Weep Over Jerusalem?

[guuila]

They agree...as all scripture does.

So why do you constantly pit the Bible against itself?

 

[guuila]

I saw the part he equated regeneration with faith and good works. Do you equate these also?

I already corrected your error in post 642. I guess you'd rather continue building your straw men.

 

[Arcoe]

No I don't. Regeneration causes good works. That does not mean regeneration equals good works. You might want to read more carefully.

You might want to write more carefully. You said -

'No good works = no saving faith = no regeneration'

This is the negative of 'good works = saving faith = regeneration'.

 

[Arcoe]

Uh huh. That means I believe grace is sufficient to bring about salvation from beginning to end, and that includes everything required therein like good works. What's the problem?

And all you do is sit back and do nothing while eating popcorn? Good works will never be a part of your life, unless you actually do them. It's nice to think you will do them or that you have what it takes to do them, but that won't get them done. You actually have to do it. This is called synergism, man cooperating with God.

Jesus called the servant who did nothing, wicked and lazy (Matt. 25:26).

 

[DArceri]

Also, did you know if you put one tiny bit of synergism into monergism, you are no longer a monergist?

Hey Arcoe, the thread is too long to catch up on all the points of view, but my question to you is where do you stand on justification vs sanctification? Do they have their own roles in the salvation process or do you not separate them? For if you collapse the two into one, then you will come way with a syneristic point of view. But if each has its own role, as the reformed believe it does, then we are saved by grace through faith, not of our own works so that no one may boast. This can only be monergistic. I guess some reformed could say that synergism comes into play during the sanctification process when we abide in God's love, then we act on that love ie, passive recipients in our justification, but made active in good works when God is sanctifying us. But the monergists could argue that the love that is spilling out is a fruit of the Spirit, it is not coming from us per say, but from God moving us to act.


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[Arcoe]

I don't think you understand what is meant by synergism and monergism. Your post only goes to give further confirmation.

Really? Do you work for the food which endures to eternal life (John 6:27)? Do you strive to enter the strait gate (Luke 13:24)? If you do, then that is synergism.

 

[Arcoe]

Hey Arcoe, the thread is too long to catch up on all the points of view, but my question to you is where do you stand on justification vs sanctification? Do they have their own roles in the salvation process or do you not separate them? For if you collapse the two into one, then you will come way with a syneristic point of view. But if each has its own role, as the reformed believe it does, then we are saved by grace through faith, not of our own works so that no one may boast. This can only be monergistic. I guess some reformed could say that synergism comes into play during the sanctification process when we abde in God's love, then we act on that love. But the monergists could argue that love that spills out is a fruit of the Spirit, it is not coming from us.

I ask you, is sanctification (purification, holiness) a part of the salvation process? Is sanctification essential to salvation? Or is it just an option for the believer? Does God allow a believer to neglect sanctification? Does Hebrews 12:14 not say, "Follow peace with all men, and holiness (sanctification), without which no man shall see the Lord:"?

Is a man not justified (free from guilt) after repenting for the remission (forgiveness or pardon) of sins?

 

[DArceri]

I ask you, is sanctification (purification, holiness) a part of the salvation process? Is sanctification essential to salvation? Or is it just an option for the believer? Does God allow a believer to neglect sanctification? Does Hebrews 12:14 not say, "Follow peace with all men, and holiness (sanctification), without which no man shall see the Lord:"?

Is a man not justified (free from guilt) after repenting for the remission (forgiveness or pardon) of sins?

I need to know where you stand on this issue before I can answer appropriately. So, can you answer the question please? BTW, If you can refrain from answering a question with a question, I think we can move along quicker. Also of note, I already gave you the reformed view of salvation. Did you not see it? Or do I have to repost it? I'll be happy to expand on the view once I know where you stand on justification vs sanctification. I believe the reformed view is that although they cannot be separated in regards to salvation as a whole, they are very dinstict in the roles they play.

 

[Hammster]

Really? Do you work for the food which endures to eternal life (John 6:27)? Do you strive to enter the strait gate (Luke 13:24)? If you do, then that is synergism.

I don't think you understand what is meant by synergism and monergism. Your post only goes to give even further confirmation.

 

[cygnusx1]

Your first question has to do with a Christian not casting away transgressions, abstaining from wickedness, and putting to death the old man. Yes, you may keep your sins to yourself, in your heart, but it will only result in evil works and not good.

Your second question is simple. No matter if you call yourself a Christian or not, if you have hate residing within you, you do not possess eternal life (as John states). Jesus said in Mark 7:
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness.

Jesus also said to cleanse first that which is within... (Matt 23:26).

Either you are going to cleanse your heart, cast away transgressions, lay aside the old man, or you will keep doing evil. It's very simple, but as it says in Hebrews 3 -

7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, in the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, and saw My works forty years."
10 Therefore I was angry with that generation, and said, ‘They always go astray in their heart, and they have not known My ways.’

My first question ?

Moses and David not saved. .?

 

[Jack Terrence]

He should blame himself for he is the guilty party. Not wanting to sin is great, but as long as you keep sin within your heart, you will be a prisoner to it. Paul says the one you choose to obey, you become its prisoner. If you keep sinning, you are not free from it.

The Christian does not keep sin in his heart. I do not. But it keeps dogging me every day.

How can you separate your members from yourself? What your members do comes from you. Your members will not do anything you do not choose to do from your heart.

You may direct your question to the apostle Paul if you should meet him and ask him about this statement,

"So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God. But with the flesh the law of sin."

Note that Paul said that with his mind he himself served the law of God only. But with the flesh he served the law of sin. He served sin but not from his true self. The true self of the Christian is NEVER involved.

