We should seriously consider any possible to help with Third Temple.

kofh2u

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Cyrus IS here; the Elijah has long returned and paved the way; and the Temple will be according to Ezekiel; and Christ in the spirit of the Church body need only read Isaiah 60, 61, 62, 66,... Zechariah and Revelation:


Rev. 22:12 And, behold, I, (the Word of the scriptures), come quickly (for a congregation of two billion Christians awaits the Revelation); and my reward (of peace in the Holy Land) is with me, to give (love, charity, to neighbor and enemy alike) every man according as his work, (neighbor or Islamic enemy), shall be.
 
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Yahudim

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I have read the many opinions here and now offer this:

The Temple will be reconstructed by man. The stones, hardware, implements, garments etc., are already either being made OR are already made. I know this because of the information from the Temple Institute web site, the call of the sanhedrin to contribute to its construction and the current political climate. There is not a politician in Israel that would give away land unless there was a deal made for the building of the Temple. While the conservative religious minority in Israel comprises only 20% or so of the population, no government can remain in power long without their support. There HAS to be a deal made or it amounts to political suicide.

Then there is scripture...
Eze 43:1 Afterward he brought me to the gate, even the gate that looketh toward the east:
Eze 43:2 And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory.
This is a vision about the day of His coming. The great and terrible Day of the L-RD as represented in Joel. Zepheniah, Obediah etc., et. al.
Eze 43:3 And it was according to the appearance of the vision which I saw, even according to the vision that I saw when I came to destroy the city: and the visions were like the vision that I saw by the river Chebar; and I fell upon my face.
Eze 43:4 And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.
Eze 43:5 So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house.
He cannot enter the East Gate and then His house if it is not yet built.

The ONLY references that the proponents of a Divinely constructed Temple have shared come from the TRADITIONS AND COMMENTARIES OF MEN and not SCRIPTURE.

Concerning whether we should help in the construction, "I will bless those that bless you..."
 
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Yahudim

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kofh2u said:
Rev. 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

Rev. 21:22 And I SAW NO TEMPLE therein: for the (theistic, transcendent), Lord God Almighty, (Shin), and (the Immanent God within us), the Lamb (within the mind of men) are the temple of it.

Rev. 21:23 And the "city," had no need of the (astrological) sun (signs), neither (the influence) of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God, (the Urim and Thummim of the pattern of His Temple) did lighten it, and the Lamb, (the chief cornerstone of the geometry) is the light thereof.

Rev. 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

Rev. 21:25 And the gates of it, (the software-like schemata) shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there, (inside the Collective Mind of men).

Rev. 21:26 And they, (all mankind), shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
Soooooooo................ this is an earthly Temple? :scratch:
 
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Yahudim

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visionary said:
The mind of men is the temple of God.... YES.....
The temple of Jerusalem is for the anti-christ to use to fulfill prophecy.
Hey vis, :wave:
... and for the returning KING to enter, also to fulfill prophecy. The point I was making was about building the physical Temple on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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visionary said:
The mind of men is the temple of God.... YES.....
The temple of Jerusalem is for the anti-christ to use to fulfill prophecy.
Wasn't that prophecy made while the first temple still stood? If we know the circumstances from that destruction, perhaps we will better understand it for a future event. Another words, looking at revelation as both this event here and the future event on Judea/Jerusalem.

Matt 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat....... 38 "See! Your house is left to you a Wilderness;
 
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visionary

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:wave:
talmidim said:
Hey vis, :wave:
... and for the returning KING to enter, also to fulfill prophecy. The point I was making was about building the physical Temple on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.
Hi Talmidim..... maybe we should put together a step by step process.. showing the importance of the man made temple just before His return in prophecy. There seems to be some confusion between the temple that Yeshua builds and the temple that man builds.

Clarification - the temple described in Revelation is the one that Yeshua builds. It will come down with the city of God.

Jeremiah 31:38 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the city shall be built to the LORD from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.
31:39
And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.
31:40
And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.

This city in on earth...
Psalm 46:4 There is a river whose streams make glad the city of God, the holy place where the Most High dwells.
This city has the river running doen the middle of it

Isaiah 26:1 In that day this song will be sung in the land of Judah: We have a strong city; God makes salvation its walls and ramparts.
It is in the land of Judah. Remember the city of God does come down from heaven.

Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
The day will come when all that man makes is gone and God's city will come down for us to dwell in.
Revelation 21:2
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
IN the midst of the city is the Temple that God has built.
Revelation 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hai
l But the temple that man makes is prophecied.
Zechariah 6:14 And the crowns shall be to Helem, and to Tobijah, and to Jedaiah, and to Hen the son of Zephaniah, for a memorial in the temple of the LORD. 15 And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the LORD, and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God.
Now you come to the verse that shows the abomination that will happen in this man made temple...
2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
How else can it be... The Lord comes
after2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
should He also not come to the Temple that man made to face the one who exalted himself above all and claim He is God.
Eze 43:2 And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory.
:clap:
Ezekiel 43:4
And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.
 
