Westboro

[Marysmuse]

Has anyone else had members of other forums throw Westboro up as an example of conservative or fundamental Christians?

I have, and it makes me crazy.

(If you're not familiar, Westboro Baptist Church members are the ones rioting up and down the countryside, picketing at soldier's funerals with signs saying things like "God hates ***s" and "Thank God for 9-11")
ROFLOL @ the filter!!!!!! "Wash my mouth", that's hysterical.

Now, don't get me wrong, I am conservative in my views. If a believer is struggling with same-sex attraction, I'm going to recommend counseling, not placing an ad on Match.com to find themselves a "life partner". (that's putting my views simply for the sake of brevity.)

However, I can not see WBC's actions as anything but hate-speech hiding behind religion. At best, they make me sad. At worst, when I'm discussing religion with a mixed audience, and someone posts a picture of the protesters, it makes me furious that God's people could be so callous and foolish. (The first time I saw those photos, I honestly thought they were photo-shopped.)

Anyway, that's my opinion.
Back to the topic, has anyone else run into this? What do you say, when people say "FundyChristians = WBC, lol"?

Rejoicing in the day,
-Mary

 

[StreetPreacher82]

WBC is nothing but a cook fringe group. Honestly, not only do they makes conservative look bad, but also the Calvinists as they claim (or at least used to) to be Calvinist. What a sick, morally bankrupt group of folks. Very sad.

 

[Hentenza]

Some atheist use the WBC as a reason for their unbelief. The WBC is not a Christian church but a cult. They drive souls away from Christ. What gets me incensed is that they chose 'baptist" as part of their name so I've had to explain that one on many occasions.

 

[ReformedChapin]

WBC is nothing but a cook fringe group. Honestly, not only do they makes conservative look bad, but also the Calvinists as they claim (or at least used to) to be Calvinist. What a sick, morally bankrupt group of folks. Very sad.

Indeed

 

[longhair75]

Some atheist use the WBC as a reason for their unbelief. The WBC is not a Christian church but a cult. They drive souls away from Christ. What gets me incensed is that they chose 'baptist" as part of their name so I've had to explain that one on many occasions.

From this document

When it came time for Phelps' ordination, "we put him through the paces because of his young age," McAlister said. "We feared for him because of his youth." Phelps was 17, at least three years younger than most ministers when ordained.

McAlister, who has helped ordain hundreds, described the ordination process: An examination board of 10 to 20 ministers asks a candidate questions about doctrine and scripture. Not everyone passes.

Phelps did. He was ordained Sept. 8, 1947, and then returned to Bob Jones University as a Southern Baptist minister.

It would seem that Reverend Fred Phelps is indeed an ordained Baptist Minister....

 

[Nadiine]

Has anyone else had members of other forums throw Westboro up as an example of conservative or fundamental Christians?

I have, and it makes me crazy.

(If you're not familiar, Westboro Baptist Church members are the ones rioting up and down the countryside, picketing at soldier's funerals with signs saying things like "God hates ***s" and "Thank God for 9-11")
ROFLOL @ the filter!!!!!! "Wash my mouth", that's hysterical.

Now, don't get me wrong, I am conservative in my views. If a believer is struggling with same-sex attraction, I'm going to recommend counseling, not placing an ad on Match.com to find themselves a "life partner". (that's putting my views simply for the sake of brevity.)

However, I can not see WBC's actions as anything but hate-speech hiding behind religion. At best, they make me sad. At worst, when I'm discussing religion with a mixed audience, and someone posts a picture of the protesters, it makes me furious that God's people could be so callous and foolish. (The first time I saw those photos, I honestly thought they were photo-shopped.)

Anyway, that's my opinion.
Back to the topic, has anyone else run into this? What do you say, when people say "FundyChristians = WBC, lol"?

Rejoicing in the day,
-Mary

Oh gosh, all the time Mary!

All it takes is 1 loon or deviant that claims to be a Christian
and that will be the posterchild for conservative Christianity.

The stereotypes are everywhere and we all get slapped with
that label - same with "pharisees" too.

