What About Progressive Sanctification?

[RickReads]

I look at sanctification like I do salvation. There is a past, present and future aspect to sanctification.

I only question what you consider to be the present aspect. Let me ask you the same question.

What benefit is there to present sanctification? What do I get out of it?

 

[Psalm 27]

Heb 10:14 "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."

In Bible verses where the term sanctify appears it is always an action God is taking. The human requirement is to avoid fornication and to believe the truth. Apart from those two things it`s all God.

Verses that have been used to try and rebut me do not use the word sanctify, rather I observed that those scriptures use other terms which my critics allege to mean sanctification.

It seems that many Christians consider sanctification to be good deeds, moral behavior, advancement in knowledge of God etc. For them performance improvement is progressive sanctification.

I don`t think it`s Biblical to believe that.

I agree that it’s all of The Lord. ‘Without Me you can do nothing’ Thankyou for your exhortations the other day. They helped

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I only question what you consider to be the present aspect. Let me ask you the same question.

What benefit is there to present sanctification? What do I get out of it?

Strong's Concordance
hagiasmos: consecration, sanctification
Original Word: ἁγιασμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: hagiasmos
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-as-mos')
Definition: consecration, sanctification
Usage: the process of making or becoming holy, set apart, sanctification, holiness, consecration.

HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 38 hagiasmós (a masculine noun derived from 40 /hágios, "holy") – sanctification (the process of advancing in holiness); use of the believer being progressively transformed by the Lord into His likeness (similarity of nature). See 40 /hagios ("holy").

We are to live holy in this present life and below we read there is a past, present and future aspect to our sanctification.

1 Corinthians 1:30
“From him we are in Christ Jesus, who has become wisdom to us from God, our righteousness and sanctification and redemption.”

Hebrews 12:14
Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

Ephesians 5:25-27
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that He might present to Himself the church q]">[q]in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.

1 Thessalonians 3:12-13
to the establishing your hearts blameless in sanctification before our God and Father, in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.

1 Thessalonians 4:3 N-NMS
GRK: θεοῦ ὁ ἁγιασμὸς ὑμῶν ἀπέχεσθαι
NAS: of God, your sanctification; [that is], that you abstain
KJV: [even] your sanctification, that ye
INT: of God the sanctification of you to abstain

1 Thessalonians 4:4 N-DMS
GRK: κτᾶσθαι ἐν ἁγιασμῷ καὶ τιμῇ
NAS: vessel in sanctification and honor,
KJV: vessel in sanctification and honour;
INT: to possess in holiness and honor

1 Thessalonians 4:7 N-DMS
GRK: ἀλλ' ἐν ἁγιασμῷ
NAS: us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification.
KJV: but unto holiness.
INT: but in sanctification

2 Thessalonians 2:13 N-DMS
GRK: σωτηρίαν ἐν ἁγιασμῷ πνεύματος καὶ
NAS: through sanctification by the Spirit
KJV: through sanctification of the Spirit
INT: salvation in sanctification of [the] Spirit and

1 Timothy 2:15 N-DMS
GRK: ἀγάπῃ καὶ ἁγιασμῷ μετὰ σωφροσύνης
NAS: and love and sanctity with self-restraint.
KJV: charity and holiness with sobriety.
INT: love and sanctification with self-restraint

Hebrews 12:14 N-AMS
GRK: καὶ τὸν ἁγιασμόν οὗ χωρὶς
NAS: with all men, and the sanctification without
KJV: all [men], and holiness, without which
INT: and the holiness which apart from

1 Peter 1:2 N-DMS
GRK: πατρός ἐν ἁγιασμῷ πνεύματος εἰς
NAS: the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit,
KJV: through sanctification of the Spirit,
INT: [the] Father by sanctification of [the] Spirit unto

hope this helps !!!

 

[RickReads]

I agree that it’s all of The Lord. ‘Without Me you can do nothing’ Thankyou for your exhortations the other day. They helped

That`s nice of you to say, I hope you find real help. Only Jesus can give you that. You need a real-life person to talk to. Keeping it all inside is poisonous in my opinion.

