Weep Over Jerusalem?

[guuila]

Is this a personal belief, or can you provide passages from the Bible to support your answer?

It flows from my belief in an omniscient, immutable God.

I don't want any specific people, all I'm asking is if a person practices sin through lusts of the flesh, can we not know who they are by their actions?

1 John says those who practice sin are of the devil.

Yes wasn't an option. It was either the kingdom or hell.

You asked me if they go to heaven or hell. 'Yes' was a logically coherent answer. If that's not the answer you're looking for, you need to phrase the question more precisely.

How is a person in Christ if they live to the flesh? Romans 8:1 says,

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Paul says a person in Christ does NOT walk according to the flesh. How is it you say a person is in Christ if he walks according to the flesh? Again, is a regenerate person exempt from this?

You tell me. Paul addressed the Corinthians as babes in Christ. Christians. I'm not the one who has an issue with it so why is the burden on me to explain it?

I'm glad you agree with John. So I ask, how is a regenerate person of the Father if he lives in the lust of his flesh?

Romans 7 answers your question.

So you equate being carnal with living in the lust of the flesh. Were these Corinthian believers of the Father, or of the world, being carnal? Did these Corinthians believers inherit the kingdom being carnal?

They were carnal Christians.

But you just said the Corinthian believers, who must be regenerate, lived a lifestyle of carnality. Which is it? Were the Corinthian believers regenerated or not?

Actually Paul said it.

Thank you for an honest answer.

No problem. I try my best not to lie on christian forums.

 

[guuila]

I have no beef with this. But why did Paul not have the ability? And in what way is the Christian's will free if he does not have the ability? Hammster said that Christians have free will. But I believe that it is all of grace from start to finish. Free will played no part at salvation. Neither does it play a part in sanctification because there is no such thing as free will at all.


My chief point is that I ALWAYS want to do good. Again I have to remind some here that I am disputing Hammster's theory that Paul did what he "ultimately wanted." How anyone can say that the child of God, when he sins, is doing what he ultimately wants? He is a child of God!

"I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do NOT want, I agree with the law, that it is good." ESV

When the Christian sins he is doing the opposite of what he wants.


Not quite. I believe that the Elect are regenerated at conception in their mother's womb. I define regeneration simply as the implanting of the GERM of spiritual life into the soul. The Elect sin willfully up until the time they are converted. This is why I said, "If you are a regenerated AND a converted man you always want to do good.

"For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin."

Christians indeed sin but they CANNOT sin willfully. They sin in weakness. This is why Christ is our High Priest. He ever lives to plead our weakness before God.

15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

There's much to say, but I'm about to sign off for the weekend. The only thing I want to mention is this:

Not quite. I believe that the Elect are regenerated at conception in their mother's womb. I define regeneration simply as the implanting of the GERM of spiritual life into the soul. The Elect sin willfully up until the time they are converted. This is why I said, "If you are a regenerated AND a converted man you always want to do good.

Regenerated at conception? I don't think so. The instant we are regenerated we have faith and repentance, and are thus justified. If you're trying to tell me Christians (those who are regenerate) don't willfully sin, either you're wrong, or I'm not a Christian.

 

[guuila]

Thank you. Now do you have Biblical support for this, or is this a personal belief?

Show us where the Bible says God *didn't* originally create hell for man.

 

[Hammster]

Thank you. Now do you have Biblical support for this, or is this a personal belief?

I will assume that you believe that God is omniscient. If not, I'll have to take some time to explain, biblically, how God knows the beginning from the end. Hopefully you'll just concede that point.

 

[jdbear]

griff said,
Who created hell?

God did griff because He wanted to torture the vast majority....right?

 

[Hammster]

God did griff because He wanted to torture the vast majority....right?

I don't think griff wants to torture anyone. But I could be wrong.

 

[jdbear]

cygnusx1 said,
Could God save everybody if He wanted to ?

Not under the conditions He ordained.

"If we endure, we will also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us. If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself." 2 Tim.2:12-13

"I call heaven and earth to witness against you today that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live..." De.30:19

 

[jdbear]

Hammster said,
I don't think griff wants to torture anyone...

Maybe we can discuss it over coffee.

 

[Jack Terrence]

There's much to say, but I'm about to sign off for the weekend. The only thing I want to mention is this:



Regenerated at conception? I don't think so. The instant we are regenerated we have faith and repentance, and are thus justified. If you're trying to tell me Christians (those who are regenerate) don't willfully sin, either you're wrong, or I'm not a Christian.

See Isaac and Ishmael (Galatians 4:21-31). Isaac was born of the Spirit from Sarah's womb.

You do not willfullly sin. You just don't get it that you sin out of weakness. You have been deceived by sin into thinking that you willfully sin.

The day you come to realize that you sin from weakness, and not from some imagined autonomy, is the day you will never judge another Christian for sinning. It will be the day you will feel only compassion.

Since you think you willfully sin you don't need a high priest. You don't need God's help because it's all within your imagined, autonomous power to sin or to not sin.

Too many Calvinists become Arminians after salvation.

 

[crimsonleaf]

Griff answered; why don't you? He said God did originally create hell for man, but he won't find that in the Bible anywhere.

What do you say? Can you support his claim by providing passages from the Bible, or you just gonna sit there and wonder?

If God didn't create hell for man then are you saying he created it for someone else and thought it was a pretty handy thing to have so decided at a later point to put man in too?

Because, Arcoe, THAT'S open theism.

Don't thank me; it was a pleasure. I felt that if you couldn't work it out for yourself then a helping hand might be welcome.

 

[guuila]

I don't think griff wants to torture anyone. But I could be wrong.

Well, I do have bad days...

 

[guuila]

God did griff because He wanted to torture the vast majority....right?

That's what Scripture teaches.

"Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few." (Matthew 7:13-14 ESV)

 

[Hammster]

Well, I do have bad days...

There was that ketchup incident.

 

[guuila]

There was that ketchup incident.

Exactly... I wanted to torture an easter bunny when that happened.

 

[jdbear]

griff said,
That's what Scripture teaches.

How can anyone who knows Jesus believe such a thing?

"For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all." Ro.11:32

 

[Hammster]

How can anyone who knows Jesus believe such a thing?

"For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all." Ro.11:32

All people, or all groups of people? Context matters.

 

[Jack Terrence]

All people, or all groups of people? Context matters.

It's all groups of people. Jews and Gentiles, bond or free, rich or poor, male or female.

But not all individuals inclusively.

 

[guuila]

How can anyone who knows Jesus believe such a thing?

"For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all." Ro.11:32

So Rom. 11 trumps Matt. 7 huh?

 

[Arcoe]

If God didn't create hell for man then are you saying he created it for someone else and thought it was a pretty handy thing to have so decided at a later point to put man in too?

The Bible says who He created hell for. I am sorry you want to add to what is revealed. This is called pseudo theism, or man-made theism.

Because, Arcoe, THAT'S open theism.

You know they put tags on the toes of the dead also, don't you?

Don't thank me; it was a pleasure. I felt that if you couldn't work it out for yourself then a helping hand might be welcome.

Since you are making such a big deal of it, please show me in the Bible where God created hell for mankind. I have already asked other Calvinists, but they have failed to come up with anything. Maybe you can pull a rabbit out of the hat. And, I won't be holding my breath for you to answer.

 

[Arcoe]

All people, or all groups of people? Context matters.

Then you must say it is only groups of people in unbelief. Do you believe there are groups of people who are not in unbelief? Then how do you say it is only groups of people upon whom He has mercy? Context, I tell you, context.