What’s the worst that can happen?

[Ken-1122]

He does and he is!
I'm with an international fellowship where all members have received what all the disciples received, the miracles, unity and joy follows!

In the first words of Jesus . . . . "come and see"

Did you and your "international fellowship" experience God addressing the entire world at once in a language that each of us can understand and clear up the misunderstandings we have of him? No! So what I am speaking of did not happen.

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

Have you looked at stormhawk's link? Surrounding yourself with people who "see things that way," and have also experienced G-d first-hand, is the way ALL of us have gotten to know Him.

I was raised in a "santified church" everybody there makes such claims.

K

 

[razeontherock]

A Santa-fied church?!? Everybody dresses up like Santa? There's gotta be a youtube viddy of that

 

[Ken-1122]

So Ken lets say for arguments sake God exists 100 % , and is all knowing , all powerful etc etc . When the bible was being translated / written , do you not think it is entirely possible He could have made sure it got done exactly right ? Or do you think He was pacing nervously in heaven wringing his hands saying " oh I really hope they get it right " ?

There is an old saying; a foolish mans account of a wise mans words are never accurate, because the fool will inaccurately translate what he hears into something he can actually understand.
If God did exist, I don’t think he would have had foolish men write his message, he would have had his son Jesus do it when he was here on Earth.

And what about ALL the foretold prophesies of Christ in the OT, 100s of years before he came to earth, that he answered to the letter ? If that was so simple to do why hasn't anyone else been the chosen one of God? Why has no other prophet / messiah came back from the dead, or even claimed to be able to forgive sins ?

The men who wrote the bible had access to the prophecies. If you gonna make up a story about Jesus, why not throw in a few prophecies for him to fulfill as well! Makes sense to me!

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

Every point refuted:



How do you know what language they were written in originally? Are you unaware of the growing evidence that Jesus speak at least some Greek?

My point is, the men who wrote of Jesus didn't know him personally.




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Islam recognizes the passages where the claims are made, they just don't understand the text. They want things spelled out like the Koran does, and refuse to see the gentleness Jesus employed.

Islam see's Jesus as a prophet of Allah; not his son.



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From event to first manuscript, by all accounts the Bible is FAR closer than any other work of antiquity! And by all scholarly methods of verification, the Bible makes the Trojan wars look like Mother Goose by comparison. Do you doubt the Trojan wars occurred, or are they taught in schools as fact?

I don't remember being taught about the Trojan War.

Peace
Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

A Santa-fied church?!? Everybody dresses up like Santa? There's gotta be a youtube viddy of that

Ha! ha! Now that was funny!!

Ken

 

[Reine]

Hi Ken ... What would you think God should say to everyone in the whole world in their own language?

 

[Ken-1122]

Hi Ken ... What would you think God should say to everyone in the whole world in their own language?

As I said; clear up all the misinformation everyone has of him. You have so many different religions and within each religion there are so many sects and denominations; everyone searching for the true God but nobody agrees on who he is, what he want's, or how to worship him.

K

 

[Reine]

As I said; clear up all the misinformation everyone has of him. You have so many different religions and within each religion there are so many sects and denominations; everyone searching for the true God but nobody agrees on who he is, what he want's, or how to worship him.

K

I'm asking because I am guessing you already know... but perhaps the information has not become clear to you yet. What message would God give that would clear this up?

 

[Ken-1122]

I'm asking because I am guessing you already know... but perhaps the information has not become clear to you yet. What message would God give that would clear this up?

Okay let's say if the Christian religion is right and all the other ones are wrong. He could tell all the other people who are worshipping wrong to put down their korans, vedas, etc and pick up a bible, read it and do as it says.


Ken

 

[Reine]

Okay let's say if the Christian religion is right and all the other ones are wrong. He could tell all the other people who are worshipping wrong to put down their korans, vedas, etc and pick up a bible, read it and do as it says.


Ken

I'm not trying to be bothersome, ... but it sound like you either want God to say which religion is the correct one, or you want God to guide people to truth and love. Which one of these are you really asking?

 

[Ken-1122]

I'm not trying to be bothersome, ... but it sound like you either want God to say which religion is the correct one, or you want God to guide people to truth and love. Which one of these are you really asking?

Why not both?

K

 

[Reine]

Why not both?

K

OK, both it is ...Mind you though, this is only my opinion. No religion has 'the correct doctrine.'... so God would not speak to anyone IMO telling them that a religion that was created from the subjective values of men that put God into their own small box of thinking, is the correct one. That would lead to a question about how God would reveal who he really is to someone if not through doctrine that is passed down to someone. The answer to that is through your own experiences and the revelation of what is true as it unfolds before you. People think they can have one size fits all answers to every situation, but that is really not the case. I can 'tell' you what you should beleive, as God could... but IMO that would be foolish because you really need to discover this yourself through your perception of the information that you accumulate in your life time. This is a process. God does not want us to start with this information formed in us as concrete... If he did we would all be born with the same programing. God wants us to aquire this throuh learning and discovery. Truth and love is done the same way.

But, although I believe this to be true... we do start out with a 'map' of subjective values that guide us in this journey. We can do things that are unethical and destructive, but when we do this we know we are either lying to ourselves or pretending we are on the right path. We all really do know what path we should be on that will lead to the discovery of enlightenment and truth. We also know that we need to reflect on this. Sometimes we get lazy and don't want to, and we know when we are doing this as well. God set it up this way because he wants us to make the choices as an act of our will to find truth and intentionally act in love. We do this by choosing to look for what is right and not evil or selfish. God gave this to us, and so he already speaks to each and everyone of us in this way. Are we paying attention?

