What’s the worst that can happen?

[Ken-1122]

Nope. Everybody becoming instant robots isn't something I've said.

If you look both ways before you cross a street, see a Mack truck coming and knowingly walk in front of it, has that violated free will?

Same with heaven and hell.

Oh that's right! I wasn't talking to you; I was talking to somebody else.
If you are gonna refute what I said to somebody else, you might wanna read back a few steps to get an idea of the conversation me and the other person is having before you jump in and defend what they are saying or refute what I am saying because my replies are usually determined by whatever opinion the person I am responding to has, not necessarily upon what I actually believe.

Ken

 

[razeontherock]

Ok, so context is not your thing. Not sure how you plan on gathering info w/o it ... (IOW YES, that reply was directly towards me, and you can't keep it straight yet have to be nasty about it)

 

[Ken-1122]

Ok, so context is not your thing. Not sure how you plan on gathering info w/o it ... (IOW YES, that reply was directly towards me, and you can't keep it straight yet have to be nasty about it)

Looking back over what I wrote, I can see how it appears I was being nasty. I didn't mean for it to sound that way. I apologize; that was not my intention

Ken

 

[norswede]

Because every atheist on the face of the planet would just say it was mass hallucination, or find some other way of explaining it away. You can't force anybody to believe something they don't want to believe.

 

[norswede]

KEN 1122 said Assuming what you say is the truth; which I doubt, so a few people will remain atheists! doesn’t sound so bad to me? Does it to you?[/SIZE][/FONT]

There have been many mass sightings of the Virgin Mary, there have been mass healings such as those that John of God performed that science hasn't been able to explain yet, there have been people who came back after being brain dead and described what went on in the emergency room, there have been documented cases of possession that science still hasn't explained plus many other miraculous events but they are all ignored because they can't be tested in a lab therefore they never happened even though millions if not billions of people have experienced them. The miracles in the Bible were the same, they happened to small groups of people, not to the whole world at one time and the same is happening today. God reveals himself when he wishes to and to whom he wishes to. He's not going to put on a circus act for all the atheists just to convince them to worship him. Prophecy is the most powerful evidence of God's existence. Below is a list of 101 prophecies that have either come to pass or are in the process of coming to pass (for instance are events that are being discussed in the news or by scientists). God gives us signs but it's up to us to either accept them or reject them. Christ will return soon enough and show himself to the whole world but by then it will be too late for those who chose to ignore the warnings.

http://www.understandthetimes.org/101prophecy.shtml

 

[Ken-1122]

Norswede (quote) “Because every atheist on the face of the planet would just say it was mass hallucination, or find some other way of explaining it away. You can't force anybody to believe something they don't want to believe.”

(reply) I would imagine quite a few Christians would be doing the same thing if the voice from the sky turned out to be the God Ahura Mazda, or Vinishu, or some other God that people worship but christians don’t. What do you think?

(quote) “There have been many mass sightings of the Virgin Mary, there have been mass healings such as those that John of God performed that science hasn't been able to explain yet

(reply) Skeptic James Randi has had a $1000,000.00 challenge for anyone who can perform a miracle, or anything outside the laws of nature under observed conditions. He has had this for at least 20 years and thus far nobody has accepted his challenge. If mass healings were taking place, all someone has to do is have Randi’s people come and observe and collect, but nobody wants to do that. Why???

(quote)He's not going to put on a circus act for all the atheists just to convince them to worship him

(reply) Actually the voice from the sky, or “circus act” as you call it would be more for the benefit of the theists, not the atheists; Us Atheists agree on the concept of God; it is you guys who can’t seem to agree on anything! The voice from the sky would clear things up for you guys; don't cha think?

Ken

 

[razeontherock]

Us Atheists agree on the concept of God;

I have encountered one atheist who did not have a distorted concept of G-d. I have seen no agreement on the concept from other atheists.

 

[docpotter]

" (reply) Actually the voice from the sky, or “circus act” as you call it would be more for the benefit of the theists, not the atheists; Us Atheists agree on the concept of God; it is you guys who can’t seem to agree on anything! The voice from the sky would clear things up for you guys; don't cha think? "

Actually , God did use his voice to tell us ALL about him in the forms of the Prophets , and in Jesus Christ . We have been given perfect information

 

[norswede]

Norswede (quote) “Because every atheist on the face of the planet would just say it was mass hallucination, or find some other way of explaining it away. You can't force anybody to believe something they don't want to believe.”

