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What about America?

wb3

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If anyone would read the Declaration of Independence you would see that our country(USA) is founded on the fact we are all CREATED equal by God. If we are not created with a design or accountability then everything our entire society is based on is wrong. If we have no accountability then lying, stealing, cheating, communism, etc. is all OK. According to evolution some of the people on earth are more "evolved". Does this mean there is a race of humans more evolved that deserve more rights because they are evolutionarily ahead of the rest of us? Admiting evolution undermines God and the basis of one of the greatest countries in the world.

By the way, in Marietta, Georgia the school board there ruled that teachers in their district could teach creation along with evolution.   YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!
 
Originally posted by wb3
If anyone would read the Declaration of Independence you would see that our country(USA) is founded on the fact we are all CREATED equal by God.

Really now? You woundn't happen to be able to support this by quoting from the DOI?

If we are not created with a design or accountability then everything our entire society is based on is wrong. If we have no accountability then lying, stealing, cheating, communism, etc. is all OK.

We can not be created and still have those things. Simple observation will show you that we have these things wheather we are creations or not.

[bAccording to evolution some of the people on earth are more "evolved". Does this mean there is a race of humans more evolved that deserve more rights because they are evolutionarily ahead of the rest of us?[/b]

Actually according to evolutionary theory "more evolved" is a nonsense term. Evolutionary genetics has done more to destroy racism in the last 50 years than any other human advancement. What science has shown is that humans are one big interbreeding population and the differences between ethnic groups are minute and superficial.

Admiting evolution undermines God and the basis of one of the greatest countries in the world.

Evolution undermines America? Is that why the Federal Government spends billions of dollars on evolutionary research every year? Is that why I have a National Science Foundation fellowship to get my doctorate studying evolutionary genetics?

By the way, in Marietta, Georgia the school board there ruled that teachers in their district could teach creation along with evolution.   YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!

And it will be overturned as unconstitutional. See Edwards v. Aguillard.
 
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MSBS

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Originally posted by wb3

By the way, in Marietta, Georgia the school board there ruled that teachers in their district could teach creation along with evolution.   YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!

and made themselves, their students, and their schools laughingstocks on universities all over the country.   Yeaaaaa! lets celibrate that a schoolboard in the state with the lowest SAT scores in the nation decided to teach religion in their science classes!  :rolleyes:
 
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Nathan Poe

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Does anyone with even the slightest knowledge of history want to tell wb3 that the Declaration of Independence is not the law of the land? the DoI was a proclamation to the American people calling for revolution, as well as a public relations appeal to the rest of the world. There is nothing legally binding in it.

The Constitution, on the other hand, is a legal document, and the law of the land. Not only does it contain absolutely no references to God, but the only reference to religion in any form (excluding the Bill of Rights) is in Article 6, clause 3:

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

(emphasis mine)

Our founding fathers may have been good God-fearing Christians, but they were wise enough to know that being a good God-fearing Christian was not relevent to democracy. It's certainly not relevent to science.

Even if this weren't the case, wb3, are you suggesting that if our government believes in Biblical creartion, then it must be true? Need I remind you that our government once believed in slavery and segregation?

On a related note, even though the President traditionally finishes his oath of office with "So help me God," look at the exact oath in Article 2, section 1, clause 8. Those words never appear.

I believe that the USA will one day become a "Christian Nation" just as the Fundamentalists want it to be. I'll be unpacking my things in Canada the next day.
 
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Our founding fathers may have been good God-fearing Christians, but they were wise enough to know that being a good God-fearing Christian was not relevent to democracy. It's certainly not relevent to science.

If I am not mistaken, I believe a number of our founding fathers were in fact deists, not Christian.

As for the declaration, Jefferson himself can be best ascribed to being a Unitarian.
 
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Chris H

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Originally posted by RufusAtticus
Really now? You woundn't happen to be able to support this by quoting from the DOI?

Just Says Created, doesn't say created by God. But church state seperation is another issue.



We can not be created and still have those things. Simple observation will show you that we have these things wheather we are creations or not.


Agreed


Actually according to evolutionary theory "more evolved" is a nonsense term. Evolutionary genetics has done more to destroy racism in the last 50 years than any other human advancement. What science has shown is that humans are one big interbreeding population and the differences between ethnic groups are minute and superficial.

Agreed. Many of the most open minded people I've known have belived in evolution.


Evolution undermines America? Is that why the Federal Government spends billions of dollars on evolutionary research every year? Is that why I have a National Science Foundation fellowship to get my doctorate studying evolutionary genetics?


Makes me proud to be a taxpayer. I'll pull wire with more pride tomorrow knowing that some of my tax dollars are going to good use. Hopefully you'll be able to teach a lot of other people about evolution.


And it will be overturned as unconstitutional. See Edwards v. Aguillard.

It should be overturned. It is unconstituitonal.

Chris :sigh:
 
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Chris H

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Originally posted by MSBS
and made themselves, their students, and their schools laughingstocks on universities all over the country.   Yeaaaaa! lets celibrate that a schoolboard in the state with the lowest SAT scores in the nation decided to teach religion in their science classes!  :rolleyes:

Creationism isn't science. Teaching it in the classroom won't make it science, either.