Was Paul "keeping sin" in his heart. No! He saying, "I am a weak and wretched man! Therefore, your conclusion that we are "keeping sin" in our hearts is altogether fallacious.

All repentance is of the individual. Why do you assume I do not cry out to God and seek His help in repentance? Please do not assume, make light of, and carelessly make ridiculous statements about my personal beliefs and repentance. Thank you.

I made no statement. I asked you a question. I asked because it has been my experience that those who subscribe to your view of things tend to be judgmental of other Christians when they sin. But those who know themselves to be weak don't even go there.

The Christian does NOT sin willfully. He is a child of God. He sins from weakness.

 

[Arcoe]

My first question ?

Moses and David not saved. .?

Please elaborate; Moses and David were not mentioned in my post.

 

[Arcoe]

I don't think you understand what is meant by synergism and monergism. Your post only goes to give even further confirmation.

I don't think you want to answer, for it shows you are truly a synergist at heart, only saying you're a monergist with the lips.

So I will ask again, do YOU WORK for the food which endures to eternal life?

 

[Hammster]

I don't think you want to answer, for it shows you are truly a synergist at heart, only saying you're a monergist with the lips.

So I will ask again, do YOU WORK for the food which endures to eternal life?

You've yet to show that you understand what is meant by synergism and/or monergism. Until you show that you do, your comments remain full of nonsense.

 

[Arcoe]

I need to know where you stand on this issue before I can answer appropriately. So, can you answer the question please? BTW, If you can refrain from answering a question with a question, I think we can move along quicker. Also of note, I already gave you the reformed view of salvation. Did you not see it? Or do I have to repost it? I'll be happy to expand on the view once I know where you stand on justification vs sanctification. I believe the reformed view is that although they cannot be separated in regards to salvation as a whole, they are very dinstict in the roles they play.

Of course I believe in sanctification and justification. I just showed you both are needed for salvation. Without sanctification, no one will see God. Pretty clear, don't you think?

Paul says in Romans 12:1 to 'present your bodies a living sacrifice, HOLY, acceptable to God, WHICH IS YOUR REASONABLE SERVICE'. We see here, sanctification is the reasonable service of man himself. This is a service man performs.

Without justification, man is still in his sins. Repentance is the remedy for pardoning of sins, as I have shown. Again, pretty clear.

Jesus said those who do good will attain to the resurrection of life. Which category would you put 'doing good' in order to attain this resurrection?

 

[Arcoe]

You've yet to show that you understand what is meant by synergism and/or monergism. Until you show that you do, your comments remain full of nonsense.

If you do not undersand what I am saying, then please go play with your comic books, for you will get more from them. I've seen you play this game of yours long enough. Please do not respond if want to keep playing this game of yours.

 

[cygnusx1]

Please elaborate; Moses and David were not mentioned in my post.

What have I been talking about in 1 John

 

[Hammster]

If you do not undersand what I am saying, then please go play with your comic books, for you will get more from them. I've seen you play this game of yours long enough. Please do not respond if want to keep playing this game of yours.

You're the one who is muddling regeneration and justification with sanctification. It isn't me.

 

[Arcoe]

The Christian does not keep sin in his heart. I do not. But it keeps dogging me every day.

Jesus said sin proceeded from the heart. Do you keep sin in your back pocket?

You may direct your question to the apostle Paul if you should meet him and ask him about this statement,

"So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God. But with the flesh the law of sin."

No, I directed my question to you. Have you not crucified the flesh? That which is dead has no affect on the living. If you serve the law of sin, then I can safely assume you haven't crucified the flesh.

Galatians 5:24
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Romans 6 - 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

These passages from Galatians and Romans answer every question and objection you have concerning your sin, the flesh, and serving sin.

If the old man has been crucified with Christ, it has been destroyed, and from that period on, you should not serve sin. Is this so hard to understand? If you still serve and continue in sin, then you haven't been baptized into Jesus' death and been raised to walk in a new life. You are still living to the old life.

Note that Paul said that with his mind he himself served the law of God only. But with the flesh he served the law of sin. He served sin but not from his true self. The true self of the Christian is NEVER involved.

What is it about 'crucifying your flesh with its affections and lusts' do you not understand?

Was Paul "keeping sin" in his heart. No! He saying, "I am a weak and wretched man! Therefore, your conclusion that we are "keeping sin" in our hearts is altogether fallacious.

You need to read and understand ALL the word before making such a statement. Jesus said this in Matthew 15,
18 But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man.
19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders.
20 These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man.

I made no statement. I asked you a question. I asked because it has been my experience that those who subscribe to your view of things tend to be judgmental of other Christians when they sin. But those who know themselves to be weak don't even go there.

And of what sin have I judged you? Jesus said the Word will judge you, and I have given Jesus' own words about sin proceeding from the heart and defiling a man. Do you need more than Jesus' words to be convinced He told the truth?

The Christian does NOT sin willfully. He is a child of God. He sins from weakness.

Why are you weak? Does Christ not give you strength? Sounds much like an excuse to stay in sin. If man would only obey the word; cast away your transgressions and abstain from wickedness, and you will not obey sin and be its prisoner.

If you have been crucified with Christ, why are you continuing to sin? Paul asked if we should continue in sin, and absolutely said, GOD FORBID. It is the absolute will and decree of God to not continue in sin. How is it you are able go against God's own will and decree?

 

[Arcoe]

What have I been talking about in 1 John

I don't think Moses and David were mentioned in 1 John either. You keep ignoring the fact repentance is available to all you have godly sorrow. Genuine repentance is the remittance, therefore pardon of sin.