Were humans created immortal?

[ohtoseehisface]

• • Genesis 2:16-17 - And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die."
  • Genesis 3:1-6 Now the serpent was more subtle than any other wild creature that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God say, 'You shall not eat of any tree of the garden'?" 2 And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but God said, 'You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'" 4 But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband, and he ate.
  • Romans 5:12 - Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned--
  • Romans 5:17 - If, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
  • Rom 8:19-22 "For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. "For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, "Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now."

So what do we do with these passages and others referring to death entering because of sin???

I am not exactly sure to be honest. Is it physical death? Is it spiritual death? Is it both? Surely though the Bible does indicate that a death of some kind did occur to Adam and Eve with the fall.

 

[Greg1234]

Are you OK? You seems to be confused.

Yes, the first man was Adam, the sinful Adam who lived outside the Garden.

There is context of life and death and why Adam was called a "living being" and "dead" after the fall. It is important to note that spiritual death and physical death are one and the same. Physical death (as well as a few other disturbances) is the result of spiritual death. You can also find it in various passages in the New Testament.

Adam being a "living soul" means that he was "alive". Jesus, a life giving spirit- to make alive, to give life.

Note also the difference here. Even after the creation of man in the first chapter, the second says that there was still no man to till the ground. Genesis 1 documents the first creation of man in the image and likeness of God. God is spirit and the first man is also spirit. However, the first earthly man in Gen 2 was tasked with earthly generation, and partaking in the laws of the earth to fulfill that task, being of the earth.

The second man from heaven, leading man away from the earth through heavenly generation, partaking in spiritual law to fulfill said task. Being of the earth and spirit does not mean that one had flesh and the other did not, nor does it mean that one was mortal and the other not.

 

[juvenissun]

Actually, after the Fall, Adam and Eve couldn't "jump up and run to that tree" because God banned them from the Garden for the express reason that they couldn't eat from the Tree of Life.

No. There were a period of time went in between. They had ENOUGH time to grab the fruit and revert the death. Read Gen 3 again.

 

[juvenissun]

Confused? You are the one who seems to be talking about two Adams. Then again that's what Philo thought so you are in good company. Paul also talked of two Adams but the other one was Jesus. You are talking about two different Adams aren't you?

Anyway, did you notice how Paul was quoting from scripture?
1Cor 15:45 Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being";
Paul is quoting from Genesis 2
Gen 2:7 then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
This is the Adam God put in the garden. Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, and there he put the man whom he had formed. He lived in the garden until he sinned.

Yes, you are confused. I never thought there were two Adams. There is one Adam goes through time. Earlier in the Garden, and later outside the Garden. Admitted that he, in fact, became an entirely different person in the latter case.

Whatever message in the New Testament refers to the later Adam. Nevertheless, the later Adam is still the first man.

It is not good that I need to explain this to a smart guy like you.

 

[jpcedotal]

We are talking about physical immortality, right? The part the is "you" has a beginning, but not a end...there will always be a "you".

 

[Research3]

Hi folks,

My question is:

When God created man and woman in the garden, were they designed to be immortal? I know that they were created in God's image, therefore, spiritual and eternal beings. Does that mean physically?

I can see the argument for immortality because once sin was introduced, death was also introduced, thus putting a cap on human life.

I'd like to hear your thoughts. Please explain what you think and possibly some Scripture references please. Thank you!

This may help -

Minority view - Man was first mortal
Majority view - Man was first immortal

Other view -

Adam and Eve were created mortal and were to become immortal after a period of probation in the garden.

This view was held by Theophilus of Antioch. Augustine held to a variation of this view in which the bodies of Adam and Eve, though created mortal, were preserved from decay and lustful desires by being able to feed on the Tree of Life. Exclusion from the Tree of Life after the Fall therefore resulted in human death. Had Adam and Eve not fallen they would have have been immortal.

 

[Assyrian]

Yes, you are confused. I never thought there were two Adams. There is one Adam goes through time. Earlier in the Garden, and later outside the Garden. Admitted that he, in fact, became an entirely different person in the latter case.

Whatever message in the New Testament refers to the later Adam. Nevertheless, the later Adam is still the first man.