My belief on it is that they're in rebellion to Jesus Christ, not us.
And since we are His servants, we won't get treated any better
than Him and will be attacked falsely for His name's sake.

I consider it an honor to be attacked and maligned becuz it's
exactly what they did to Him.
(not that the world would agree or see that they're attacking
Christ since they like to label themselves as spiritual and good
and that Jesus was a "good man").

 

[Nadiine]

WBC is nothing but a cook fringe group. Honestly, not only do they makes conservative look bad, but also the Calvinists as they claim (or at least used to) to be Calvinist. What a sick, morally bankrupt group of folks. Very sad.

 

[catlover]

From this document



It would seem that Reverend Fred Phelps is indeed an ordained Baptist Minister....

They have not revoked his ordination?

Bob Jones University-didn't Alan Keyes speak at that university?

 

[longhair75]

Friend Catlover,

from that same document:

Today, Nelson and McAlister share Phelps' anti-homosexual sentiments. But, "I question his wisdom as to his being so zealous," McAlister said.

Despite being ordained as a Southern Baptist minister, Phelps touts himself as a Primitive Baptist preacher and an Old School preacher. No rules prevent him from switching denominations, said Mark Coppenger, an official with the Southern Baptist Convention in Nashville, Tenn.

"I was ordained by the First Baptist Church of Vernal, Utah," Phelps says. "There is no such thing as being ordained by the Southern Baptists. You are ordained by the Baptist church. I went to that church, and we liked each other. They baptized me in a mountain stream that was cold and ordained me."

Phelps says he hasn't missed a Sunday preaching lesson since. "So the hunch was good," he said. "If the call was good, it never goes away."

I admit a lack of knowledge on how the Baptist church deals with issues like this. Do they have some sort of central authorative body who would be able to revoke his ordination? From my reading here at CF, it does not appear to be the case. (I may be misunderstanding this.)

Were I a member of the Baptist Church, I would be writing letters to this body, if it exists, to voice my concerns about Reverend Phelps

 

[Marysmuse]

Well, being connected with BJU explains a lot. I wasn't aware of that connection. Unfortunately BJU is also known as walking very close to the "fringe", though they are more to the side of common sense than WBC.

Thank you, knowing that I will do some more research. I can only answer false accusations with truth- that Phelps and his ilk do not represent the larger Body of Christ, any more than a tumor is a "natural" part of a physical body.

Rejoicing in the day,
-Mary

 

[porterross]

Did y'all know that the British authorities refused to allow Phelps and/or his followers to enter the UK? Seems they don't want his hate speech spewed there.

Now, as much as I hate the idea of squashing someone's freedom of speech, the fact that these people aren't British citizens means that the gov't was well within its rights to deny them entry as their sole purpose was to incite unrest. Why were they wanting to come to Britain, anyway? They wouldn't have enjoyed any manner of welcome.

Times article

 

[catlover]

Well, being connected with BJU explains a lot. I wasn't aware of that connection. Unfortunately BJU is also known as walking very close to the "fringe", though they are more to the side of common sense than WBC.

Thank you, knowing that I will do some more research. I can only answer false accusations with truth- that Phelps and his ilk do not represent the larger Body of Christ, any more than a tumor is a "natural" part of a physical body.

Rejoicing in the day,
-Mary

Bob Jones University forbade interracial dating at one point in time....less than 11 or so years ago.

 

[catlover]

Friend Catlover,

from that same document:



I admit a lack of knowledge on how the Baptist church deals with issues like this. Do they have some sort of central authorative body who would be able to revoke his ordination? From my reading here at CF, it does not appear to be the case. (I may be misunderstanding this.)

Were I a member of the Baptist Church, I would be writing letters to this body, if it exists, to voice my concerns about Reverend Phelps

You may have a point with the individual congregation having the authority. But didn't the Southern Baptists unamiously condemn Jimmy Carter or did he reject them?

I forget the specifics.

 

[Nadiine]

Well, the Episcopals haven't revoked Gene Robinson who's
a practicing homosexual.

Not sure if that denom. wants to be recognized entirely for
support of it, but they haven't bothered all the same.

