What about a group?

[AbbieDunne]

Matthew 5: 11 - 12

"God blesses you when you are mocked and persecuted and lied about because you are my followers. Be happy about it! bed very glad! For a great reward awaits you in heaven. And remember, the ancient prophets were persecuted too"​

I thought that it would be good to discuss how significant this is in todays world. Personally, I know that people mock and laugh at my faith and at the choices I make because of my faith and it gets me down. I found this small bit really re-assuring myself!! Do other people struggle with being mocked?

Abbie xxx

(sorry about my spelling, im rubbish!)

 

[GregoryTurner]

Actually the place that I work I have heard that people say things about me. Not to me but they do apologize when they curse. Most of the time people where I work treat me as the village idiot. So I guess yes it is very relevant today.

 

[MMXII]

I agree with you both. We can be persecuted for what we are and Who's we are. I subscribe to the Voice of the Martyrs. When I think about persecution in the true sense...until death I used to think of the first martyrs like Stephen. But folks, we aren't persecuted like people in other parts of the world are. I don't know about you Abbie, but Greg and I are afforded the opportunity to worship where and how we want, we can own and carry a Bible and we are afforded the right to speak as we feel. Thank God

But isn't it hard when someone makes fun of us? We are taught to turn the other cheek but I find that difficult. But the eyes of the world are on we as Christians just waiting for us to stumble and fall. We need to keep our eyes fully focused on Jesus, he will lead us in the right direction if we but only chose to go that way.

Oh..btw, if you want more information on today's martyr's go to the Voice of the Martyrs.

 

[tergail]

I haven't had too much exerience with this. I have had people question decisions I've made that I based on the bible. But to be mocked or hated for my belief's is luckily something I've never come across yet. I too have subscribed to the voice of the martyrs because I am in awe of those who are so strong to stand up for their faith in the face of such drastic consequences. I pray that when and if I am ever faced with that situation that I will be as strong as those who have given their life for God. I believe I will.
As stated above, I am so thankful that we live in a country where we have the freedom to believe what we want and to practice our belief's.

BTW- I'm so glad we have had more to join and I'm looking forward to this! I think it will be great!

 

[AbbieDunne]

A good way of seeing the level of persecution is to imagin how different walking down the road, or getting the bus ect would be if every one in the world were christians.

God gave me something to say just as I was drifting of last night and i cant for the life of me remember what it was

Abbie xxx

 

[MMXII]

God gave me something to say just as I was drifting of last night and i cant for the life of me remember what it was

Abbie xxx

He'll give it back to you.

 

[tergail]

Just tonight I was watching a commercial on tv that got me to thinking. A time will come when people all over the world will be persecuted. In the book of revelations it talks about thise that take the mark of the beast and those that don't. Those that refuse will be persecuted.
I won't pretend to know or be able to fully translate the book of revelations but from what I've read elsewhere, it said that the mark of the beast will come in the form of the money chip that is being talked about. I guess a survey was doen amongst teens asking about how they would feel to have this microchip inserted into their skin to use in place of money and their was an incredibly high percentage that thought this would be "cool". I can't remember where I read this but it was on a site talking about the apocalypse.
So anyways, this commercial tonight really showed me how close we are to this chip becoming a reality. In the commercial it showed a cafeteria. It was like an assembly line where everyone was moving real fast to get their food and eat and go. Everyone was kind of moving like robots. Until one guy gets to the register and instead of using his credit card speed pass to pay, he was using cash and everything came to a halt and everyone was looking at him real hatefully because he was holding up the line. I though how disturbing this commercial was on so many levels. Not only was it promoting the credit card (which to me are evil in themselves!! lol) but it was promoting an incredibly fast paced life. No time to eat, definitely no time to stop and pay. It was basically saying that you HAVE to have one of these fast credit cards to live in this fast paced world. How easily could they take that commercial and instead of promoting a credit card they could have been promoting this chip.
It was really scary to know that we are not that far off from this. But then again not so scary because I guess if this chip is coming then maybe Jesus coming even faster and I'm certainly ready for that!
but just think, if this chip is supposed to be the mark of the beast and so many refuse it, think of just how much persecution will be going on.
I may be off on this, who knows. But it's definitely something to think about!

