Weep Over Jerusalem?

[BBAS 64]

For fun I'm going to agree with the commentaries and say all its inhabitants. Now, finally, school us on what the right answer is that Calvin, Matthew Henry, Barnes, etc... didn't know.

Not so fast there...

Jerusalem is??

I am not so sure I will school any body, but lets deal with the text

 

[gmm4j]

Very nice copy and paste...

Could you please telll me when you read the text who are the groups being addressed, just plain and simple.

Her Children are?
"She" Jerusalem is?

Let's be clear here he is gathering the children and not Jerusalem, some of the commenties you pasted seem to suggest other wise.

Why would he not gather Jerusalem, but only here children

Hey Bill,

He didn't gather either. He longed to gather them. He wept because they would not be gathered. They (whomever "they" is) were unwilling to let them be gathered.

 

[Moriah Ruth 777]

Wow, it amazes me that some of the responses to this post has nothing to do with the question as to why Jesus wept over Jerusalem. Also to use the statement, "That if Jesus was Calvinist". What kind of statement is that? Jesus was never Calivinist, nor is He of any denomination, nor will He ever be. By the way Calvin didn't exist at the time of Christ, he came after.

JackSparrow, what does freewill have to do with Jesus weeping over Jerusalem? And what does your verses that you provided have to do with the question?

Let's get back to the question and do some study before responding.

Moriah Ruth

 

[gmm4j]

Wow, it amazes me that some of the responses to this post has nothing to do with the question as to why Jesus wept over Jerusalem. Also to use the statement, "That if Jesus was Calvinist". What kind of statement is that? Jesus was never Calivinist, nor is He of any denomination, nor will He ever be. By the way Calvin didn't exist at the time of Christ, he came after.

JackSparrow, what does freewill have to do with Jesus weeping over Jerusalem? And what does your verses that you provided have to do with the question?

Let's get back to the question and do some study before responding.

Moriah Ruth

Hey Moriah Ruth! I was the one who used the phrase "if Jesus was a Calvinist". Of course I did not mean to infer that John Calvin lived before Christ, at least I don't think he did. Obviously, I was inferring that if "Jesus understood the plan of redemption as a Calvinism teaches it."

Blessings. And, I agree we need to try to deal with the OPs instead of going down so many rabbit trails.

 

[JackSparrow]

Wow, it amazes me that some of the responses to this post has nothing to do with the question as to why Jesus wept over Jerusalem. Also to use the statement, "That if Jesus was Calvinist". What kind of statement is that? Jesus was never Calivinist, nor is He of any denomination, nor will He ever be. By the way Calvin didn't exist at the time of Christ, he came after.

JackSparrow, what does freewill have to do with Jesus weeping over Jerusalem? And what does your verses that you provided have to do with the question?

Let's get back to the question and do some study before responding.

Moriah Ruth

Why was Jesus weeping over a people who had been predestined not to respond ? Has God forgot to inform Jesus ?

 

[BBAS 64]

Why was Jesus weeping over a people who had been predestined not to respond ? Hah God forgot to inform Jesus ?

You presume, that this has anything to do with Salvation....

 

[BBAS 64]

For fun I'm going to agree with the commentaries and say all its inhabitants. Now, finally, school us on what the right answer is that Calvin, Matthew Henry, Barnes, etc... didn't know.

Cool, but still need to have Jerusalem defined...

So suppose (for sake of agument) with out warrant that Gathered means salvation.

Then were not inhabitants of Jerusalem saved?


I believe Paul would be considered part of that group. As were others historically.

In Him,

Bill

 

[Moriah Ruth 777]

GMM4J,

Thank you for clarifying where you were with your statement referring to Jesus and John Calvin. However I'm not into Calvinism.

JackSparrow, you stated, "Why was Jesus weeping over a people who had been predestined not to respond ? Has God forgot to inform Jesus?"

This question in my thinking sounds like you believe that the Jews were and are not God's chosen people.

Moriah Ruth

 

[gmm4j]

Cool, but still need to have Jerusalem defined...
So suppose (for sake of agument) with out warrant that Gathered means salvation.
Then were not inhabitants of Jerusalem saved?
I believe Paul would be considered part of that group. As were others historically.

Matt 23:37-39
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

Jerusalem = the city, possibly the leaders, certainly the unwilling of the past
Your children = the inhabitants, possibly the present unwilling
Gather = save, make safe under His wings
You were not willing = the unwilling of the past and/or present

 

[cygnusx1]

Certainly not the children or babes , or even the humble , these were obstructed by Jewish leaders ! Christ weeps over the stiff necked obstacle laying Israel , their destruction is fixed .