I don't think it matters, no Christians I know (incl. fundamentalists)
are in any agreement w/ Phelp's methods or beliefs.

 

[longhair75]

Friend Catlover,

Our Roman Catholic brothers and sisters have a mechanism in place where there is central authority that can "defrock" a priest; that is to reverse his ministerial ordination. My own Episcopal Church has a similar body in authority. From what I understand of our Baptist friends, ministers are not subject to a central authority with those powers.

I do not remember the Southern Baptists condemning Mr. Carter, but can they unanimously remove Reverend Phelps from the ministry? One would suspect it would have no effect on Rev. Phelps. He would continue on as he pleases. However, the fact that he remains an ordained Baptist minister has a damaging effect on the rest of the ministry.

 

[longhair75]

Friend Nadine,

True enough. We Episcopalians have not removed Bishop Robinson. There is a pretty large ongoing dispute about this within our denomination. It heats up every once in a while here on CF in the STR forum.

Bishop Robinson is openly homosexual and a sinner. I am a committed heterosexual in a marriage sanctified by God, and a sinner as well. The sole purpose of Reverend Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church is to spew hatred. I am sure their sins are forgiven as well as ours.

 

[Nadiine]

Friend Catlover,

Our Roman Catholic brothers and sisters have a mechanism in place where there is central authority that can "defrock" a priest; that is to reverse his ministerial ordination. My own Episcopal Church has a similar body in authority. From what I understand of our Baptist friends, ministers are not subject to a central authority with those powers.

I do not remember the Southern Baptists condemning Mr. Carter, but can they unanimously remove Reverend Phelps from the ministry? One would suspect it would have no effect on Rev. Phelps. He would continue on as he pleases. However, the fact that he remains an ordained Baptist minister has a damaging effect on the rest of the ministry.

The RCC has a bad reputation with this due to the child
molestation/pedophilia cases it tried to hide and didn't correctly
deal with tho.
I think they have reputation problems as well.

I see this issue being leveled against Catholicism all the time.

 

[longhair75]

Friend Nadine,

The RCC has a bad reputation with this due to the child
molestation/pedophilia cases it tried to hide and didn't correctly
deal with tho.
I think they have reputation problems as well.

I see this issue being leveled against Catholicism all the time.

Once again, I say true enough. I was raised a Roman Catholic, and left the Church during our local chapter of the scandal. The way Rome has handled this problem has don irreparable damage to their credibility.

 

[Nadiine]

Friend Nadine,



Once again, I say true enough. I was raised a Roman Catholic, and left the Church during our local chapter of the scandal. The way Rome has handled this problem has don irreparable damage to their credibility.

And I think it's tragic too - especially in days like we live where
moral boundaries are being trampled down, we need a strong
Christian influence and authoratative figure.

I think this is just a sign of the times where respect and reverance
for God and His statutes have erroded away anymore.
It isn't enough for people to stand firm in the faith and witness
God's truth, they just don't care becuz their desires are what
are most important to them in general.

I think we can see this in
2 Tim 3
1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[catlover]

It appears Jimmy Carter left the denomination:


ATLANTA, Oct. 20 (UPI)--Former President Jimmy Carter, the son of a Southern Baptist Sunday school teacher, has disassociated himself from the nation's largest Protestant denomination and criticized its "increasingly rigid creed."

"I have finally decided that, after 65 years, I can no longer be associated with the Southern Baptist Convention," the 76-year-old former president said in a letter mailed to 75,000 Baptists nationwide on Thursday by a group of moderate Texas Baptists.

Carter said the Southern Baptist Convention, which has almost 16 million members, has adopted policies "that violate the basic premises of my Christian faith," including a denominational statement that prohibits women from being pastors and tells wives to be submissive to their husbands.

He said the "most disturbing" reason he and his wife decided to disassociate themselves from the Southern Baptist Convention was the elimination of language in June that identifies Jesus Christ as "the criterion by which the Bible is to be interpreted."

Carter began teaching Sunday school at age 18 when he was a Naval Academy cadet. He continued to teach while he was Georgia's governor and the U.S. president.

http://www.adherents.com/largecom/baptist_SBC_Carter.html