It is not good that I need to explain this to a smart guy like you.

Ah so you were just talking about Adam after he was kicked out of the garden. Perhaps you need to be clearer.

Anyway, all of the references I mentioned show Paul was talking about Adam when he was created. If flesh and blood could not inherit the kingdom of God then Adam could not have inherited the kingdom while he was still flesh and blood in the garden. Paul quotes the creation of Adam, and talks of him being of dust from the earth. Paul is talking about how Adam was when he was created, and says we are just like him.

 

[juvenissun]

Ah so you were just talking about Adam after he was kicked out of the garden. Perhaps you need to be clearer.

Anyway, all of the references I mentioned show Paul was talking about Adam when he was created. If flesh and blood could not inherit the kingdom of God then Adam could not have inherited the kingdom while he was still flesh and blood in the garden. Paul quotes the creation of Adam, and talks of him being of dust from the earth. Paul is talking about how Adam was when he was created, and says we are just like him.

As I am writing my argument, I gradually discovered that in order to answer this question, we must explore a more fundamental question. Why would God want to create human? He starts with one, not a spiritual one like an angel, but one has flesh in addition to spirit. Then He gives him a companion. And then God puts them at a special place and wait for their failure of obeying. Is this a strange way of creating something? God obviously has no intention to let these two fleshes inherit the Kingdom at all.

So, if God creates human with a special purpose in His mind, then that special purpose would determine if the original two persons are immortal or not. Let’s assume that God is waiting for their failure, or in another word, waiting for their “suicide”, then God should give enough time to let it happen. This period of time is uncertain, because God let them to decide when will it happen.
As a consequence, I would suggest that Adam and Eve are immortal in the Garden before the sin. Otherwise, they may age and die before they sinned.

 

[Assyrian]

As I am writing my argument, I gradually discovered that in order to answer this question, we must explore a more fundamental question. Why would God want to create human? He starts with one, not a spiritual one like an angel, but one has flesh in addition to spirit. Then He gives him a companion. And then God puts them at a special place and wait for their failure of obeying. Is this a strange way of creating something? God obviously has no intention to let these two fleshes inherit the Kingdom at all.

I think it is just that he didn't intend us to inherit the kingdom through obeying a set of laws, but by grace through faith. Remember the gospel was God plan from before the foundation of the world.

So, if God creates human with a special purpose in His mind, then that special purpose would determine if the original two persons are immortal or not. Let’s assume that God is waiting for their failure, or in another word, waiting for their “suicide”, then God should give enough time to let it happen. This period of time is uncertain, because God let them to decide when will it happen.
As a consequence, I would suggest that Adam and Eve are immortal in the Garden before the sin. Otherwise, they may age and die before they sinned.

We don't.

 

[Dark_Lite]

Hi folks,

My question is:

When God created man and woman in the garden, were they designed to be immortal? I know that they were created in God's image, therefore, spiritual and eternal beings. Does that mean physically?

I can see the argument for immortality because once sin was introduced, death was also introduced, thus putting a cap on human life.

I'd like to hear your thoughts. Please explain what you think and possibly some Scripture references please. Thank you!

There is nothing in the Scriptures to indicate that before the Fall there was some kind of immortal world where there was no disease or physical death. On the other hand, there are several indications that physical death was present. Immortal people don't need to eat food (which kills that food, by the way).

 

[juvenissun]

I think it is just that he didn't intend us to inherit the kingdom through obeying a set of laws, but by grace through faith. Remember the gospel was God plan from before the foundation of the world.

We don't.

I would like to hear from you on how would that work. Do you mean the Gospel was there before the earth, sun, human was created?

I know the Scripture says that. But I like to know how would you make sense of it. One fact came to my mind is that Adam is the last thing God created.

 

[juvenissun]

There is nothing in the Scriptures to indicate that before the Fall there was some kind of immortal world where there was no disease or physical death. On the other hand, there are several indications that physical death was present. Immortal people don't need to eat food (which kills that food, by the way).

Adam does not NEED to eat.

Are you constantly aware of how many lives have you killed everyday by cutting them and chewing them (lettuce, tomatos etc.)? Why not? Would you have the same easy feeling if you cut apart one chicken per day?