 

[BBAS 64]

Matt 23:37-39
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

Jerusalem = the city, possibly the leaders, certainly the unwilling of the past
Your children = the inhabitants, possibly the present unwilling
Gather = save, make safe under His wings
You were not willing = the unwilling of the past and/or present

Good Day,

There is nothing in the text that says the Children were unwilling you have added that to the text the "you" here is a pronoun that refres to the main object of the text "Jerusalem" Pronouns "you" do not take on perfect tense like verbs (past and/or present).


What you are wihing the text would say it does not you are badly confusing the nature and dircet useage and forms of wriiten words, and in do so you have made this text a wax nose.

Historically her children were saved (salvation) the Gathered here has nothing to do with salvation.

In Him,

Bill

 

[gmm4j]

Good Day,

There is nothing in the text that says the Children were unwilling you have added that to the text the "you" here is a pronoun that refres to the main object of the text "Jerusalem" Pronouns "you" do not take on perfect tense like verbs (past and/or present).


What you are wihing the text would say it does not you are badly confusing the nature and dircet useage and forms of wriiten words, and in do so you have made this text a wax nose.

Historically her children were saved (salvation) the Gathered here has nothing to do with salvation.

In Him,

Bill

Hey Bill,

I didn't add that the children were unwilling to the text. Here is what I said:

Matt 23:37-39
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

Jerusalem = the city, possibly the leaders, certainly the unwilling of the past
Your children = the inhabitants, possibly the present unwilling
Gather = save, make safe under His wings
You were not willing = the unwilling of the past and/or present

NOTE that I said Your Children = the inhabitants, POSSIBLY the present unwilling.

Now beyond that, please, please share with us what the text means so that we can properly deal with it. I will be waiting with great anticipation for your response so I can know what to do with the wax nose.

Blessings!

 

[gmm4j]

Why would Jesus weep over Jerusalem?

Luke 19:41
As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it.

Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.

According to Calvinism’s view of election, the judgment of Jerusalem would have been the “good pleasure" of the Father (Ephesians 1:9-10). If that were so, why was it so disturbing to Jesus? Shouldn't Jesus have been pleased with the Father's will for Jerusalem?

Also, if Jesus was a Calvinist who knew the will of the Father and He really longed for them to be gathered unto Him, wouldn’t the Spirit simply have irresistibly drawn them?

 

[cygnusx1]

Why would Jesus weep over Jerusalem?

Luke 19:41
As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it.

Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.

According to Calvinism’s view of election, the judgment of Jerusalem would have been the “good pleasure" of the Father (Ephesians 1:9-10). If that were so, why was it so disturbing to Jesus? Shouldn't Jesus have been pleased with the Father's will for Jerusalem?

Also, if Jesus was a Calvinist who knew the will of the Father and He really longed for them to be gathered unto Him, wouldn’t the Spirit simply have irresistibly drawn them?

Too many assumptions !

Who said Gods will isn't complex ?

Who said God has no feelings or emotions ?

Who said if God doesn't irresistibly draw every person then He cannot draw any , or He cannot have feelings or He cannot be resisted ?

Who said if God chooses He cannot be grieved or rejected ?

 

[gmm4j]

I can gather them.
I long to gather them.
I don't gather them.
I weep that they are not gathered.

You are right, that is complex.

 

[cygnusx1]

I can gather them.
I long to gather them.
I don't gather them.
I weep that they are not gathered.

You are right, that is complex.

Sure is , to us !

But really , is it any more than the "problem of evil" ?

I don't think so.

 

[gmm4j]

Sure is , to us !

But really , is it any more than the "problem of evil" ?

I don't think so.

Gen 2:16-17
And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

Gen 3:11-12
Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?" 12 The man said, "The woman you put here with me — she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it."

 

[cygnusx1]

Gen 2:16-17
And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

Gen 3:11-12
Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?" 12 The man said, "The woman you put here with me — she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it."

You have heard of the "problem of evil" ? Quoting the above scripture does nothing to deal with the main question , if God is Omnipotent as well as Omniscient and can stop evil why didn't He ?

 

[JackSparrow]

You have heard of the "problem of evil" ? Quoting the above scripture does nothing to deal with the main question , if God is Omnipotent as well as Omniscient and can stop evil why didn't He ?

Moreover why did God let things happen - or predestine them if you prefer - that grieved him so much ?

Genesis 6 : And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

 

[cygnusx1]

Moreover why did God let things happen - or predestine them if you prefer - that grieved him so much ?

Genesis 6 : And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Precisely !

There seem to be only two answers :

1. God willingly permitted evil with much suffering to Himself in order to overthrow it .

2. God doesn't permit evil , it just happens ! He has no control or say over the future , such is Gods nature that He must take risks in order to be Love ....


I know which one is scriptural .