 

[docpotter]

CS Lewis was at one time an atheist . He went on to become a Christian , and an excellent author . If you Ken, or anyone else cares to check this out, here is a link to the audio version of " Mere Christianity " , in which He covers basically every scenario of Christian life, and beliefs . Its very good IMO


Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis

 

[Ken-1122]

OK, both it is ...Mind you though, this is only my opinion. No religion has 'the correct doctrine.'... so God would not speak to anyone IMO telling them that a religion that was created from the subjective values of men that put God into their own small box of thinking. is the correct one. That would lead to a question about how God would reveal who he really is to someone if not through doctrine that is passed down to someone. The answer to that is through your own experiences and the revelation of what is true as it unfolds before you. People think they can have one size fits all answers to every situation, but that is really not the case. I can 'tell' you what you should beleive, as God could... but IMO that would be foolish because you really need to discover this yourself through your perception of the information that you accumulate in your life time. This is a process. God does not want us to start with this information formed in us as concrete... If he did we would all be born with the same programing. God wants us to aquire this throuh learning and discovery. Truth and love is done the same way.

But, although I believe this to be true... we do start out with a 'map' of subjective values that guide us in this journey. We can do things that are unethical and destructive, but when we do this we know we are either lying to ourselves or pretending we are on the right path. We all really do know what path we should be on that will lead to the discovery of enlightenment and truth. We also know that we need to reflect on this. Sometimes we get lazy and don't want to, and we know when we are doing this as well. God set it up this way because he wants us to make the choices as an act of our will to find truth and intentionally act in love. We do this by choosing to look for what is right and not evil or selfish. God gave this to us, and so he already speaks to each and everyone of us in this way. Are we paying attention?

If all religions are wrong as you say, then why doesn’t God address the entire world and explain why they are wrong, and explain what is right?

The problem with your claim that we should discover what to believe through our perceptions and information accumulated throughout our life time is everybody believes the religion they are taught at birth, and their discovery remains within the confines of that particular religion; they rarely venture outside of it. They all can’t be right ya know.

The problem with your claim that everybody has a map to guide us through this journey; is that each religion has its own map and each religion thinks their map is right and all the other maps are wrong; and much pain and suffering results from this.

Now what’s the worst that can happen if God were to address the entire world and clear all this up?

Ken

 

[Reine]

If all religions are wrong as you say, then why doesn’t God address the entire world and explain why they are wrong, and explain what is right?

The problem with your claim that we should discover what to believe through our perceptions and information accumulated throughout our life time is everybody believes the religion they are taught at birth, and their discovery remains within the confines of that particular religion; they rarely venture outside of it. They all can’t be right ya know.

The problem with your claim that everybody has a map to guide us through this journey; is that each religion has its own map and each religion thinks their map is right and all the other maps are wrong; and much pain and suffering results from this.

Now what’s the worst that can happen if God were to address the entire world and clear all this up?

Ken

I don't think everyone beleives the religion that they were taught at birth, in fact I have met many people that don't. But I can't imagine anything worse than living with God's voice yelling in your ear everytime you mess up. That would be like having your mom follow you around every where you go directing you in all things :/ What do you think God really wants you to get out of religion? The knowing of the right answer? I have a brother that is a narcissistic drunk. He is always bragging about how he knows everything because he read the whole dictionary and a bunch of other stuff in prison. One day he was over bragging about how smart he was. I told him I was smarter in just one area. He was surprised and asked me what that was. I told him 'Application'. You see, God does not really care if we have all the right answers. He just wants us to look for them and apply them. If we decide we made a mistake, we just try again. He wants us to learn and to like learning. That is what is wrong with all religions. They think they have nothing to learn.

 

[razeontherock]

Agreed! When G-d was here in flesh, Jesus railed against the religious of His day, and didn't start a new religion. What do you make of that?

 

[Ken-1122]

I don't think everyone beleives the religion that they were taught at birth, in fact I have met many people that don't. But I can't imagine anything worse than living with God's voice yelling in your ear everytime you mess up. That would be like having your mom follow you around every where you go directing you in all things :/ What do you think God really wants you to get out of religion? The knowing of the right answer? I have a brother that is a narcissistic drunk. He is always bragging about how he knows everything because he read the whole dictionary and a bunch of other stuff in prison. One day he was over bragging about how smart he was. I told him I was smarter in just one area. He was surprised and asked me what that was. I told him 'Application'. You see, God does not really care if we have all the right answers. He just wants us to look for them and apply them. If we decide we made a mistake, we just try again. He wants us to learn and to like learning. That is what is wrong with all religions. They think they have nothing to learn.

The great majority of religious people remain within the religion they were born into. I was not suggesting God continuously speak from the sky on a regular basis, I was just referring to him doing it once to clear things up.
So you say God only wants us to apply the right answers? That belief means nothing and that actions and works mean everything? So if a person of the religion Zoroastrianism doesn’t even believe Jesus existed let alone being the son of God; simply applied the right answers he can go to heaven as well?

K

 

[Reine]

The great majority of religious people remain within the religion they were born into. I was not suggesting God continuously speak from the sky on a regular basis, I was just referring to him doing it once to clear things up.
So you say God only wants us to apply the right answers? That belief means nothing and that actions and works mean everything? So if a person of the religion Zoroastrianism doesn’t even believe Jesus existed let alone being the son of God; simply applied the right answers he can go to heaven as well?

K

Actions are a result that reflect what you beleive to be true. Is he listening to the innner voice of God speaking to him? If so, would he apply that in his life or ignore it? Jesus said he was the way the truth and the life and no man goes to the Father but through him. Was he saying that God expects our journey to be about finding and applying what is true... or that we must continulally reiterate the name of Jesus, 'knowing' his identity. How would saying someones name over and over again save someone, while ignoring the truth within? Why would it be necessary for God to even explain this?

 

[Reine]

Where exactly is Heaven anyway?