Western Rite

Status
Not open for further replies.
W

WhatIsTruth

Guest
I was looking around online last night and saw the Western Rite of the Orthodox Church (admittedly it mainly spoke of the Antiochian Orthodox Church)...

I was mainly wanting to know what liturgy(s) they use and if anyone could provide me a link to a copy of one so I could read one...

I have an odd interest in reading different kinds of liturgies from churches.....
 

nicodemus

Orthodox Christian
Nov 21, 2003
1,434
61
48
Florida
Visit site
✟16,914.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You may want to check out these pages for more info:

http://www.antiochian.org/western-rite/

http://www.westernorthodox.com/western-rite

The Antiochian Orthodox in the US are the only ones (I think) that administer Western Rite parishes:

http://www.antiochian.org/1298

There's one near me in Florida that I've been meaning to visit for a while. I'm fine with (and love) the Eastern Rite, but I'd like to become more familiar with the Western Rite just as a point of being more educated about our Western style brothers and sisters.

This page has some specifics about the Liturgy at this particular parish:

http://www.antiochian.org/southwest_region/colorado/denver/st_mark_church

Let us know if there's anything else we can help you with!
 
Upvote 0

InnerPhyre

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2003
14,573
1,470
✟71,967.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
WhatIsTruth said:
What is exactly is that supposed to mean....Forgive my not understanding you.


Orthodox look at Eastern Catholics as Catholics pretending to be Orthodox. The more I learn about Western Rite Orthodox, the more they start to look like Orthodox pretending to be Catholic :)
 
Upvote 0
W

WhatIsTruth

Guest
Again...forgive for being bold, but I think all this suspicion kind of stands in the way of any church/christian unity.

Maybe if we spent less time wondering whose pretending to be whom we'd be better off.

But (since the church I hope to be confirmed in is an eastern rite church) I would like to know what makes you think we are pretending to be Orthodox?

I'm not trying to debate, but these issues where brought up and I would like answers.
 
Upvote 0

Alexis OCA

Secrecy and Accountability Cannot Co-Exist
Sep 22, 2004
1,869
83
✟2,466.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
WhatIsTruth said:
Again...forgive for being bold, but I think all this suspicion kind of stands in the way of any church/christian unity.

Maybe if we spent less time wondering whose pretending to be whom we'd be better off.

But (since the church I hope to be confirmed in is an eastern rite church) I would like to know what makes you think we are pretending to be Orthodox?

I'm not trying to debate, but these issues where brought up and I would like answers.

I am assuming you are questioning InnerPhyre. Since you are catholic and InnerPhyre is catholic feel free to move your challenge offline or to another forum. ;) Sorry if I am overstepping my bounds here but this looks like a potential death spiral.
 
Upvote 0

Xpycoctomos

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2004
10,133
679
45
Midwest
✟13,419.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Comparing the Eastern Catholics and the Western Orthodox is almost impossible to do although their names make it very tempting to assume they are just eachothers exact counterparts.

Western Orthodoxy is an attempt to baptize western Culture... make it Orthodox. The forms and styles may be western, but the doctrine is to 100% Orthodox (and yes, of eastern origen, mainly because we were not able to have a proper development in the west so, as of yet, we have a very small feel of how Orthodox doctrine might have been expressed in the West, so they have to depend almost entirely on the Eastern Saints because of the Schism. Orthodoxy is not so much the clothing and the looks (although there is a certain mentality and spirit that must be common among all of our rituals, regardless of Rite) but about the common doctrine we express.

The difference with Eastern Catholicism is that it took people who were Orthodox, had them (by their own willingness I must assume) be put under the pope, accepting as VALID all Western beliefs, many of which were honestly incompatable with Eastern thought (even if they didn't have to teach them) while still being allowed to hold on to their Eastern Way of thinking (even when incompatable with Western teaching).

This is simply not so with the Western Orthodox Church. These are people fully willing and desiring to adhere to the wisdom of ONLY the Orthodox Church (and by obligation of Historical events, Eastern, other than preschism Western saints) and are not in anyway to integrate Western beliefs into their doctrine, for their doctrine is our doctrine and our doctrine is their doctrine. Judgements aside, the origin of these two Rites is not simply the antithesis of the other. One is fully and integrally a part of the Orthodox Church with no contradiction to "work out" (at least not in theory, as to abuses, I don't know if their are... but differences in theology would be seen as a problem to be solved, not an issue to be compromised on), the other was grafted on the the Catholic Church who has certainly had a number of issues to "work out" over the centuries.