 

[Assyrian]

I would like to hear from you on how would that work. Do you mean the Gospel was there before the earth, sun, human was created?

I know the Scripture says that. But I like to know how would you make sense of it.

As you said, scripture says it. Why is it a problem that God knew what he was doing? If you are looking at God's eternal plans you do have to take account of his foreknowledge.

One fact came to my mind is that Adam is the last thing God created.

I thought it was Eve? Don't see how this is a faction, the gospel was planned long before that. From the foundation of the world and all that.

 

[juvenissun]

As you said, scripture says it. Why is it a problem that God knew what he was doing? If you are looking at God's eternal plans you do have to take account of his foreknowledge.

I thought it was Eve? Don't see how this is a faction, the gospel was planned long before that. From the foundation of the world and all that.

I always want to know. And Christianity is so different from any other religion in that Christianity not only gives a lot of hints to the unknown, but it encourages people to explore the unknowns.

In fact, in my recognition system, this issue is closely related to another question which took me a few decades to understand: We all know God loves us so much. But WHY? Why would God want to love us? If the Gospel is set before (or during) the creation, then God must love us since then. Why would God want to love something so hard which He has not even created?

If you want to create something which you will love really hard even it might cost you something very important, what kind of thing would you want to create? Consider the cost, do you still want to create it? (sounds like something called wife? )

 

[Assyrian]

You mean like the bride of Christ being foreknown and foreordained from before the foundations of the world?

 

[theFijian]

Adam certainly can eat the fruit from the Tree of Life. The fruit won't make him any different. That is why God did not forbid him to eat from that tree. And Adam probably couldn't care less about that tree. Notice that he and Eve did not jump up and run to that tree after they sinned.

Presupposing a literal interpretation (as you do) Adam and Eve were more concerned about hiding from God after they had sinned, they were then prevented from eating from the Tree of Life after their expulsion from Eden, sounds like they really would have cared about that tree!

Tree of Life is also in Heaven. But we will not care about it either. Do we still need food in the Heaven? I don't think Adam actually needs to eat to live in the Garden. Can you simply eat fruits all day all the time?

The tree of Life will certainly be in Heaven and we will most definitely care about it! (because it is not a literal tree, it is Christ)

Rev 22:3 - The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:14 - Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life
Rev 22:19 - ...and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life

 

[theFijian]

You mean like the bride of Christ being foreknown and foreordained from before the foundations of the world?

He is "the lamb slain from the creation of the world". Amen!

 

[Dark_Lite]

Adam does not NEED to eat.

And the Scriptural indication for that is ... where? People eat for survival. Food gives the body energy. There is nothing to suggest that Adam only ate just because he felt like it. It is said that God gave Adam food to eat. Nowhere does it say God gave Adam food to eat when he felt like it.

Are you constantly aware of how many lives have you killed everyday by cutting them and chewing them (lettuce, tomatos etc.)? Why not? Would you have the same easy feeling if you cut apart one chicken per day?

What does that have to do with anything? Humans eat other organisms to live. So what?

 

[juvenissun]

You mean like the bride of Christ being foreknown and foreordained from before the foundations of the world?

I mean relationship. Our relationship to God.

It is not stretching to assume that when God creates, He has a purpose, which is to create something which will have the closest relationship to Him. With this purpose, He creates everything around the purpose. This also explains why is Eve )) the last one to create. The last one showed up is usually the most important.

This is not easy. Simply think how could you create a wife or a son or a daughter who will love you so much and so faithfully with all the temptations in this world.

 

[juvenissun]

Presupposing a literal interpretation (as you do) Adam and Eve were more concerned about hiding from God after they had sinned, they were then prevented from eating from the Tree of Life after their expulsion from Eden, sounds like they really would have cared about that tree!


The tree of Life will certainly be in Heaven and we will most definitely care about it! (because it is not a literal tree, it is Christ)

Rev 22:3 - The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:14 - Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life
Rev 22:19 - ...and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life

You forgot the first two verses:

22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

According to that, there are many trees of life. And God and the Lamb are somewhere else.

Of course, I would agree with you that we may think the tree "represents" the Christ. But we don't have to.