Weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties

[Bobber]

I have come to believe that it is endemic to the doctrine. It seems that everyone (a synecdoche, btw ) who subscribes to the W-F doctrine (or any variation thereof) feels it is perfectly justifiable to treat their perceived opponents with disrespect and sarcasm.

But then again some would suggest that many of you's show disrespect to God himself....might be just someones opinion though.

 

[JimB]

But then again some would suggest that many of you's show disrespect to God himself....might be just someones opinion though.

Opinion or not, that is a horrible judgment call on your part, Bobber, and, I will add, typical of your side of the issue. There is no need for statements like that. Everyone in this forum respects God and I would like to ask you to lay off the broadsides. Let’s talk issues, not cast aspersions on people’s motives, especially toward God.

 

[probinson]

Opinion or not, that is a horrible judgment call on your part, Bobber, and, I will add, typical of your side of the issue. There is no need for statements like that. Everyone in this forum respects God and I would like to ask you to lay off the broadsides. Let’s talk issues, not cast aspersions on people’s motives, especially toward God.

Beams and motes. Beams and motes.

(Someone should write a song)

As much as you'd like to portray yourself as Mr. Objective, anyone who's spent any time here can see you've done your fair share of baby-pinching. And then feign offense. Who? Me? What did I do?

This is typcical of your side of the issue. Feign offense. It'll sidetrack the thread and serve only to futher divide. But hey, it sure will help your side of the argument.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Beams and motes. Beams and motes.

(Someone should write a song)

As much as you'd like to portray yourself as Mr. Objective, anyone who's spent any time here can see you've done your fair share of baby-pinching. And then feign offense. Who? Me? What did I do?

This is typcical of your side of the issue. Feign offense. It'll sidetrack the thread and serve only to futher divide. But hey, it sure will help your side of the argument.

As many threads goes......Christians make major things out of minor things and minor things out of major things.

So what is the REAL issue?

Now that real issue is often lost in the debates as usual when doctrines drives people apart.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Sound doctrine does not go against the goodness and mercy of God, Jim....perhaps not all but many of your beliefs do....

Sound doctrine does not go against ALL Characters of God. The Bible teaches that God is love; some have interpreted this in such a way as virtually to deny that He is just, which the Bible also teaches. The biblical doctrine of God's goodness so far that it is made to contradict His holiness. The biblical doctrine of God's compassion cancel out His truth.

People will view God is ALL good, which is true but the definition of "good" in God's point of view is different than our human point of view. 1 Corinthians 9:8 Do I say this merely from a human point of view? 1 John 4:5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. Philippians 3:15 All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. If God is ALL good, then Solomon would not write the negative side of God in Ecclesiastes. From God's point of view. I arrived naked from the womb of my mother; I will leave in the same condition--with nothing. There's a right time and way for everything. He knows my current state and my tomorrows, if I have one. "This is the day the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it." (Psalm 118:24).

 

[JimfromOhio]

If I was a bet'in man I'd bet a shiny new dollar there is not a single WoF detractor here who actually knows what WoF teaches....
certainly none know it well enough to deem whether it is "warped" or not.

Don't be to sure about that bet.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Has anyone else noticed that the book of James is written with an eye on the law instead of on grace?

 

[lismore]

Has anyone else noticed that the book of James is written with an eye on the law instead of on grace?

Yes. It was written to legalistic Jews. Thats why!

 

[JimfromOhio]

Has anyone else noticed that the book of James is written with an eye on the law instead of on grace?

Yes.. because James reminded us that Grace alone saves us but works also are the fruits of salvation. Can't have grace alone without works. Works won't save you but Grace does. Works on the other hand, we serve God from our hearts by "Loving one another".

 

[Christina M]

Beams and motes. Beams and motes.

(Someone should write a song)

As much as you'd like to portray yourself as Mr. Objective, anyone who's spent any time here can see you've done your fair share of baby-pinching. And then feign offense. Who? Me? What did I do?

This is typcical of your side of the issue. Feign offense. It'll sidetrack the thread and serve only to futher divide. But hey, it sure will help your side of the argument.

Pete,

Why is it so hard for them to see this??? You have said it so well. Yet all they do is criticize us..... for our faith...and then feign offense when we have our say.

Then the whole group gets the "Now, now, children, play nicey-nice." from the mods, instead of the instigators being told to stop.

 

[Christina M]

Has anyone else noticed that the book of James is written with an eye on the law instead of on grace?

Yes, I have!

I think it is a beautiful book........ it shows that God does require from us.

Grace has been perverted in this modern-day church. It has become loosey-goosey.....greasy-grace. People take advantage of the Lord's free grace and rationalize themselves out of any obligation.