 

[RickReads]

Strong's Concordance
hagiasmos: consecration, sanctification
Original Word: ἁγιασμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: hagiasmos
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-as-mos')
Definition: consecration, sanctification
Usage: the process of making or becoming holy, set apart, sanctification, holiness, consecration.

HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 38 hagiasmós (a masculine noun derived from 40 /hágios, "holy") – sanctification (the process of advancing in holiness); use of the believer being progressively transformed by the Lord into His likeness (similarity of nature). See 40 /hagios ("holy").

We are to live holy in this present life and below we read there is a past, present and future aspect to our sanctification.

1 Corinthians 1:30
“From him we are in Christ Jesus, who has become wisdom to us from God, our righteousness and sanctification and redemption.”

Hebrews 12:14
Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

Ephesians 5:25-27
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that He might present to Himself the church q]">[q]in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.

1 Thessalonians 3:12-13
to the establishing your hearts blameless in sanctification before our God and Father, in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.

1 Thessalonians 4:3 N-NMS
GRK: θεοῦ ὁ ἁγιασμὸς ὑμῶν ἀπέχεσθαι
NAS: of God, your sanctification; [that is], that you abstain
KJV: [even] your sanctification, that ye
INT: of God the sanctification of you to abstain

1 Thessalonians 4:4 N-DMS
GRK: κτᾶσθαι ἐν ἁγιασμῷ καὶ τιμῇ
NAS: vessel in sanctification and honor,
KJV: vessel in sanctification and honour;
INT: to possess in holiness and honor

1 Thessalonians 4:7 N-DMS
GRK: ἀλλ' ἐν ἁγιασμῷ
NAS: us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification.
KJV: but unto holiness.
INT: but in sanctification

2 Thessalonians 2:13 N-DMS
GRK: σωτηρίαν ἐν ἁγιασμῷ πνεύματος καὶ
NAS: through sanctification by the Spirit
KJV: through sanctification of the Spirit
INT: salvation in sanctification of [the] Spirit and

1 Timothy 2:15 N-DMS
GRK: ἀγάπῃ καὶ ἁγιασμῷ μετὰ σωφροσύνης
NAS: and love and sanctity with self-restraint.
KJV: charity and holiness with sobriety.
INT: love and sanctification with self-restraint

Hebrews 12:14 N-AMS
GRK: καὶ τὸν ἁγιασμόν οὗ χωρὶς
NAS: with all men, and the sanctification without
KJV: all [men], and holiness, without which
INT: and the holiness which apart from

1 Peter 1:2 N-DMS
GRK: πατρός ἐν ἁγιασμῷ πνεύματος εἰς
NAS: the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit,
KJV: through sanctification of the Spirit,
INT: [the] Father by sanctification of [the] Spirit unto

hope this helps !!!

As I review your evidence I see the same shortcoming I have talked about throughout the discussion of this topic.

Your word definition looks strong but it is defining in terms of the progressive doctrine. Just man`s tradition nothing more. If I take that out, we are just left with the word holy, so your word definition only proves that sanctification has the same essential meaning as the word holy (i.e. the words "age" and "dispensation' are interchangeable having the same essential meaning.)

Moving onto your verses,

1 Corinthians 1:30 -> tells us that Jesus is the sanctification and by implication, I receive that benefit when I enter Christ, so I have it as soon as I am saved.

Hebrews 12:14 -> commands me to follow peace and follow sanctification. I can only follow sanctification if I already have it. Same thing as command to follow after the Spirit. We already have it and are complete in Him.

Ephesians 5:25-27 -> Yet another verse that says Christ is the one who sanctifies, cleansed is past tense not progressive.

1 Thessalonians 3:12-13 -> Here God establishes our heart in sanctification. Again, nothing I did, all God. Refers to the circumcision of the heart, only done once.

1 Thessalonians 4:3-7 -> Command to abstain from fornication. Does not sanctify but is necessary because fornication is a sin against the temple of your body.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 -> another verse establishing sanctification as an action of the Holy Spirit, still in the past tense showing it`s something a saved person already has.

