priority in your recovery. I don't take ambien because of its addictive qualities, yet you do. My psychiatrist would never prescribe that for me, nor would my family doctor, because of my risk of relapsing.

Many in the programs take this medication, as long as the prescribing doctor knows of the patients history of drug abuse. My doctor may, I am not sure. Some doctors even give benzo's and other narcotics ( its a patient to patient thing).



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[TheMainException]

In your mind, yes, it sounds like I'm "poo-poohing" the need for total abstinence, but the thing is...I believe I totally ought to stay away from things like alcohol, ambien, cough medicine, etc. I KNOW I do. But I need ambien and as long as I can behave myself, it's okay. But staying away from alcohol wipes is just something I can't comprehend because by the time the person has placed their mouth upon the dummies', the alcohol is gone. It's not that I don't have empathy, don't think that AA works, don't think that support groups work, am judging anyone or think that I don't have an answer. I DO HAVE THE ANSWER. I have the solution.

Trish, I am not downing what is working for you. Surely, I cannot say I understand yet. But like I said, if it's working for you, keep going. I often sound judgmental via forums because I am a very cut and dry person in real life...I'm blunt and cut to the point (when I'm not creating elaborate metaphors). I am still learning. Just because I do not need AA's ways or a support group does not mean that I don't think it works (it does and it's a near miracle, it truly is...for something to last as long as AA has and have so many people not drinking their wages is a miracle and I know god works through AA NO DOUBT). I will suggest AA, support groups, NA, etc. But my "answer" is not in those things. It is purely in God. Those things might be a catalyst, but I think my counseling will be different from most other counseling (Why? I've been told so by a number of different people who have prophesied over me...number is important...one or two is nothing, but when you start getting into double digits, I think there's something in that...random people, newly met people, old friends...so many people are saying it).

I'm sorry for having sounded judgmental. I don't ever want to come across this way. The things I say are hard to clarify and say correctly because even in my own head I'm not always sure what's going on and how to say things without coming across as completely ignorant and cruel and when I hear people's responses later and I reread my words, I feel bad, but still can't come up with a good substitute or explanation for what I said.

Your way works, AA's way works. I just can't help thinking that there is a better way. there must be....and although right now my answer is in raw, molten lava form inside my brain, it will harden and its form will be seen as Truth and then I will see all the pieces together as they ought to be.

My apologies once more Trish.

 

[BlessEwe]

Your way works, AA's way works. I just can't help thinking that there is a better way.

AA works because we learn who is in control, and its not us. Its God, and for me it is Jesus. A spiritual awaking of the deep sleep of denial, and awakening I was not stronger than the obsession of addiction. The ability to let go and let God for once in my life. Serenity of reaching out for help, and allowing others in to help.

God Bless

My apologies once more Trish.

Proud of you sista