Chris :( :rolleyes: :eek: :scratch:
 
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What kind of thinking is it that allows the supposed validity of a scientific theory to hang on a political document?

(Please note that this is a rhetorical question. I know *precisely* what kind of thinking it is...)

Next these people will be denigrating cosmology since it doesn't jibe with the Bill of Rights.

Cheers,
Prax

(Edited to add) And by the way, wb3 - the United States is just one country.  Your jingoistic arrogance is offensive.
 
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My Higher Self

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Originally posted by wb3
If anyone would read the Declaration of Independence you would see that our country(USA) is founded on the fact we are all CREATED equal by God. If we are not created with a design or accountability then everything our entire society is based on is wrong. If we have no accountability then lying, stealing, cheating, communism, etc. is all OK. According to evolution some of the people on earth are more "evolved". Does this mean there is a race of humans more evolved that deserve more rights because they are evolutionarily ahead of the rest of us? Admiting evolution undermines God and the basis of one of the greatest countries in the world.

By the way, in Marietta, Georgia the school board there ruled that teachers in their district could teach creation along with evolution.   YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!

Did you ever notice that no where, does it ever refer to Christ? Though its probably an accepted given that they were referring to the christian god, that's not necessarily the case. Many of our fore fathers were not christian, many not even religious, but they knew that the general population needed something upon which to base their moral structure.
 
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MSBS

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From:

http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/metro/cobb/0902/29evolution.html

 

Can teachers discuss this topic without revealing their own beliefs?

Gary Darnell, principal at Shiloh Hills Christian School in Kennesaw, believes they can't, and he would rather public school teachers simply leave creationism alone. Too many would favor science over religion, he said, and creationism would suffer.

"They're going to make sure a person doesn't buy it."

it seems that not all creationists are thrilled about the Cobb County school board.
 
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stillsmallvoice

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Hi all!

This was in today's Atlanta Journal-Constitution:

_____

Why pit God against
evolution?
Cynthia Tucker - Staff
Wednesday, October 2, 2002

Perhaps the most puzzling thing about Cobb County's
controversy over the teaching of evolution is this: Nothing in the
Cobb curriculum, including the text on evolution, denies the
existence of God. Indeed, many scientists believe in the
existence of a Supreme Being and still accept the theory of
evolution.

As outlined in the textbook "Biology: Concepts and
Connections," the discussion of the origin of species leaves
plenty of room for believers to see the hand of a benevolent God
at work. (And for nonbelievers to see no such thing.) The book
simply outlines the familiar and broadly accepted view that all
existing life developed from earlier forms through natural
selection.

For a high school textbook, its explanation of evolution is
relatively sophisticated --- certainly compared with the textbook I
studied in the 10th grade. The book brings students up to date
with the work of Richard Dawkins, whose studies have
elaborated on natural selection. It also cites my favorite
evolutionary theorist, the late Stephen Jay Gould.

But the book should not be controversial to any but the most
narrow-minded. It does not rattle religious views unless they
adhere to the literal story of the Creation in seven days.

Still, the Cobb school board could not find the courage to stand
up to the creationists, who clearly want teachers to actively inject
an affirmation of religion into classroom discussions of science.
While religious conservatives deny that, what else would
motivate them to attack the teaching of evolution?

When religious conservatives speak of "intelligent design," they
are promoting a view that actively supports belief in a higher
power --- or God. That's what they want taught in the classrooms
--- not hard science but faith, something that, by its very nature,
does not lend itself to the rigors of scientific scrutiny.

The religious fundamentalists who provoked this controversy
were no doubt buoyed by a seemingly small but critical victory
they had won a few months ago. They persuaded the Cobb
school board to label several textbooks with the following
disclaimer: "This textbook contains material on evolution.
Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living
things . . ."

It's too bad the board didn't have the good sense back then to
reject that nonsensical example of scientific illiteracy. When
scientists use the word "theory," they mean "a more or less
verified or established explanation accounting for known facts or
phenomena," according to Webster's. In that sense, gravity is
only a theory.

Last week, the school board went further, passing a policy that
supports "discussion of disputed views." Here is a fact, not a
theory: Among scientists, there is precious little dispute about
the basic outlines of evolution.

In a brilliant 1999 debate between two particle physicists, one a
believer and one an atheist, the theory of evolution was never in
dispute. Anglican priest and physicist John Polkinghorne,
defending his religious beliefs against the arguments of Nobel
laureate Steven Weinberg, said that the theory of evolution might
help theologians answer the age-old question of why there is evil
in a world created by a benevolent God.

Polkinghorne said evolution suggests that "God created a world
that could make itself."

For those on the Christian left --- and I count myself a member of
that steadfast, if small, group --- it does not matter one whit
whether God created the universe in seven days or several
billion years. Nor does it matter whether she started all life in a
primordial soup and set a system in motion wherein species
evolved over time. Her glory is not diminished.

Cynthia Tucker is the editorial page editor. Her column appears
Wednesdays and Sundays.

cynthia@ajc.com

Link: http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/epaper/editions/wednesday/opinion_d3a9b81ee5c1615900dd.html
_____

Be well!

ssv :wave:
 
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Originally posted by RufusAtticus
Really now? You woundn't happen to be able to support this by quoting from the DOI?

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
 
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