 

[GregoryTurner]

This is not the first time I have heard about this chip. It is kind of scary to think that our youth is ok with it. Are they not being taught the Word of God any longer?

 

[JTLauder]

I'd like to be part of this, but I don't have the time to do it every day. Monthly, maybe weekly.

First to comment on Tergail, the chip thing does sound very much like something approaching what we imagine happening towards the end times, but credit cards are not evil. How can you say an inanimate object is "evil"? If people do not know how to handle their purchases and finances responsibly, then they should not get one. It's the same thing if you were handling real cash. Many people don't know how to handle their own money responsibly and stay on a budget. Money itself is not evil; it has a lot of power and influence and can make many people do evil things for it, but money and credit cards themselves are not evil.

As for the Matthew 5:11-12 verses, care must be taken in these Bible Studies if we are do them is to be careful not to take verses out of context. These verses are part of a larger passage known as the "Beatitudes" and if we were to conduct a responsible Bible Study, we must take care to not misinterpret Scripture.

It just so happens in this case Matthew 5:11-12 can stand on their own without too much chance of misinterpretation, but to be more complete, I suggest also adding v.10.

I'll start off first with some observations.

The important thing to note here is this isn't just any "persecution" but persecution for the sake of Christ and righteousness. That's not to say we don't encounter problems from other things, but that this is specifically talking about facing persecution for our faith.

The other key observation is that Jesus offers words of both warning and encouragement. In verse 11, Jesus says "Bless are you when..." There is nothing lost in the English translation here. The same meaning is used in the word used in the original Greek. "When" implies that something will definitely happen. It happened to even the prophets of old who were supposedly respected, so why shouldn't it happen to us. So we should not be surprised or shocked when it happens. As a matter of fact, we can expect it, so we should be prepared for it--mentally and spiritually.

But Jesus also offers hope and encouragement despite the upcoming persecutions. He says we are "blessed"--we should be happy about it because Jesus promises the "Kingdom of Heaven".

To continue this disccusion, I offer some questions:

What is the "Kingdom of Heaven? What are these "rewards"?

Are we really "persecuted" today? Facing insults and slander can be difficult, but people are imprisoned and killed for their faith. Are we prepared for that if it has to come to that?

How do we continue to "rejoice and be exceedingly glad" especially in times of persecution? How can we help one another with support and encouragement?

 

[AbbieDunne]

Im alittle confused by that to be honest. We probably will take things out of context but the whole point of this group was so that we can talk on small pieces of scripture, so that we can have a more detailed discussion, where as if we looked at a large piece then the discussion may not be too detailed.


Im sorry for my spelling, you will have to ignor it in all my posts because i really am bad at it!!


As for the chip thing, I find it really scary!! Im not sure if any of you have read the "Left Behind" books? They are all about revelation, but they give it characters so its easy to understand ( I would reccommend them they are sooo hard to put down!!)

Would any one else like to give the next discussion text?

Abbie xxx

 

[AbbieDunne]

I'd like to be part of this, but I don't have the time to do it every day. Monthly, maybe weekly.

Dont worry, feel free to join, the more the merrier!!

The other key observation is that Jesus offers words of both warning and encouragement. In verse 11, Jesus says "Bless are you when..." There is nothing lost in the English translation here. The same meaning is used in the word used in the original Greek. "When" implies that something will definitely happen.

This is a good point, I never noticed that!! Thanks

To continue this disccusion, I offer some questions:

What is the "Kingdom of Heaven? What are these "rewards"?

I guess we wont fully know untill we get there!! Eternal life with God I imagin is the most obvious?