 

[Christina M]

Opinion or not, that is a horrible judgment call on your part, Bobber, and, I will add, typical of your side of the issue. There is no need for statements like that. Everyone in this forum respects God and I would like to ask you to lay off the broadsides. Let’s talk issues, not cast aspersions on people’s motives, especially toward God.

I don't think Bobber cast any "aspersions", Jim. He spoke truth/fact.

There are many people here in this forum who claim that God does things that are not good. THAT is casting aspersions!

Claiming that God puts viruses on people to bring them closer to Him...or to teach them a lesson....IS a perversion and it IS slighting God's reputation.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

God wouldn't harm people any more than you'd see Jesus casting illness on people. Like the blind guy wasn't blind from God but God's glory was seen through his afliction. Job was perfect according to human standards but God allowed harm to come to him and in doing so Job got a higher revelation of God. God is good and all he allows is for our good, too. The million dollar lessons are the ones we wouldn't pay two cents for. In fact I've got some on sale right now!!!

 

[Atlantians]

I think the Book of James is written with an eye on Faith, like the rest of God's word.
James is saying that people who truly trust and rely on God(have Faith in him) would joyfully do what He commands us to do.
That true trust and reliance on God(Christian Faith) will cause us to do good works.

We are saved unto good works.

 

[Atlantians]

Edit: Sorry for double post.

Claiming that God puts viruses on people to bring them closer to Him...or to teach them a lesson....IS a perversion and it IS slighting God's reputation.

No one is saying that God causes viral infections, or bacterial infections. Though he did many times in the Old Testament, or things just as distructive.
He struck Elisha's Diciple with lepresy.

What we are saying is that all sicknesses and diseases and all insults and weaknesses in our life are there because we live in a fallen world and God is not going to baby us for every minor or major thing.
God wants us to display our trust by being joyful in the midst of these surcumstances, going so far as thanking Him truthfully in all things and actually going so far as:
2 Corinthians 12-10That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

For Christ's sake, not ours.
And yes people will be healed, but even when we are not healed, we should, instead of praying for healing all the time, be on the streets and preaching the word, or if we are physically unable, praying and praising him, and reading the word day and night.

Certainly few of us do any of that while we are well. How less when we are sick?
Paul became stronger in the Faith by Christ when he was physically weak and sick.

I myself became stronger through Christ through a physiological disorder, and God has not healed me of it.
Instead He has led me through it and by His strength I overcame its limitating factors.

True Faith overcomes sicknesses for God's glory.
YEs you might be healed, but as demonstrated by Paul, and to a large degree by Job, that might not always be the case and the challenge is we must always stay trusting God and overcoming challenges and limitations in His name by His strength.

 

[probinson]

I sometimes wonder if everyone that's touting Job as their example ever actually read the book of Job in its entirety.

God healed Job. God gave Job twice what he'd had before. The whole Job ordeal likely only lasted for a few months, less than 1% of Job's natural life. There is no record of Job EVER getting sick again.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I sometimes wonder if everyone that's touting Job as their example ever actually read the book of Job in its entirety.

God healed Job. God gave Job twice what he'd had before. The whole Job ordeal likely only lasted for a few months, less than 1% of Job's natural life. There is no record of Job EVER getting sick again.

Do you think his new children ever replaced his other ones?

 

[probinson]

Do you think his new children ever replaced his other ones?

Of course not. The children that Satan stole were gone from this life forever. But God still blessed Job with more children.

The point is, if we're going to use Job as the basis for our theology, we should at least use the WHOLE story. I hear people say "God allowed this and God allowed that", but I've yet to hear one of those people state that GOD HEALED JOB!

 

[Christina M]

No one is saying that God causes viral infections, or bacterial infections. .

Please reread the posts. There are many here who have indeed said God causes viruses, illnesses, paralysis, etc. in order to bring people closer to Him, to teach people lessons, to chasrise people and to bring glory to Him.

Please really read them before you deny it.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Of course not. The children that Satan stole were gone from this life forever. But God still blessed Job with more children.

The point is, if we're going to use Job as the basis for our theology, we should at least use the WHOLE story. I hear people say "God allowed this and God allowed that", but I've yet to hear one of those people state that GOD HEALED JOB!

What I stated was that God blessed Job with His righteiousness because prior to that Job had an over abundance of his own righteuosness. Sure he went thru it only for a little while and God blessed him over and above what he had. But I think the lesson is that our righteousness doesn't cut it with God. And no matter what is gained in this world we're still dust. We have no say in how the world is run. And apparently from the example of Job it takes a huge jolt for us to see that, especially when we live in our own perfect world.
I think it changed his life forever no matter what length of time he went thru it. Probably a day didn't pass when he wasn't thinking on God.Can't minimise that.