What about America?

[npetreley]

The first part of the DOI was largely written by Jefferson, who based the text on the Virginia declaration of rights. That was written by George Mason, and includes:

Section 16. That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practise Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibit_hall/charters_of_freedom/declaration/declaration.html

http://www.archives.gov/exhibit_hal...of_rights/virginia_declaration_of_rights.html

 

[Nathan Poe]

Originally posted by npetreley
The first part of the DOI was largely written by Jefferson, who based the text on the Virginia declaration of rights. That was written by George Mason, and includes:

"Section 16. That religion, or the duty <B>which we owe to our Creator</B>, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore <B>all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion</B>, according to the dictates of conscience; and that <B>it is the mutual duty of all to practise <I>Christian</I> forbearance, love, and charity toward each other</B>."

http://www.archives.gov/exhibit_hall/charters_of_freedom/declaration/declaration.html

http://www.archives.gov/exhibit_hal...of_rights/virginia_declaration_of_rights.html

Apples and oranges, my boy. As I myself said in post #5 on this thread, the DoI is not a binding legal document, the Constitution is. It wouldn't matter if Jefferson said we got our rights from God, nature, or little green men. It doesn't matter if Jefferson based his writing on the Virginia Declaration of Rights, the Bible, or a Spider-Man comic.

&nbsp;There in not a single clause or word in the DoI which is currently enforced in any court of law. The Constitution is the law of the land. The DoI is historical propaganda.

So what if the DoI explicitly mentions the Christian God (which it doesn't), or implies the existence of a vague supreme being (which it might)? It has no bearing whatsoever on our current government or legal system. This argument is a dead issue.

 

[Caffeine Socialism]

Well, I think we win here.

 

[lithium.]

The people that made the DOI was leaving in the middleages lol not really, but a couple 100 years ago people used to kill people for being witches, and other crazy stuff.&nbsp; But you know what i mean.&nbsp; Now there is so many people that believe that there is no god, or that Evolution is real, so GOD doens't mean anything in the DOI.&nbsp; BTW (god is just another way for people that are scared to die, not to be scared) lol.



-Don't hate me&nbsp;cause i am different HEH.

 

[RufusAtticus]

Originally posted by npetreley
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." [/B]

Ahh "their creator." I was wondering when someone would bring that up. Note it is not "The Creator." Thus, whatever created man gave these rights to them. Sounds like a vote for evolution.

 

[Chris H]

And I second that vote.

Chris

 

[npetreley]

Shoot. They found out George Mason and Thomas Jefferson were evolutionists. I was hoping that secret would never leak out.

 

[Chris H]

Originally posted by MSBS
Chris,

Turn up your irony meter just a tad.

BTW, I realized your were beinga little sarcastic. I was agreeing with you.

Chris

 

[MSBS]

Originally posted by Chris H

BTW, I realized your were beinga little sarcastic. I was agreeing with you.

Chris

&nbsp;

LOL...I guess I should turn mine up.&nbsp;

 

[Stormy]

When evolution is taught in schools is it taught as fact or theory?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Originally posted by Stormy
When evolution is taught in schools is it taught as fact or theory?

As a teacher, I can tell you the sad truth that many science classes avoid the issue altogether. There's too much controversy. Most principals and school boards want to keep&nbsp;their names out of the newspapers and the protesters out of their schoolyards. Political pressure wins out over education every time.

And people wonder why the U.S. Educational system is in sad shape.

 

[Stormy]

I was asking because, as a child, grades were important to me for my own self-worth. But I would not even be able to pass a course that would have caused me to lie. I could see the possibility of test questions that would go against my beliefs.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Originally posted by Stormy
I was asking because, as a child, grades were important to me for my own self-worth. But I would not even be able to pass a course that would have caused me to lie. I could see the possibility of test questions that would go against my beliefs.

And anything that goes against your beliefs is a lie?

Never mind; I already know the answer to that one.

Whether evolution is true or not is not something most students will not have to be bothered&nbsp;with. Our school system is&nbsp;on life support as it is, and can't afford to waste its time and resources defending itself against lawsuits.&nbsp;The only safe course for them is to choose ignorance over controversy.

Oh well. Look at the bright side. By the time your children go to elementary school, high school, and most likely college, the educational system will be so intimidated by threats of lawsuits that they won't dare introduce your child to any idea that might possibly challenge his/her precious beliefs.... or anyone else's for that matter.

Welcome to the future.... looks a lot like the past to me.

 

[MSBS]

Stormy,
It's possible to understand a concept without actually agreeing with it. You don't have to "lie" on a test about it, you just have to show that you understand what it is and how to apply it. I ran into this kind of thing many times when I was an undergraduate (entirely in the humanities, not science).

 

[RufusAtticus]

Stormy,

If you actually took the time to learn about evolution--what it is and is not--you wouldn't have to lie anyways.

 

[Chris H]

Stormy, even if learning about evolution were against your belifs wouldn't you want to understand it to argue against it??

Chris

 

[Caffeine Socialism]

Don't put ideas into their heads...

 

[ifriit]

Caffeine Socialism: Don't put ideas into their heads...

Someone needs to.

 

[wb3]

Morat says that now the BOE can spend thousands of dollars dfending its decision. I must respond to that by saying that it hasn't been too many years since a BOE in Tennessee that fired a teacher for teaching evoluton. IRONY???

To Nathan Poe, I know that the DOI has no legally binding powers. I never said it did. Didn't mean to imply it. My point was there was somewhat of a standard set by our founding fathers.
(I'am on a roll)
To seesaw the people who wrote the DOI may have been in "the middle ages" but these are BASICALLY, not exactly, the same people who wrote the document that runs our country today. The Constitution. There is only a few years difference between their ages. Check and see.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Originally posted by wb3

To Nathan Poe, I know that the DOI has no legally binding powers. I never said it did. Didn't mean to imply it. My point was there was somewhat of a standard set by our founding fathers.

Whatever "standard" it sets is irrelevent. Our nation is not based on&nbsp;standards, traditions, or even morals. It is a nation based on laws. The DoI has none. Move on.

Didn't mean to imply it? No, you only meant to use it as a justification for a fundamentalist agenda. Let's go back to the beginning. . .

If anyone would read the Declaration of Independence you would see that our country(USA) is founded on the fact we are all CREATED equal by God.

This, plus your anti-evolution rant, shows your intent to push Biblical creationism as one of the "standards" our founding fathers set. Need I remind you that some of the other standards originally set by them are slavery, Indian massacres, and that only they, landowning white males, should have the honor of voting and running our government? Check the Constitution -- the sections that have been amended.&nbsp;

If we are not created with a design or accountability then everything our entire society is based on is wrong.

Says who?

&nbsp;

If we have no accountability then lying, stealing, cheating, communism, etc. is all OK.

I see you mixed communism in with all the other evils of the world. Can't quite separate faith from conservative politics? Need I remind you that Christ himself wasn't a big fan of capitalism? I've noticed that Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell,&nbsp;and their bretheren never quote this particular scripture:

"it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." --Mark 10:25

&nbsp;

According to evolution some of the people on earth are more "evolved". Does this mean there is a race of humans more evolved that deserve more rights because they are evolutionarily ahead of the rest of us? Admiting evolution undermines God and the basis of one of the greatest countries in the world

Well, enough people have responded to this part to prove it's utter nonsense. No need for me to add to the pile.