Are we really "persecuted" today? Facing insults and slander can be difficult, but people are imprisoned and killed for their faith. Are we prepared for that if it has to come to that?

i think that people are persecuted by insults, its still all aimed at us because of our faith, like people were killed for their faith we are insulted because of it...sort of the same thing

How do we continue to "rejoice and be exceedingly glad" especially in times of persecution? How can we help one another with support and encouragement?

By small groups like this

feel free to pick me up on anythin I have said everyone, we will all have diff opinions!!

Abbie xxx

 

[tergail]

but credit cards are not evil. How can you say an inanimate object is "evil"? If people do not know how to handle their purchases and finances responsibly, then they should not get one. It's the same thing if you were handling real cash. Many people don't know how to handle their own money responsibly and stay on a budget. Money itself is not evil; it has a lot of power and influence and can make many people do evil things for it, but money and credit cards themselves are not evil.

Ummm, it was a joke and I'm sorry if you took that seriously. No an inanimate object cannot be evil. I'll try to be more careful in th future of making jokes that can be taken too seriously!

 

[AbbieDunne]

Dont worry tergail, it was a funny joke!! I think most people knew it was a joke, it was just picked on I guess...dont lose your sense of humour in here pleaseee it will make things interesting!! xxx

 

[JTLauder]

Im alittle confused by that to be honest. We probably will take things out of context but the whole point of this group was so that we can talk on small pieces of scripture, so that we can have a more detailed discussion, where as if we looked at a large piece then the discussion may not be too detailed.

I don't understand. Are you saying that it's expected this discussion will take verses out of context and then it's acceptable? It is absolutely not acceptable if we want to use the Bible as something to apply to our lives.

True, this isn't the best place for a long detailed discussion of larger passages. But we want to be careful not to misinterpret scripture. We can focus on individual verses, but it's important to know the context of those verses too. We don't have to make an indepth study out of the larger passage, just make sure we are putting the verses we are studying in the right setting.

As for the chip thing, I find it really scary!! Im not sure if any of you have read the "Left Behind" books? They are all about revelation, but they give it characters so its easy to understand ( I would reccommend them they are sooo hard to put down!!)

I've read the whole series. While the series does a good job illustrating the course of events from start to finish of Pretribution Rapture, it's important to keep in mind that 1) it's only a fictional interpretation of Revelations, and 2) it only represents one interpretation of the end times, although it does happen to be the most widely accepted viewpoint.

Would any one else like to give the next discussion text?

We are done with the current one?
How about instead of all these "studies" in a single large thread, we have individual threads for each topic. (I personally don't have the time and patience to sift through hundreds of messages to find where a topic begins and ends. Maybe we can preface the thread subject line with something like "Forum Bible Study:..." so we can identify them apart from other threads in the forum.

 

[AbbieDunne]

I think that would be confusing for every one, including me!! I started this so that we could all meet in one place and discuss text from the bible, if it goes out of context then we can discuss it further untill we are on the right track. Lets leave it and see what every one else wants to do, but I think it has worked so far.

Im all for constructive critism but it seems like your tryin to change every single thing cos you think its rubbish. We are totally off topic now and im a little down at your comments.

xxx

 

[tergail]

Dont worry tergail, it was a funny joke!! I think most people knew it was a joke, it was just picked on I guess...dont lose your sense of humour in here pleaseee it will make things interesting!! xxx

Don't worry I won't! I was kind of being sarcastic! I'll have to keep that in check as well!!

 

[tergail]

I think that would be confusing for every one, including me!! I started this so that we could all meet in one place and discuss text from the bible, if it goes out of context then we can discuss it further untill we are on the right track. Lets leave it and see what every one else wants to do, but I think it has worked so far.

