Were any other guys kinda disturbed by this?

[Paradoxum]

This is kind of how I feel. I actually have a pretty dark sense of humor, but when the victim of something is a real human being, there's something deeply wrong about laughing at their expense.

I get what you mean. I do. I see how it can be hard to separate.

But I also find it possible to separate the victim from the absurdity of the situation. The crime itself becoming a prop in the joke, but not actually at the victim's expense.

And I do not feel that anyone should regret or be made to feel about about a joke or what humor they find in a joke. That includes Sharon here, Tosh's jokes that got him in trouble, anyone.

I don't know... it doesn't sit well with me morally, but I know I might be wrong.

You're not wrong, it's just that people are so uptight these days.

There's a theory that we find things most funny that are related to reproduction and bodily health--hence, why there's so much penis- and bathroom-humor. We make jokes about it because it breaks the tension. It keeps us from having to remember that we could get sick tomorrow or be mauled by a bear today.

It's less a I'm glad that guy got hurt and more a I'm celebrating that I'm still alive and thriving.

If the woman had cut off the man's nose or his foot or his ear instead of his penis, I doubt that we'd be having this discussion, so maybe there's something to that idea.

You're just explaining why people find it funny, not why it's okay. Perhaps we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Skaloop]

You'd have a point if she wasn't a despicable human being.

But the quality of her character has nothing to do with my point.

I was just pointing out that he wrote about how valid MRA issues are being clouded by misogynistic and foul language, then immediately proceeds to use misogynistic and foul language to describe Sharon.

I am not even saying he's wrong about her. I don't know. But his choice of word and the context in which he used it didn't align with his apparent desire to minimize misogynistic and foul language when discussing MRA issues.

If he had called her despicable like you just did, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But he chose to use harlot right after he denounced MRAs who use words like harlot.

 

[Nithavela]

So... y'all want to get outraged by something that nobody actually did. Okie dokie.


This is kinda funny. Mocking a rape victim or a female mutilation victim isn't funny. The reason for the disparity is that women are raped or mutilated every day, but you don't often hear about a dude getting his little Elvis cut. A widespread problem is taken seriously. Isolated events like this can be anything, though--and the zanier, the better--which is why they get any print at all.

So, you'd be okay if people laughed and made jokes about a man buchering a woman, as long as he did it in an original fashion? Is that what you are trying to say?

Tell me, how should a man kill or maim a woman that it would be okay to laugh about it? Perhaps skin her and do funny things with her skin? Like, a baloon animal perhaps? Then a bunch of middle aged men could sit around on television and make fart sounds to a hollering audience. Pfffffffrrfttffffff

 

[SepiaAndDust]

So, you'd be okay if people laughed and made jokes about a man buchering a woman, as long as he did it in an original fashion? Is that what you are trying to say?

Yup. But it's because I know what they're really doing--dealing with something that disturbs them. Those people's deepest thoughts aren't Wow, that's so cool! I wish I could do that to a woman, too!. No, their deepest thoughts are Oh... that's horrible!*

And who are you to tell someone else how to react when faced with something horrible?

Tell me, how should a man kill or maim a woman that it would be okay to laugh about it? Perhaps skin her and do funny things with her skin? Like, a baloon animal perhaps? Then a bunch of middle aged men could sit around on television and make fart sounds to a hollering audience. Pfffffffrrfttffffff

Now THAT'S comedy!



[size=-2]* Some will be kids on YouTube who haven't developed real empathy for others yet, and a vanishingly few will be true psychopaths, but I'm referring to run-of-the-mill adults.[/size]

 

[Nithavela]

I think I have the same right to tell them how they should react as you have the right to tell other people how they should react to this reaction. I doubt that people are deep inside thinking 'Oh that's horrible' when they shout 'that'll teach him!'.

Personally, I think you are deluding yourself when you think those are their motives.

 

[SepiaAndDust]

I think I have the same right to tell them how they should react as you have the right to tell other people how they should react to this reaction.

Yeah yeah yeah. That's like the old saw How dare you not tolerate my intolerance!

I doubt that people are deep inside thinking 'Oh that's horrible' when they shout 'that'll teach him!'.

Personally, I think you are deluding yourself when you think those are their motives.

You may think whatever you want to think.

What I think is that--until you realize that we humans are complex, layered, and filled with contradiction--you'll never understand people. You'll continue to speak of things like "motives" when dealing with off-the-cuff reactions, for instance.