(reply) I would imagine quite a few Christians would be doing the same thing if the voice from the sky turned out to be the God Ahura Mazda, or Vinishu, or some other God that people worship but christians don’t. What do you think?

(quote) “There have been many mass sightings of the Virgin Mary, there have been mass healings such as those that John of God performed that science hasn't been able to explain yet

(reply) Skeptic James Randi has had a $1000,000.00 challenge for anyone who can perform a miracle, or anything outside the laws of nature under observed conditions. He has had this for at least 20 years and thus far nobody has accepted his challenge. If mass healings were taking place, all someone has to do is have Randi’s people come and observe and collect, but nobody wants to do that. Why???

(quote)He's not going to put on a circus act for all the atheists just to convince them to worship him

(reply) Actually the voice from the sky, or “circus act” as you call it would be more for the benefit of the theists, not the atheists; Us Atheists agree on the concept of God; it is you guys who can’t seem to agree on anything! The voice from the sky would clear things up for you guys; don't cha think?

Ken

First of all, many Christians are actually expecting an anti-christ figure to appear claiming to be Christ but we will know the truth by his words. But thanks for admitting that even if God appeared to you that you wouldn't believe it although he will be pretty hard to ignore when he does return.

Secondly, I have seen news reports on John of God and skeptics have been convinced by him as well as doctors. John of God has been all over the news and a whole Oprah show was dedicated to him. If your skeptic didn't go there himself and look into it, it sounds to me like he's the one who's scared of being proven wrong. Show me a report where he has checked it out and found a scientific explanation for everything he's done.

And lastly, We are living in times when many Christians are straying from the truth and following after new age teachings (such as Oprah and John of God. I may believe he is truly healing people but I didn't say it's from God). This accounts for the differences in the most fundamental beliefs. As for the rest, there are thousands of verses in the Bible and Christians are bound to disagree on some of them. This is why we fellowship, in order to help each other understand the word of God more fully. If you were to discuss science with a bunch of other people, chances are you wouldn't agree on everything either but most atheists agree on the basics like evolution and there are scientific facts such as gravity that everyone agrees on because it's so obvious that no one can dispute it. That is how it is with the Bible. There are certain doctrines that we all agree on that are set in stone and spelled out so obviously in the Bible that they can't be disputed and then there are those that are open to interpretation. But the basics of salvation are spelled out loud and clear in the Bible and are hard to dispute although many these days are straying even from those but that doesn't disprove the Bible, if anything it is evidence in it's favor considering Jesus himself warned us that many would stray from the faith in the last days.

 

[Ken-1122]

I have encountered one atheist who did not have a distorted concept of G-d. I have seen no agreement on the concept from other atheists.

Atheists are consistent in that they don't believe God exists

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

" (reply) Actually the voice from the sky, or “circus act” as you call it would be more for the benefit of the theists, not the atheists; Us Atheists agree on the concept of God; it is you guys who can’t seem to agree on anything! The voice from the sky would clear things up for you guys; don't cha think? "

Actually , God did use his voice to tell us ALL about him in the forms of the Prophets , and in Jesus Christ . We have been given perfect information

So how do you explain the hundreds of different religions? and within each religion there are so many different sects, denominations, and devisions? How does so much confusion come from perfect information?

Ken

 

[norswede]

Atheists are consistent in that they don't believe God exists

Ken

And theists are consistent in that they do believe that God exists and much more than that.

 

[razeontherock]

@ Ken's post # 93, the last question: None of us can fathom all of it. Consider a diamond; just one facet can reflect the same light in seemingly endless ways, depending on your POV. G-d is like that, but we are talking about a "diamond" with literally infinite facets ...

 

[Ken-1122]

And lastly, We are living in times when many Christians are straying from the truth and following after new age teachings (such as Oprah and John of God. I may believe he is truly healing people but I didn't say it's from God). This accounts for the differences in the most fundamental beliefs. As for the rest, there are thousands of verses in the Bible and Christians are bound to disagree on some of them. This is why we fellowship, in order to help each other understand the word of God more fully. If you were to discuss science with a bunch of other people, chances are you wouldn't agree on everything either but most atheists agree on the basics like evolution and there are scientific facts such as gravity that everyone agrees on because it's so obvious that no one can dispute it. That is how it is with the Bible. There are certain doctrines that we all agree on that are set in stone and spelled out so obviously in the Bible that they can't be disputed and then there are those that are open to interpretation. But the basics of salvation are spelled out loud and clear in the Bible and are hard to dispute although many these days are straying even from those but that doesn't disprove the Bible, if anything it is evidence in it's favor considering Jesus himself warned us that many would stray from the faith in the last days.