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tate4242

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visionary said:
:wave: Hi Talmidim..... maybe we should put together a step by step process.. showing the importance of the man made temple just before His return in prophecy. There seems to be some confusion between the temple that Yeshua builds and the temple that man builds.

Clarification - the temple described in Revelation is the one that Yeshua builds. It will come down with the city of God.



This city in on earth...
This city has the river running doen the middle of it

It is in the land of Judah. Remember the city of God does come down from heaven.

The day will come when all that man makes is gone and God's city will come down for us to dwell in. IN the midst of the city is the Temple that God has built.l But the temple that man makes is prophecied. Now you come to the verse that shows the abomination that will happen in this man made temple...How else can it be... The Lord comes
should He also not come to the Temple that man made to face the one who exalted himself above all and claim He is God. :clap:

"should He also not come to the Temple that man made to face the one who exalted himself above all and claim He is God."

Hi Visionary...This certainly makes sense to me...

Your comment certainly seems to be the most logical understanding of Isaiah 66:5,6.....
 
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visionary

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tate4242 said:
"should He also not come to the Temple that man made to face the one who exalted himself above all and claim He is God."

Hi Visionary...This certainly makes sense to me...

Your comment certainly seems to be the most logical understanding of Isaiah 66:5,6.....
Thank you
 
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4942970.stm

Last Updated: Tuesday, 25 April 2006, 17:08 GMT 18:08 UK


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Jerusalem's volatile archaeology
By Malcolm Billings
Presenter, Trench Warfare: The Politics of Archaeology


One of the most visited archaeological sites in Jerusalem is also charged with emotion that has erupted in riot and bloodshed.


The Temple Mount, or Haram al-Sharif, is Holy to Muslims and Jews
Known as the Western Wall Tunnel it runs under the old walled city and along the length of the western wall of what was once the Temple of Jerusalem.

Built by Herod the Great in 20 BC, the Temple itself was destroyed by the Romans in the year 70.

All that survived was the rock platform - the Temple Mount - on which the Temple was built and the massive retaining wall that supported the foundations of the building.

The Temple Mount, or the Haram al-Sharif as it is called by Muslims, meaning noble sanctuary, is holy to both Jews and Muslims.

For most of the time since the 7th Century it has been in the possession of Muslims, who believe it marks the point where the Prophet Muhammad ascended into heaven.

Archaeological embargo

Jews believe it is the site of the original Temple of Solomon, and where - in the story of Genesis - God tested Abraham's faith by ordering him to sacrifice his son Isaac, before telling him to stay his hand.

Today, a beautiful Muslim shrine built in the 7th Century, the Dome of the Rock, covers the outcrop of stone where these events are supposed to have taken place.

TRENCH WARFARE
Trench Warfare: The Politics of Archaeology
Tuesdays, 1100BST, Radio 4
19 April: Identity and Belonging
26 April: The Stones Cry Out
3 May: Who Owns the Bones?
Hear the latest episode at:
">Radio 4's Listen again page

To add to this eventful history, the building was turned into a church during the time of the Crusaders in the 11th and 12th Centuries.

The crescent on the top of the dome was replaced with a cross, and when the city was reconquered by Saladin in 1187, the first thing he did was to send people on to the roof to remove the offending symbol of the vanquished Christian kings of Jerusalem.

Despite the outcome of the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, in which Israeli occupied the West Bank and East Jerusalem, including the Old City and the Temple Mount, the enclosure and the Dome of the Rock, the Al-Aqsa Mosque and a superb range of Muslim Medieval buildings, remain under the jurisdiction of the Muslim religious authorities who control its day-to-day activities.

Both sides observe an embargo on archaeological work on the site.

Riot

But archaeological work in the Old City and around the Temple Mount is another matter.

Large areas of the city have been explored by Israeli archaeologists since 1967, including some tunnels dug in the 19th century by British archaeologists.




Guide: Jerusalem's holy sites

These tunnels were opened up again when Israelis took control of Jerusalem. In 1996, the digging provoked a riot in which 80 Palestinians and 14 Israeli soldiers were killed.

When digging began again, Israeli archaeologists traced the lower courses of the masonry of the wall along its full length of several hundred metres.

Deep underground they excavated beneath the massive foundation of medieval buildings and along the wall where they found ancient water cisterns, a Roman road and much of the detail of the construction of the 2,000-year-old Temple wall.

Unique find

In one part of the tunnel system, they uncovered a three-storey house built in the Crusader period - a unique find for the history of the city of Jerusalem.

Large numbers queue up to walk through this tunnel and at points along the way shrines have been set up for religious Jews to pray for the day that the Temple is rebuilt.