1 Timothy 2:15 -> exhorts to remain in holiness but does not explain what it is or how to remain in it.

1 Peter 1:2 -> indicates sanctification leads to obedience, by implication it is salvic and happens very early.

You gave me a lot of verses but none answered my question. Nothing in the verses show me a benefit to progressive sanctification, nor do they show it to be progressive apart from the ongoing preservation of the Holy Spirit. If it`s only about being sealed till the redemption then the whole debate is just hairsplitting.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

As I review your evidence I see the same shortcoming I have talked about throughout the discussion of this topic.

Your word definition looks strong but it is defining in terms of the progressive doctrine. Just man`s tradition nothing more. If I take that out, we are just left with the word holy, so your word definition only proves that sanctification has the same essential meaning as the word holy (i.e. the words "age" and "dispensation' are interchangeable having the same essential meaning.)

Moving onto your verses,

1 Corinthians 1:30 -> tells us that Jesus is the sanctification and by implication, I receive that benefit when I enter Christ, so I have it as soon as I am saved.

Hebrews 12:14 -> commands me to follow peace and follow sanctification. I can only follow sanctification if I already have it. Same thing as command to follow after the Spirit. We already have it and are complete in Him.

Ephesians 5:25-27 -> Yet another verse that says Christ is the one who sanctifies, cleansed is past tense not progressive.

1 Thessalonians 3:12-13 -> Here God establishes our heart in sanctification. Again, nothing I did, all God. Refers to the circumcision of the heart, only done once.

1 Thessalonians 4:3-7 -> Command to abstain from fornication. Does not sanctify but is necessary because fornication is a sin against the temple of your body.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 -> another verse establishing sanctification as an action of the Holy Spirit, still in the past tense showing it`s something a saved person already has.

1 Timothy 2:15 -> exhorts to remain in holiness but does not explain what it is or how to remain in it.

1 Peter 1:2 -> indicates sanctification leads to obedience, by implication it is salvic and happens very early.

You gave me a lot of verses but none answered my question. Nothing in the verses show me a benefit to progressive sanctification, nor do they show it to be progressive apart from the ongoing preservation of the Holy Spirit. If it`s only about being sealed till the redemption then the whole debate is just hairsplitting.

why do you need a "benefit" for being Holy other than God demands it from believers ?

Be Holy for I Am Holy says the Lord. It sounds like you might be splitting hairs since being holy and being sanctified are the same Greek word. It sounds as if you are saying being Holy has no purpose in a believers life. Is that correct ?

If not why not ?

 

[RickReads]

why do you need a "benefit" for being Holy other than God demands it from believers ?

Be Holy for I Am Holy says the Lord. It sounds like you might be splitting hairs since being holy and being sanctified are the same Greek word. It sounds as if you are saying being Holy has no purpose in a believers life. Is that correct ?

If not why not ?

Sounds like you are getting defensive about it. That wasn`t my purpose in asking you.

You answer me with a criticizing question that serves no meaningful purpose, not an answer. Remains to be seen if anyone can answer my question.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Sounds like you are getting defensive about it. That wasn`t my purpose in asking you.

You answer me with a criticizing question that serves no meaningful purpose, not an answer. Remains to be seen if anyone can answer my question.

Ok let me rephrase it do you see a difference between a believer being Holy, living a holy life and sanctification ?

Unless we can define words and terms and agree upon them we cannot further the discussion and try and resolve it IMHO.

 

[RickReads]

Ok let me rephrase it do you see a difference between a believer being Holy, living a holy life and sanctification ?

Unless we can define words and terms and agree upon them we cannot further the discussion and try and resolve it IMHO.

I see it almost as the works issue all over again. Being sanctified gives a believer the ability to lead a holy life. Living holy is a result of God making us Holy. It begins with the work He does in our heart. Everything with God begins with the condition of our hearts. We can do nothing on our own.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I see it almost as the works issue all over again. Being sanctified gives a believer the ability to lead a holy life. Living holy is a result of God making us Holy. It begins with the work He does in our heart. Everything with God begins with the condition of our hearts. We can do nothing on our own.

But that does not take away our personal responsibility and actions to live godly in this present life. Do you agree ?

 

[RickReads]

But that does not take away our personal responsibility and actions to live godly in this present life. Do you agree ?

Yes, I agree, but that doesn`t establish sanctification as something that is progressive. I`m still waiting for some scripture evidence and in my opinion, none has been produced on this thread up to this point in spite of all the opposition to my stance.

