What about the rest of us?

[Fizzywig]

Why ?
What do you want ?
What's your goal ?

I'm not actually wanting for anything.

But thanks anyway.

 

[Robban]

Deliberate typo demonstrating my warped sense of humour. In fact "cloud".........

"Yes, we have no bananas..........."

 

[Fizzywig]

"Yes, we have no bananas..........."

Now you are just being silly.............

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE "nightflight, post: 69826237, member: 142704"]Those of us who are screw ups, thrown about by the waves of our passions, incorrigible, filled with bitterness and even hate; what is to come of us? We who may have an interest in spiritual things, aware of a transcending reality and goodness, but not only fail to reach it, but fail to even try. Are we doomed to whatever hell your various faiths have? Is God,... going to save us anyway? Or is it the pit for us?
We of the Bad want to know. QUOTE end

"... an interest..." in what? truth? spiritual things?
"...aware of a transcending reality and goodness.."
"... but fail to even try ." ???
"Are we doomed..." mostly, yes. (the whole world is under sentence of destruction)
"Is God ... going to save us..." some, yes.
"or... the pit..." most, yes.

"...want to know." why ? for Hope? Good if so. for salvation? Good, for those saved.

Want Good ? or "...the pit..." ? "Choose TODAY".

 

[Robban]

Now you are just being silly.............

I would not say that, I was genuinly wondering what a "clod" was,

Never mind.

 

[Fizzywig]

I would not say that, I was genuinly wondering what a "clod" was,

Never mind.

Clod is English slang for a stupid person.

 

[Robban]

Clod is English slang for a stupid person.

On gordredeemed s explanation of "enlightenment", it reminded me of something my dear mother of blessed memory recited a few times,
that is why I asked him if it came from there, or at least inspired by it.

So who you are referring to, I don't know.

Again, never mind.

 

[Albion]

Well, there you go. The "offer" is made. Thus "chosen before the foundation of the world" (NT, Ephesians ) which seems so important to Calvinists, is effectively rejected in favour of our choosing of God. Thus, from a Pure Land perspective, self power.

You seem to be seizing upon anything that you can represent as proving your point, but I'm not seeing the same idea that you apparently are seeing.

For one thing, Calvinism =/= Christianity. And for another, the hand of God reaching out to Man is precisely what Christianity is all about and what people say distinguishes Christianity from other faiths. Yes, that is correct.

 

[ananda]

Those of us who are screw ups, thrown about by the waves of our passions, incorrigible, filled with bitterness and even hate; what is to come of us? We who may have an interest in spiritual things, aware of a transcending reality and goodness, but not only fail to reach it, but fail to even try. Are we doomed to whatever hell your various faiths have? Is God, Brahma, Allah, Amida going to save us anyway? Or is it the pit for us?

We of the Bad want to know.

If you've tried your best, yet fail to reach the highest goals in (early) Buddhism (non-Mahayana/Zen/Tibetan/Vajrayana), you can expect to receive fruits equal to your efforts (kamma).

Generally speaking, those who achieve at least a skillful lifestyle are expected to be reborn in the lower heavens as a lower-level deity, or on earth as a human. Those who achieve both a skillful lifestyle and develop the brahma-viharas (state of heart, e.g. loving-kindness, compassion, empathetic joy, equanimity) can expect to be reborn in one of the middle-level heavens, with a corresponding increase in lifespan, glory, and power compared to those in the lower heavens. Finally, those who achieve a skillful lifestyle, the brahma-viharas, and advanced states of mind can expect to be reborn in the higher-level heavens.

Those of a moderately negative personality and a corresponding unskillful lifestyle might expect to be reborn in the animal or ghostly realms. Those of a heavily negative personality and lifestyle will find themselves in the hellish realms.

Just as life on earth is not eternal, none of these heavens or hells are eternal either.

Those who achieve the highest goal of nibbana leave this merry-go-round.

 

[gord44]

If you've tried your best, yet fail to reach the highest goals in (early) Buddhism (non-Mahayana/Zen/Tibetan/Vajrayana), you can expect to receive fruits equal to your efforts (kamma). You can probably expect to be reborn in either the human realm, or in the lower heavens as a lower-ranked deity.

