What’s the worst that can happen?

[Reine]

If a VOICE came from the sky, there might be slight differences, but nothing like we have now. How many different Gods and religions are they? How many different denominations and sects are in each of those religions?
Again; do you not see a problem with this?

Ken

People gravitate toward what can help them find the truth, or what enables them to keep living a lie. They do this even within Christianity and other religions. They either seek to be made well, or seek to use their religious dogma to portray themselves as righteous and others as unrighteous. So, of course their is something wrong with it, but people are free to make wrong choices.

 

[Ken-1122]

I'm talking about stuff that is happening TODAY - it's the same gospel, the same covenant, people are still being transformed from afraid and confused into sons & daughters of God with his attributes and signs following.

If you are sincere, get to a meeing where you will meet these people and experience the signs, gifts and ministries of Jesus Christ.

God is addressing people of all countries, misunderstandings people have are being cleared up. If you chosse not to visit where God's presence is, all these people are witnesses against you. I hope rather you come, with a sincere desire to know God.

It’s obvious you have no interest in answering my questions or discussing the topic at hand; you only want to push your “international fellowship” agenda. Maybe you should start another forum and discuss this international fellowship agenda you keep pushing and you can talk about it there; maybe even get some people to go.

Peace
Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

People gravitate toward what can help them find the truth, or what enables them to keep living a lie. They do this even within Christianity and other religions. They either seek to be made well, or seek to use their religious dogma to portray themselves as righteous and others as unrighteous. So, of course their is something wrong with it, but people are free to make wrong choices.

But the way the system is designed; it is real easy for people to make the wrong choices. Now if a voice came from the sky, all of those wrong choices can be made right; don’t cha think?

K

 

[razeontherock]

I wrote: No! Because when it happened it was the first time in our history that a large enough area was connected by common language and roads to be sure that the facts of the event would never get wiped out.

God waited an awfully long time to do that, and He's not doing it again.

What are you talking about? When did this ever happen?

Ken

Using the blue arrows you could go back further, to see what you said that this was in response to, which I highly recommend. My reference is to the Incarnation, the Logos (very advanced concept for such a little word) made flesh, Emmanuel; G-d with us.

 

[razeontherock]

I actually agree with that. The religious leaders in the days of Jesus' ministry wanted him gone even though they saw him performing miracles, because he was exposing their bad motives. People either want to listen to God, or they don't.

Here's the letter from Pontius Pilate to Caesar, from the link you provided me:

Physical Description of Jesus

Ken you need to scroll down just a little, you'll see it

 

[Reine]

But the way the system is designed; it is real easy for people to make the wrong choices. Now if a voice came from the sky, all of those wrong choices can be made right; don’t cha think?

K

No, I don't really think it would work, ... people make wrong choices because they want to do stuff that makes them look good. Of course this is easier. God deals in truth, not making things easier. But, once people really look inside, that is not as difficult as they imagined, while keeping up false pretence requires much more maintenance than they first imagined.

 

[razeontherock]

(reply)So why didn’t he (Jesus Himself) write anything down? Why did he set up a system that required “men” (with alternative motives) to record his message?

These are very revealing words! Why do you assume alternative motives? What, they wanted to give up everything, live in the desert as nomads, until being tortured to death?

It was 100's of years before anyone associated with Christianity was anything other than a criminal; history records this.

Again; nobody knows what he said, we only have what men claimed he said

You really owe it to yourself to look into the history more closely! What happened, was eye witness accounts, spoken aloud DAILY, for 30 years, in the same place! (The Temple in Jerusalem) Nobody had the chance to screw anything up, and nobody needed anything written. Not until other Churches popped up in other places because Rome destroyed the Temple and everybody either fled or was killed; then the people leading Church services
in those other places wanted their own copies of the Gospels written down, to make sure they didn't mess things up.

It seems to me if God did as you claim; spoke to everyone personally, he would give everyone the same message! But as you know that ain’t true! The messages people claim to get from God vary from person to person.

You've never heard of perspective? We see different perspectives within the 4 Gospel accounts. This adds to their authenticity! If the Church were trying to make things look credible, they would've removed anything that could be construed as an error or contradiction. They didn't. They wanted to make sure you and I received what they did. The Dead Sea Scrolls verify they succeeded.

You're also overlooking something with your statement of "these men Jesus didn't trust;" Pentecost. Stark difference in the participants Disciples, before and after.

 

[Ken-1122]

I wrote: No! Because when it happened it was the first time in our history that a large enough area was connected by common language and roads to be sure that the facts of the event would never get wiped out.

God waited an awfully long time to do that, and He's not doing it again.



Using the blue arrows you could go back further, to see what you said that this was in response to, which I highly recommend. My reference is to the Incarnation, the Logos (very advanced concept for such a little word) made flesh, Emmanuel; G-d with us.

I followed the arrows and it didn't answer my question so let me rephrase it.
When did God address the entire world in an audible voice in a language that everybody understood to clear up the misunderstandings they had of him?

K

 

[razeontherock]

If a VOICE came from the sky, there might be slight differences, but nothing like we have now.

Nope. When G-d's voice spoke to a multitude, some heard Him saying one thing, others heard Him say another thing, others said it just thundered.

 

[Ken-1122]

No, I don't really think it would work, ... people make wrong choices because they want to do stuff that makes them look good. Of course this is easier. God deals in truth, not making things easier. But, once people really look inside, that is not as difficult as they imagined, while keeping up false pretence requires much more maintenance than they first imagined.