Im all for constructive critism but it seems like your tryin to change every single thing cos you think its rubbish. We are totally off topic now and im a little down at your comments.

xxx

I agree. I think the point we were trying to discuss was persecution and she picked a verse that stood out in her mind about it. It worked for me.
I'm not sure JTLauder what it is you want us to do. But I think our purpose is to pick a topic and have a friendly discussion about it. I'm sure most of us are not bible scholars and I don't think this study will make us one either. Together we are trying to learn. But in a friendly way. Which may include some humor. And will definitely include some not so scholarly discussions.
Verses of the bible are used on a regular basis to get a point across. Wether taken out of context or not. In fact they are often taken out of context and used to be applied to life. The meaning of the verse is not being changed nor twisted or turned around. It still says the same thing. Pastors everyday will take 1 verse and preach an entire sermon off of it. I don't believe what we are doing here is any different.
Maybe you are looking for a more in depth scholarly study, maybe not. But I don't feel it's right for you to come here and criticise the things we say or how we say them.
Please know that I am not trying to be mean or tell you to go somewhere else or anything like that. But I too feel like you are bringing down what we are trying to do here and how we are doing it!
Maybe you would enjoy it better if you started your own study.

 

[LamorakDesGalis]

Would any one else like to give the next discussion text?

Abbie xxx

I'll volunteer to post the next text for discussion.

I can see that already people have different expectations from this ongoing thread. That's pretty normal.

What I want is to have a little friendly fellowship and read what others have to say about the verses, and their thoughts and Christian life in general. Now I do admit I'm in the "Bible scholar" category. I like to give in depth answers on questions about Scripture, and to lay out the possible options for others. But in this thread, quite frankly, I'm content to "hang back" and I'm very interested in reading what others have to say.

I am enjoying reading what folks are saying so far. I also thought JTLauder's first post had some very good questions. He is focusing on developing the meaning of the text a bit more, and that can be somewhat challenging. Don't be discouraged! I intuitively detect that he doesn't intend to discourage others, because one of his questions was:

How can we help one another with support and encouragement?

And believe me, I've had plenty of experience with online folks who have an axe to grind. JT's not one of them. Honestly, I think we can have a good mixture of fellowship and comments centered around Scripture verses or passages. I think we just need to get used to one another's style of writing. Smilies do help but its hard to communicate "voice tones" in a post.


LDG

 

[tergail]

I will be the first to apologize if I mis-interpreted JT's post, tone, intentions, etc. I just felt that my comment about credit cards was clearly a joke and JT obviously did not see it that way.
I am all for in depth questions. Especially ones that make me think and make me research the bible more. But I feel it could have been done differently instead of saying that we were wrong for the way were going about it to this point. Please by all means ask in depth questions and make us search out the answers. But don't criticize what we have done so far. Add to it all that you will and want and can. But please don't make people feel like idiots or belittle them for not doing something the way you feel it should be done. And if this was not JT's intention then by all means I apologize.
This thread was started with the greatest of intentions and I for one would love to see that through, in a friendly, and scholarly, humorously and loving way. I don't want to see anyone feeling bad for posting their thoughts about a text that we may be studying.

 

[JTLauder]

OK. Looks like I have to clarify some stuff. By all means, I do not mean to criticize or come down on anyone. Like everyone here, I too want a friendly discussion where we can all contribute and learn from one another.

It's just that I'm so used to intense and indepth Bible Studies, that I tend to get really serious and methodical about it and I forget that that isn't the approach other people may use. If some people have been put off by this, I am sorrry. I'll try to keep things a little lighter.

I do feel however, that it is important to read the Bible for what it says and not try to extrapolate whatever meaning we want it to say. I'm not saying that anyone here was doing that, but we should be careful not to do that. Bible study generally revolves around observation, interpretation and then application. And it just seemed like everyone was jumping into the application before making observations about the text and formulating an interpretation about it before understanding how it might apply to our lives.

And I certainly wasn't trying to "grind any axe". Learning to ask good questions is a key component to learning. And asking probing questions helps to challenge our thinking. My hope was that that was what my questions did. Because I certainly don't want my posts to be the final say, and asking questions invites other people to answer.