Evangelical Christians also look forward to the rebuilding of the Temple believing, that the Second Coming of the Messiah will not take place until the Temple is up and running again.

The Muslims are intensely aware of these aspirations and are suspicious about any archaeological work beneath the Old City.

Cracks have appeared in medieval building giving rise to Muslim concerns that the Israelis have explored under the Temple Mount.

Not so insist the archaeologists. They maintain that they have only explored along the edge of the wall in an attempt to understand more about the missing Temple.

But rumours persist, however unlikely.

Fear and rumour

Many Muslims believe that extreme religious Jews are passionate enough about reclaiming the Temple to believe that they are tunnelling underneath the Haram to undermine the foundations of the ancient Muslim buildings on the site.

Indeed, there is a Jewish religious group which has prepared plans and building materials in readiness for the day they believe will come when God gives the go-ahead for the rebuilding of the Temple.

The Temple Mount is a crucible for fear, rumour and religious prejudice.

It is therefore not surprising to hear archaeologists describe it as the most politically volatile archaeological site in the Middle East.
 
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ORI

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If I may the answer is simple and yet so very complex are you Jew or Gentile?
Please read the facts- My question to the Rabbi;
Help me understand something; the Third Temple will be built after the arrival of King Moshiach,yes?


Yes. The Rambam (Maimonides) cites this as Torah Law
in his Mishneh Torah, Laws of Kings, Chapter 11.

Do the scriptures support this view?
When and by whom the Third Temple will be built is not
stated anywhere explicitly in the Written Torah. It
is known from the Oral Torah. The Rambam's sources for
the principle he states are Jerusalem Talmud, Tractate
Megillah 1:11, and Midrash Bamidbar Rabbah 13:2

These sources say that Moshiach will build the 3rd
Temple.

The alternative possibility is that after Moshiach
comes, he will not build it himself personally, but
G-d will send it down ready-built from Heaven. But if
that happens, Moshiach will affix the main doors of
the Temple, so it will be counted to him as if he
constructed it, since he will finish the job (based on
Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Bava Batra 53b). The
sources for that possibility are

Rashi's and Tosafot's explanation of the Babylonian
Talmud, Tractate Sukkah 41a, and Midrash Tanchuma
on Pekudei.
 
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HaNotsri

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The Torah relates two commandments, one is v'asu li, Miq'dash; v'shachan'ti, b'tochem (Exodus 25:8): And they shall make Me a sanctuary and I will dwell in their midst AND the other ki im-el-hamaqom asher-yiv'char HaShem Keloheichem mi-kol shiv'teichem, lasum et-Sh'mo--l'shich'nu tid'r'shu, uvaata shamah (Deuteronomy 12:5): But only to the place which the Lord your God shall choose from all your tribes, to set His Name there; you shall inquire after His dwelling and come there.

It is an eternal commandment for the Jewish people to build a Miq'dash for God in the place of His choosing (that being Har haBayit or the Temple Mount). In no other place can the Temple be built.

It's not a matter of whether or not the Moslems allow Israel to rebuild the Holy Temple. It is up to God! The Temple that will be build will be done so to the specifications of the second Temple (according to the Temple Institute). It would be impossible for the Temple of Ezekiel's vision to be erected as the very topography of Jerusalem and indeed, the entire Land of Israel would need to change. That Temple will not be erected until the restored second Temple has been defiled and Jesus makes His triumphant return. Then He will rebuild the tabernacle of David and the Temple of Ezekiel's vision will be established (sacrifices and all) during Jesus' earthly reign.

Jesus relates in the gospel of Luke: "When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. Then those in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those inside the city must leave it, and those out in the country must not enter it; for these are days of vengeance, as a fulfillment of all that is written. Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing infants in those days! For there will be great distress on the earth and wrath against this people; they will fall by the edge of the sword and be taken away as captives among all nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."

Israel may have reunited the city of Jerusalem in the 1967 and captured the Temple Mount, but that did not end the "times of the Gentiles." Jerusalem is still "trampled on by the Gentiles," as the most holy spot in the city (the Temple Mount) was given back over to the Moslem Waqf right after its capture. Jerusalem is still being trampled and worship to alien gods is still practiced in the place of the Temple. Not until full control is asserted over that spot, will the Temple begin to be rebuilt. Unfortunately, that is not going to happen without bloody war it seems.


The Temple that will be rebuilt by the Jewish people is merely an extension of the second Temple, while the Temple of Ezekiel's vision is the third Temple and in Christian circles is often called the "Millenial Temple."

Despite the fact that the Jewish people seek to reestablish a Temple that will ultimately be defiled, it is a House of God nonetheless as 2 Thessalonians 2:3-5 relates: Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come unless the rebellion comes first and the lawless one is revealed, the one destined for destruction. He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, declaring himself to be God.