I don't know if I'm explaining myself right here. Do you see the difference and that it is very fundamental? I am really not trying to defend one more than the other (at least not in this post). Depending on the person, one could see the Eastern Catholic situation as more noble while another may see the Western Orthodox situation as more noble. But either way, they hold very little in common. (and this post really doesn't serve to refute or defend either movement.)

John
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

nicodemus

Orthodox Christian
Nov 21, 2003
1,434
61
48
Florida
Visit site
✟16,914.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Here's my take on things (for whatever it's worth...which is admittedly, probably not much :p )

anyway....

I personally am not hung up about which rite is used (though I prefer the eastern rite.) There's historical evidence that multiple rites were in use pre-schism. The beliefs and theology are the issue for me, not the other stuff. I feel more comfortable in the eastern setting, but if a western rite parish was all that was available and the beliefs were the same, I'd gladly attend it.

This is pure conjecture on my part, but eventhough different rites were in use, they were probably still recognizable as being part of the same church. I can't imagine they were so different that someone from Constantinople would've been lost at a service in Rome and vice versa.
 
Upvote 0

Xpycoctomos

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2004
10,133
679
45
Midwest
✟13,419.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Not that my last post was regarding how I felt about the WR, but I agree with Nicodemus. If there were only a WR close to me and I had to drive for like an hour or more to go to an ER, I would most assuredly attend a WR, at least as my regular Church. Orthodox is Orthodox.

For the record, I don't think that any Orthodox (who's worth listening to) has a problem wtih their being different rites per se. This is not at all what all the uproar is regarding the WR. Some people have a problem with WR because it was not organically created. It was kind of ressurrected out of it's past, put together like a puzzle missing a good thousand years of development. Many argue that while it is unfortunate that the Orthodox Church does not have an organically created western rite, we should accept that and let the Easter Rite slowly (over many centuries) develop its own organic response to Western Culture that is Orthodox at heart and whose expression came out of generations of Orthodox faithful, holding a direct continuity with its past. The greatest liturgies usually have evolved and have had a continuity with its faithful, not jsut spring up after centuries of disuse.

But, perhaps this development was necessary. I am hardly in any place to judge the WR in that 1) I have never attended, unfortunately and 2) I am certainly not humble or wise enough to discern the goodness of this movements so, I will concede to the bishops of the Antiochian Church and trust that they know what they are doing.

John
 
Upvote 0
W

WhatIsTruth

Guest
Alexis OCA said:
I am assuming you are questioning InnerPhyre. Since you are catholic and InnerPhyre is catholic feel free to move your challenge offline or to another forum. ;) Sorry if I am overstepping my bounds here but this looks like a potential death spiral.

Thank you for being so welcoming. I'll go back where "I belong" now.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
W

WhatIsTruth

Guest
I really didn't mean for this to turn into a debate. I really do not care whether or not people approve of Western Orthodoxy or whether people here approve of Eastern Rite Catholic Churches. Though I must admit, it bugs me that all Orthodox that I meet seem so suspicious of anything. That happens to be why I didn't go through with Chrismation classes at an Orthodox church near where I used to live. If anyone wants to know what happend they can PM but I need to get back on topic and look in on dinner so I"ll just say one other thing..

All I asked for was some links about Western Orthodoxy and manuscripts of the different liturgies. I thank Nicodemus for his help. If anyone else would be so kind to help I would appreciate it.
 
Upvote 0
R

Rilian

Guest
WhatIsTruth said:
Though I must admit, it bugs me that all Orthodox that I meet seem so suspicious of anything.

I'm sorry to hear about your experience. The Orthodox people I have met have been wonderful and welcomed my family and I with open arms.

I think many Orthodox people come from cultures and have experiences very different than ours, which perhaps accounts for the way they approach their faith.

[Also, I think Alexis was just trying to make sure this didn't turn in to a debate. I think he was just being cautious given the board rules.]
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.