Generally speaking, those who achieve at least a moral lifestyle are expected to be reborn in the lower heavens as a lower-level deity, or on earth as a human. Those who achieve both a moral lifestyle and develop the brahma-viharas (state of heart, e.g. loving-kindness, compassion, empathetic joy, equanimity) can expect to be reborn in one of the middle-level heavens, with a corresponding increase in lifespan, glory, and power compared to those in the lower heavens. Finally, those who achieve a moral lifestyle, the brahma-viharas, and advanced states of mind can expect to be reborn in the higher-level heavens. None of these heavens are eternal, just like none of the hellish-states are eternal.

Those who achieve the highest goal of nibbana leave this merry-go-round.

Cool. What kinda of Buddhism are you into good sir?

 

[ananda]

Cool. What kinda of Buddhism are you into good sir?

I follow Kammatthana-Theravada. Yourself?

 

[gord44]

I follow Kammatthana-Theravada. Yourself?

Pureland. Always like to learn more about other paths. What kinda of practice do you do?

 

[ananda]

Pureland. Always like to learn more about other paths. What kinda of practice do you do?

That's a broad question Essentially:

• I practice the Eightfold Path, under the idea that Self-development brings personally observable results.
• It seems reasonable to me that I would reap exactly what I put in (kamma), and I don't expect or have reason to believe that this Law is modifiable by others. So, no reliance on or faith in "intermediaries", whether "prophets", priests, savior-like figures, or other hierarchies. Essentially, "Be a light unto yourself" - Lord Buddha, Dhammapada.
• Personal practice results in personal knowledge; no need for blind faith and belief in unverifiable doctrines.

I practice jhana meditation, and I am currently working on establishing (stablizing) the first jhana.

Yourself?

 

[Fizzywig]

You seem to be seizing upon anything that you can represent as proving your point, but I'm not seeing the same idea that you apparently are seeing.

For one thing, Calvinism =/= Christianity. And for another, the hand of God reaching out to Man is precisely what Christianity is all about and what people say distinguishes Christianity from other faiths. Yes, that is correct.

I am using Christian examples simply because I am on a Christian forum.

My point is that it is not about free will and our exercise of it.

If you see God "reaching out his hand", fair enough. But really, it does not distinguish Christianity at all.

 

[Fizzywig]

On gordredeemed s explanation of "enlightenment", it reminded me of something my dear mother of blessed memory recited a few times,
that is why I asked him if it came from there, or at least inspired by it.

So who you are referring to, I don't know.

Again, never mind.

I was just reciting the first line of the Wordsworth "Daffodils" poem.....

"I wandered lonely as a cloud" (clod)

Sorry, I assumed as you referenced it you knew it.

 

[Fizzywig]

It seems reasonable to me that I would reap exactly what I put in (kamma), and I don't expect or have reason to believe that this Law is modifiable by others.

There is an interesting essay on "Kamma and its fruit" by the Theravada Elder, Nyanaponika Thera.

Easily found on the Accesstoinsight website.

 

[ananda]

There is an interesting essay on "Kamma and its fruit" by the Theravada Elder, Nyanaponika Thera.

Easily found on the Accesstoinsight website.

I agree with Ven. Nyanaponika's assessment. An individual's kamma can be modified by himself through application of his will. That's the central point behind things like meditation - to break that cycle.

I do not believe one's own kamma can be modified by others (e.g. savior figures).

 

[fat wee robin]

Those of us who are screw ups, thrown about by the waves of our passions, incorrigible, filled with bitterness and even hate; what is to come of us? We who may have an interest in spiritual things, aware of a transcending reality and goodness, but not only fail to reach it, but fail to even try. Are we doomed to whatever hell your various faiths have? Is God, Brahma, Allah, Amida going to save us anyway? Or is it the pit for us?.Whatever God has in sight for you may surprise you ,as it has me .

We of the Bad want to know.

 

[Robban]

I was just reciting the first line of the Wordsworth "Daffodils" poem.....

"I wandered lonely as a cloud" (clod)

Sorry, I assumed as you referenced it you knew it.

"The precarious sea of language", is that correct?

I think you have used it a few times, not too sure though.

"Yes, we have no bananas" was my indicating there was a misunderstanding somewhere,

The old song from the twenties about a Greek grocer.

 

[gord44]

Yourself?

Just Nembutsu mainly.

Sometimes I meditate on a field of flowers for a little bit, helps with getting right with the universe and increasing my positive vibration, but mainly the Nembutsu.