I tried to bring you into this discussion because it would be nice to see some rational argument on this matter. If there is any to be had.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Yes, I agree, but that doesn`t establish sanctification as something that is progressive. I`m still waiting for some scripture evidence and in my opinion, none has been produced on this thread up to this point in spite of all the opposition to my stance.

so living holy in this life is not progressive ?

Our role in sanctification is both passive and active. Passively, we are to trust God to sanctify us, presenting our bodies to God (Romans 6:13; 12:1) and yielding to the Holy Spirit. “It is God’s will that you should be sanctified” (1 Thessalonians 4:3), and God will have His way.

Actively, we are responsible to choose to do what is right. “Each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable” (1 Thessalonians 4:4). This involves putting to death the “misdeeds of the body” (Romans 8:13), striving for holiness (Hebrews 12:14), fleeing immorality (1 Corinthians 6:18), cleansing ourselves from every defilement (2 Corinthians 7:1), and making every effort to supplement our faith (2 Peter 1:5-11).got?

hope this helps !!!

 

[RickReads]

so living holy in this life is not progressive ?

Not for salvic purposes. For treasure, yes. That would have been the right answer to my question. Does it disappoint you to know that I am greedy for God`s rewards?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Not for salvic purposes. For treasure, yes. That would have been the right answer to my question. Does it disappoint you to know that I am greedy for God`s rewards?

not at all as whatever drives you to be more like Christ is fine with me.

 

[RickReads]

so living holy in this life is not progressive ?

Our role in sanctification is both passive and active. Passively, we are to trust God to sanctify us, presenting our bodies to God (Romans 6:13; 12:1) and yielding to the Holy Spirit. “It is God’s will that you should be sanctified” (1 Thessalonians 4:3), and God will have His way.

Actively, we are responsible to choose to do what is right. “Each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable” (1 Thessalonians 4:4). This involves putting to death the “misdeeds of the body” (Romans 8:13), striving for holiness (Hebrews 12:14), fleeing immorality (1 Corinthians 6:18), cleansing ourselves from every defilement (2 Corinthians 7:1), and making every effort to supplement our faith (2 Peter 1:5-11).got?

hope this helps !!!

Your "Actively" is not salvic, only good for rewards and the production of fruit. I don`t think it`s sanctification for that reason.

Crypto Lutheran put up a very impressive post on this issue. He calls it two types of righteousness.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Your "Actively" is not salvic, only good for rewards and the production of fruit. I don`t think it`s sanctification for that reason.

Crypto Lutheran put up a very impressive post on this issue. He calls it two types of righteousness.

Agreed I've always said that Rick. Ephesian 2:8-10. Good works are a result and by product of salvation not the means to salvation or what keeps us saved. Its the good tree bearing good fruit.

 

[RickReads]

Agreed I've always said that Rick. Ephesian 2:8-10. Good works are a result and by product of salvation not the means to salvation or what keeps us saved. Its the good tree bearing good fruit.

Crypto`s post on the topic is probably the best I`ve ever seen. I copied and pasted it to this thread but JAL buried it.

 

[RickReads]

No I never said that. I was disputing degrees of evidence and arguing that the degree of evidence for progressive sanctification is very high in many verses, and cumulatively higher in fact than the degree of evidence for the Trinity. Thus my implied argument was this:
(1) If you accept the Trinity based on a fairly small amount of evidence.
(2) You should therefore accept progressive sanctification, since it has more evidence.
Not sure that argument is watertight but it seemed worthy of consideration.

It leaking water like a sieve. Since zero evidence for progressive sanctification has been produced there is a massively higher amount of evidence that God is a trinity even though it is in fact a small amount.

 

[RickReads]

But sure I do have some unorthodox views of the Godhead - and I make no bones about it. I'm the only one I know of who has provided real solutions to the Incarnation, The Problem of Evil, the nature of creation, divine merit, divine freedom, and divine agency (well a couple of these could be attributed to Tertullian as well, also Andrew Murray except Murray wasn't explicit so I could only draw tentative conclusions when trying to read between the lines).

Why is Incarnation in need of a solution.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Why is Incarnation in need of a solution.

Agreed it is the solution.