The voice from the sky I spoke of is not just for Christians, it would be for everybody! Most people are not christians ya know.

Ken

 

[docpotter]

So how do you explain the hundreds of different religions? and within each religion there are so many different sects, denominations, and devisions? How does so much confusion come from perfect information?

Ken

That is a good point Ken , but it really is mans fault not Gods. He gave us all the information we need.

Paul writes about the division of Christians just 50 or 60 years after the death of Christ. He also writes about people " preaching Christ for profit " . So my answer to you would be men have corrupt motives , and short memories. God parted the Red Sea and before long the Jews were complaining and worshiping a golden calf.

So God would maybe say to you , I have spoken , some listened , many did not .

 

[Ken-1122]

That is a good point Ken , but it really is mans fault not Gods. He gave us all the information we need.

Paul writes about the division of Christians just 50 or 60 years after the death of Christ. He also writes about people " preaching Christ for profit " . So my answer to you would be men have corrupt motives , and short memories. God parted the Red Sea and before long the Jews were complaining and worshiping a golden calf.

So God would maybe say to you , I have spoken , some listened , many did not .

Or maybe this "perfect information" you speak of isn't quote so perfect after all! Now a voice from the sky..... I don't know if it will be perfect, but it will be a heck of a lot better than what you have now

K

 

[oi_antz]

Or maybe this "perfect information" you speak of isn't quote so perfect after all! Now a voice from the sky..... I don't know if it will be perfect, but it will be a heck of a lot better than what you have now

K

Obviously God has decided that it doesn't need to be better than what we have now. Have you considered why He might make that decision? If God is good which He says He is, then there must be a good reason for it. What do you think that [good] reason could be?

 

[Matariki]

Hey YOU were the one who made the ridicules claim that if God addressed the entire world, he would have to repeat the event every time a person is born! Go back to page 1 and read what you wrote; Are you ready to take that back now?

Alright, alright, there's no need to be defensive over it.
I take back anything that was wrong, but I won't take anything back that was relevant to the discussion.

If a voice came from the sky claiming to be God, with today’s technology we would confirm that this was not a hoax and that the voice is not from this planet.

Given time, I'm sure down the track this would be debunked or declared as something else. For an example: Jesus preformed miracles, now 2000 years later we have the 'Jesus myth', declaring he never existed to begin with.

Now, the question is, when God speaks, is it external or internal?
Though God is capable of both, speaking externally is the exception, not the rule. In Christianity, God has chosen to speak to the masses through the bible as according to scripture:

Isaiah 55:11
2 Timothy 3:16 - 17

If a voice came from the sky to clear up all the misunderstandings everyone has of God, there would be a consensus of what God wants; rather than confusion and debate like you have now. Why do you people have a problem with that?

To be honest, I think it would bring about even more confusion. If God were to speak audibly, what should he say? What would you want him to say? Every individual has their own questions and their own doubts that needs to be addressed. A written word has more of a chance of successfully achieving that purpose. I don't have a problem with God declaring himself audibly, but Christians have to respect why he does or doesn't. After you hear him, next you would want to see him, after you see him, he must prove himself by remaining seen, to prove his divinity he must preform more and more extravagant miracles to satisfy etc. Though a simple request, God then becomes a servant rather than a master. God has already demonstrated his humility through Christ. Faith in his word (for the Christian) cuts right through these expectations.

Or as C.S Lewis put it:
I gave in, and admitted that God was God.

I should of explained this right from the first post...

 

[Matariki]

@Matariki, Iakobos is not a troll, he is a newbie who has obviously not been properly enlightened yet. Please be patient with him as you would with yourself if you were in his position.

I never said he was a troll, but I did imply with study in basic theology he would find answers to his questions (whether it be 'the' answer is up to him whether or not he chooses to accept it). My advice those asking is 'Don't be afraid to search for the answer online first'. Chances are people far more knowledgeable than myself or anyone else here have already answered the questions. I'm just a bit tired at the moment.

 

[oi_antz]

I never said he was a troll, but I did imply with study in basic theology he would find answers to his questions (whether it be 'the' answer is up to him whether or not he chooses to accept it). My advice those asking is 'Don't be afraid to search for the answer online first'. Chances are people far more knowledgeable than myself or anyone else here have already answered the questions. I'm just a bit tired at the moment.

Yeah sorry about that, just the way I read it from his perspective seemed as though you were not patient enough to address him. My mistake.