I agree SOME people make wrong choices on purpose, but not all. I believe most make wrong choices out of ignorance. I don't think it is fair to claim everybody who is of the wrong religion or who worship the wrong God are being dishonest with themselves; it just doesn't make sense for me to see it that way.

K

 

[razeontherock]

I followed the arrows and it didn't answer my question so let me rephrase it.
When did God address the entire world in an audible voice in a language that everybody understood to clear up the misunderstandings they had of him?

K

Certainly it addressed your question. G-d "spoke to the whole world" via sending His Son. Within that message, He spoke with an audible voice from the sky.

What you have is the Gospel. We all realize this is not exactly what you want, but even Mick Jagger knows that's not so important and ya get what you need.

 

[Reine]

I agree SOME people make wrong choices on purpose, but not all. I believe most make wrong choices out of ignorance. I don't think it is fair to claim everybody who is of the wrong religion or who worship the wrong God are being dishonest with themselves; it just doesn't make sense for me to see it that way.

K

I am not saying that people make choices to have the 'wrong' religion. Religion is neither wrong nor right, it is merely a man made construction to fit God into. Wrong choices are personal choices that are made by someone. We all lie to ourselves to justify our motives. It is when we learn to stop doing this, we can start trusting God. Then we can 'hear his voice.'

 

[Reine]

Here's the letter from Pontius Pilate to Caesar, from the link you provided me:

Physical Description of Jesus

Ken you need to scroll down just a little, you'll see it

This too:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOt3W1QnT5U&feature=related
It is the last video in a series of six that was originally on the History Channel. This last one shows the 3D computerized image of the shroud

 

[Ken-1122]

These are very revealing words! Why do you assume alternative motives? What, they wanted to give up everything, live in the desert as nomads, until being tortured to death?

I was responding to another person named “Reine” who claimed that Jesus didn’t entrust himself to men because of their alternative motives. My reply was in the context of what SHE believes.

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You really owe it to yourself to look into the history more closely! What happened, was eye witness accounts, spoken aloud DAILY, for 30 years, in the same place! (The Temple in Jerusalem) Nobody had the chance to screw anything up,

Oh yeah; like the “telephone game” from grade school huh! Nobody had a chance to screw that up either right??? I’ve got a “News Flash” for you my friend; people are ALWAYS screwing things up! We’re human; that’s what we do! We aren’t perfect.


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You've never heard of perspective? We see different perspectives within the 4 Gospel accounts. This adds to their authenticity! If the Church were trying to make things look credible, they would've removed anything that could be construed as an error or contradiction. They didn't. They wanted to make sure you and I received what they did. The Dead Sea Scrolls verify they succeeded.

I ain’t just talking about different gospels, I’m talking about the different religions. A voice from the sky will clear that up don't cha think?

K

 

[Ken-1122]

Nope. When G-d's voice spoke to a multitude, some heard Him saying one thing, others heard Him say another thing, others said it just thundered.

I suspect the ones who claimed thunder were right, everyone else was either delusional or lying.
Are you suggesting that an all powerful God is not powerful enough to address everyone in an audible voice so they can understand him?

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

Certainly it addressed your question. G-d "spoke to the whole world" via sending His Son. Within that message, He spoke with an audible voice from the sky.

What you have is the Gospel. We all realize this is not exactly what you want, but even Mick Jagger knows that's not so important and ya get what you need.

Sending Jesus didn’t address the entire world; it only addressed a tiny fraction of a small spot of the world.

K

 

[Reine]

I suspect the ones who claimed thunder were right, everyone else was either delusional or lying.
Are you suggesting that an all powerful God is not powerful enough to address everyone in an audible voice so they can understand him?

Ken

I asked God to see him and hear an audible voice and he gave me a diagram instead :/ ... I guess you should really ask God yourself..

 

[Ken-1122]

I am not saying that people make choices to have the 'wrong' religion. Religion is neither wrong nor right, it is merely a man made construction to fit God into. Wrong choices are personal choices that are made by someone. We all lie to ourselves to justify our motives. It is when we learn to stop doing this, we can start trusting God. Then we can 'hear his voice.'

But some things that are required in one religion (such as worshiping Jesus in Christianity) is forbidden in another religion (such as worshiping another man as God in Islam; Islam see Jesus as a man) They both can’t be right; so which is right?

K

 

[Reine]

But some things that are required in one religion (such as worshiping Jesus in Christianity) is forbidden in another religion (such as worshiping another man as God in Islam; Islam see Jesus as a man) They both can’t be right; so which is right?

K

They are both right and both wrong, ... but you can ask God these things ya know

 

[razeontherock]

I was responding to another person named “Reine” who claimed that Jesus didn’t entrust himself to men because of their alternative motives. My reply was in the context of what SHE believes.

Yup I get context, rather well; my statement stands, and powerfully so!

I ain’t just talking about different gospels, I’m talking about the different religions. A voice from the sky will clear that up don't cha think?

Nope not at all; not in the least. Not gonna happen either. Don't know what to make of the Prophecy implying all will see Him at the same time though. Will there be any literal aspect of that, or is it all metaphor? I dunno. I can certainly see the applications of Spiritual Truth, but won't know about the literal until and unless it actually happens. Til then I'll try not to close my mind in ways that falsely limit G-d.