 

[Hetta]

I don't believe that the women in the audience - or the panel - are actually potential psychopaths or potentially would do this, I just think there is a lot of ignorance, and that large groups of women - like large groups of men - can develop a pack instinct where they follow each other, and scream and holler at things they wouldn't otherwise. I remember, many years ago, that a friend invited me to a night out and I went unknowing that male strippers would be showing up. When these guys got up and started stripping I felt incredibly awkward. It's not that I hadn't seen a man's body before, but for reasons I can't explain, I don't like that whole situation. But I went along with it. I put on a big false smile and cheered and applauded and told my friends I'd had an amazing time, even though I hated every moment and felt incredibly uncomfortable. I know it's not the same scenario, but I did join the 'herd' so as to fit in. I think that many of those women may have been doing the same thing.

Is there really anyone posting on this thread who has never done anything like that? Maybe you're all just incredibly strong and principled. Of course now I'm an old lady with nothing to lose, I would stand up and walk out of the same situation, but as a much younger woman, I did not.

 

[Nithavela]

Every mob comitting the most horrible atrocities is made up of 95% decent people and 5% lunatics.

 

[Hetta]

OOOkay. I don't see audience participants whooping as 'horrible atrocities' but ... well, probably time for me to duck out of this thread. Seems like I said everything that was worth saying.

 

[Nithavela]

I was not talking about their reaction as a horrible attrocity, but about this phenomenon of mob mentality in general.

Most of the time, there are always at least a few who really feel the way the crowd/mob acts/reacts.

 

[RDKirk]

I think that, because it's a woman attacking a man (which isn't taken seriously as a possibility because of sexist notions in our culture), people don't treat it with due gravity.

I'm sure that there's a legitimate question about our society regarding why in this world we find it funny when a woman attacks and severely mutilates a man in a situation like this, though.

Point made.

 

[Hetta]

I was not talking about their reaction as a horrible attrocity, but about this phenomenon of mob mentality in general.

Most of the time, there are always at least a few who really feel the way the crowd/mob acts/reacts.

Okay. That makes sense.

 

[Habbit Animal]

Every mob comitting the most horrible atrocities is made up of 95% decent people and 5% lunatics.

You don't realize how convoluted that statement is do you?

 

[Skaloop]

You don't realize how convoluted that statement is do you?

How so? It seems pretty straight forward to me.

 

[Lollerskates]

How so? It seems pretty straight forward to me.

Convoluted? Maybe not. Blanket? Probably.

 

[Wolseley]

(And yet they think that people who own semiautomatic rifles are the ones who're insane. Right.)

 

[RDKirk]

Originally Posted by Nithavela

Every mob comitting the most horrible atrocities is made up of 95% decent people and 5% lunatics.
​

How so? It seems pretty straight forward to me.

I think he meant "ironic," or perhaps "oxymoronic."

If they were truly decent people, they would have stayed home.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Get used to it. Women want to be able to do these things, and back those who do it. Let a man do something like this to a woman, and watch the meda blast him as a monster. Women do it, and they laugh about it.

I'm a woman and thought this was horrible. Also I thought the woman that did this was horrible.

 

[Gadarene]

I honestly always assumed that it was a sarcastic label applied to misogynists who claim that feminism is a way of discriminating against them by allowing women to participate in education and work (rather than sleeping with them and raising their children). I've never heard it applied to masculism in the classical sense, where it's used to mean people who support gender equality and the abolition of patriarchy, but with a focus on the stereotyping and mistreatment of men as a result of the older system.

It's a lot more than just Vox Day.

Obviously I know that masculism is older than that. I'm referring exclusively to the misogynist and disgusting strand sometimes called virism that most "men's rights advocates" online hold to (I'm putting the term in quotation marks now, to be clear about who I'm referring to). Its modern incarnation is relatively new, even though the idea is a reactionary strand against feminism.

None of the MRAs I've encountered have used the term "virism", and it is only reactionary in that many of them do not think feminism is an adequate response to the problem of gender inequality.

 

[Gadarene]

I'm confused. Do you think that feminists have more hormones than women? Or you think that MRAs only say these things about feminists?

Ah, missed that bit - I must have been thinking of the hysteria part

Trust me, the websites I have seen are coded around how ridiculous women are, and how they were 'made' to be lower than man, and submit to his leadership because they're too empty headed/stupid/hysterical to operate on their own. I can't say more because my gorge begins to rise.

Did they actually claim to be MRAs? As I said, given how intent people, particularly feminists, are on misrepresenting them I am somewhat skeptical of whether they actually were or not.

Actually, in many cases, a woman is treated more severely because women aren't "supposed" to be violent.

I'm sure there are some exceptions to the sentencing gap, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.