I feel it would be worthy for us to pray and assist (financially or otherwise) in the building of the Temple

Michael
 
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Bethshaya

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beej7 said:
Yeshua will come at the appointed time. We can't do anything to make the birth of a baby come sooner than it is going to come. Labor starts at some unknown appointed time. Labor will last as long as it is going to--nothing will make it shorter. I'm not sure that helping with the Temple will be a decision for us to make, or that we will even be around to be a part of.

Helping and praying for Israel is something we have been instructed to do, and we can do that now.

I wholeheartidly agree.

"Hastening the coming" somehow implies that man has some sort of control over the preset plan and will of God. He will come when He has planned to come, despite any activity man creates to make it come quicker. There is a reason why groups such as the Temple Mount Faithful have failed up until now to start the rebuilding. They have all of the items ready, but have yet to start contruction. Why? Because it isn't time yet.

It seems so bold and boastful, in the face of God to think that man can puff himself up so much as to think that he influences He who is, was and is to come.
 
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tate4242

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I wholeheartidly agree.

"Hastening the coming" somehow implies that man has some sort of control over the preset plan and will of God. He will come when He has planned to come, despite any activity man creates to make it come quicker. There is a reason why groups such as the Temple Mount Faithful have failed up until now to start the rebuilding. They have all of the items ready, but have yet to start contruction. Why? Because it isn't time yet.

It seems so bold and boastful, in the face of God to think that man can puff himself up so much as to think that he influences He who is, was and is to come.

I don't blame you one bit for thinking this way
about this subject. A great case can be made
for the idea that YHWH has planned everything
out to the minute detail and timing....but then
again a good argument can be made that
YHWH has given a certain amount of power to
humans to affect events by their repentance...
lack of repentance....magnitude of our repentance...
zeal and wisdom with which we work toward the
finishing of our part in preaching the gospel to
all the world.....

A few moments ago I read part of this writing...
this visionary dream of a meeting with Yahushua/Jesus
and the Father supports the idea that our actions
do affect how quickly Mashiach will come to this earth:

http://www.christianword.org/revival/hordes.html


He then pointed His sword toward my heart, then my mouth, then my hands. When He did this fire came from His sword and burned me with a great pain. "This too is grace," He said. "You are but one of
many who have been prepared for this hour. Preach and write about all that you have seen here. What I have said to you say to My brethren. Go and call My captains to the last battle. Go and defend the poor and the oppressed, the widows and the
orphans. This is the commission of My captains, and it is where you will find them. My children are worth more to Me than the
stars in the heavens. Feed My lambs. Watch over My little ones. Give the word of God to them that they may live. Go to the
battle. Go and do not retreat. Go quickly for I will come quickly. Obey Me and hasten the day of My coming."
 
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tate4242

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"It seems so bold and boastful, in the face of God to think that man can puff himself up so much as to think that he influences He who is, was and is to come."

Personally, I believe that this account of the Patriarch Judah defending Benjamin with tremendous courage,chutzpah and power....changed the course of history and finalized the plan that King David and the Messiah would be descendants of Judah....If Judah had not risen to the occasion and defended the little brother of Joseph with such zeal....I suspectthat matters could have been much different....I personally believe that our actions do profoundly affect the specifics on how YHWH works out His plan....The blessings to Abraham were made unconditional afterAbraham showed his willingness to sacrifice Isaac...

http://www.ccel.org/a/anonymous/jasher/54.htm

"And Judah answered Joseph, saying, Surely thou must know that I was security for the lad to his father, saying, If I brought him not unto him I should bear his blame forever.Therefore have I approached thee from amongst all my brethren, for I saw that thou wast unwilling to suffer him to go from thee; now therefore may I find grace in thy sight that thou shalt send him to go with us, and behold I will remain as a substitute for him, to serve thee in whatever thou desirest, for wheresoever thou shalt send me I will go to serve thee with great energy."

On the other hand when the prophet Elijah ran away
from the armies of Jezebel it seems that the Eternal
was disappointed and had planned to do a great
deliverance through the actions of Elijah...if he had
decided to face Queen Jezebel rather than to run to Mt. Horeb:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Ki/1Ki019.html#9

1Ki 19:9¶And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of the LORD [came] to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?
 
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visionary

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God has more than one plan depending on how we respond. It really depends on how each of us respond. Plan A is one thing, plan B on the what if's. The end result will be the same, just the people who took up the positions can change.

Judas did not have to take up the position he chose. If he was a little more on the spiritual insight, he would have repented of having any thoughts in the direction that he did. This is the reason why studying the scripture is so important. Our choices not only affect the course of our personal history but can also effect the whole world if we have been placed in key positions.

We will only find out when the record books of heaven are opened for us to read, whether or not Moses was God's first choice. Afterall, if the little children did not cry out "hossannah" as Yeshua went by on the colt then the rocks would have.
 
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