We need more moderate politicians

[BrownCoat]

"I, AB, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

The House of Representatives. Now I just wish that they meant it.

 

[ScottishJohn]

Can't be true... ScottishJohn can't think of ANYONE further right then the US...

According to the list Ireland, Finland, Belgium Austria, Denmark, Sweden and Japan have far right parties which are further to the right than the US far right parties. However as we have already said, far right parties are isolated and tend to be the domain of nut jobs. It is the right wing parties which actually stand a chance of election which are interesting. As for right wing countries, Finland Belgium Austria Denmark Sweden Norway (which ranks equal with the US) are obviously more left wing than the US in terms of their government and infrastructure and this is a reflection of the electorate. The US consistently elects more right wing politicians.

The list is remarkably similar for the far left, and proves very little.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/lif_pol_ori_far_lef

What counts is who is elected.

Apparently you can't think of any country further right than the US!!

 

[BrownCoat]

We need more politicians out of jobs!!!!

 

[arnegrim]

What counts is who is elected.

Well... not intentionally I'm sure, but you have supported my OP.

Apparently you can't think of any country further right than the US!!

Start in the ME...

 

[MaryS]

Start in the ME...

Indeed! "if there were ever a place in the world where we need democracy, it's in the Middle East." ~ Senate Democrat Leader Harry Reid.

Seems strange, too, that many liberals are joining the paleocons in their opposition to trying to establish some semblance of democracy in that region.

The only countries that didn't get a negative grade for "democratic institutions" in that region were Israel (got 10 out of 10) and Iran (got 3). Saudi Arabia got a -10 and Iraq got a -9.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/dem_dem_ins_rat&int=-1

 

[ScottishJohn]

Well... not intentionally I'm sure, but you have supported my OP.

Oh no I agree wholeheartedly, I think we all need to step away from our extremes. Totally behind you on the 'we need more moderates' thing, although I have a tendency to agree with whoever posted 'if we were more moderate we would get more moderate politicians'

Start in the ME...

I've already said that I can't think of any, you persist in saying there are, yet refuse to name any. So what do we conclude from that?

 

[arnegrim]

Oh no I agree wholeheartedly, I think we all need to step away from our extremes. Totally behind you on the 'we need more moderates' thing, although I have a tendency to agree with whoever posted 'if we were more moderate we would get more moderate politicians'

So in your view... does the US have any 'left-wing' political parties?

I've already said that I can't think of any, you persist in saying there are, yet refuse to name any. So what do we conclude from that?

How about Bahrain.

 

[MaryS]

So in your view... does the US have any 'left-wing' political parties?



How about Bahrain.

Pretty far to the right and behind the times, but not as far to the right as some others in that region.
Bahrain is an island nation in the Gulf close to Saudi Arabia. They actually have made some progress because they allowed women to vote in the 2002 elections.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahrain

 

[The Seeker]

*sticks oar in*

Since when was "moderation" a value in and of itself?

 

[CCGirl]

The far-right political orientation of those in Canada was at "13" compared to the far-right in the United States at "18". There were also 7 countries, though, that were listed as having far-right politcal scores higher than the United States. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T..._far_rig&int=-1

If you follow the link, there's also a drop-down in the upper-right where you can select the "far-left" and compare nations too. Some of the same nations that had people further on the right also had people further on the left.

It seems that the nationmaster survey is a "Lifestyle survey", totally irrelevant. A more relevant statistic would be to use that site, Countries by Government and Political Parties. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/gov_pol_par_and_lea&int=-1

 

[Aimee30]

This is also a call to all those in California to support the redistricting proposition put forward by Ah-nold. The current legislature has an approval rating under 30%... and has for a while... but the current districts guarantee reelection for nearly everyone.

The political system is punishing moderates and creating an artificial support for the more radicals of both parties. In fact, this is probably the biggest reason a third party does not have much influence. Rules need to be changed, districts need to be redrawn, and people need to feel confident in voting for more moderate politicians.

Yes, we do need more moderate politicians. But I believe that not all liberals are extreme, and actually do understand similar things as some of the moderates, it's just that it's kind of hard to do anything about anything especially with a limit of 4-8 years in office. Sure, you should be able to accomplish some things, but most likely a person in charge will not get around to getting everything they propose to do and some things are just not deemed important to do or it is impossible for within the current system of government to say yes or no without inciting some sort of response from some people and most likely creating chaos. And if one believes church is seperate from state--which it should be, because church should be very different than the government and much more caring--then the government has to be for all its people and not just a certain group who think certain things to be wrong or right. I suppose it is up to God whether we are wrong or right and punishment might follow, but still, I believe the goverment is not the oe in control of personal beliefs and it is really up to us to make sure our rights to worship as we choose are protected.
Sorry about the rambling, but yes, extremists on both ends are bad for government and yes we need someone who would understand there is more to life than pushing a certain belief down another's throat. A moderate or a person who is more toward the moderate way of thinking would most likely fit this view.

 

[ScottishJohn]

So in your view... does the US have any 'left-wing' political parties?

Well there is the Communist Party!

How about Bahrain.

They don't really have elections, or rather they do but they don't really count for anything, the Prime Minister and his cabinet are appointed by the Monarch. Also political parties are against the law, (although political societies are not?!) So whatever form their government takes is not representative of the country.

 

[variant]

*sticks oar in*

Since when was "moderation" a value in and of itself?

In a representative democracy I think it is valuable for elected officials to represent a broader swath of the people that went into electing them rather than trying to push the country down specific ideological paths.



THIS is what we are lacking (representation rather than power politics and ideology).

 

[BrownCoat]

*sticks oar in*

Since when was "moderation" a value in and of itself?

/me bites the oar off and eats it.

I don't think it is. I'm not really moderate though in terms of politics, so I wouldn't actually know.

 

[arnegrim]

Well there is the Communist Party!

So... you view the Republican Party as the opposite of the Communist Party?!?

They don't really have elections, or rather they do but they don't really count for anything, the Prime Minister and his cabinet are appointed by the Monarch. Also political parties are against the law, (although political societies are not?!) So whatever form their government takes is not representative of the country.

It doesn't matter... either they are more 'right-wing' then the US or not. There is no 'Well... if you ignore this... and that... then...'

Again. On a global scale... the US is moderate.

And again. It really doesn't matter what happens on a global scale. The US needs more moderate politicians... moderate to US politics, not global politics.

 

[ScottishJohn]

So... you view the Republican Party as the opposite of the Communist Party?!?

Did I say that? You asked if I thought there were any left wing parties in the US - there are - one of which is the communist party.

It doesn't matter... either they are more 'right-wing' then the US or not. There is no 'Well... if you ignore this... and that... then...'

Again. On a global scale... the US is moderate.

You need to do a fair comparisson. Comparing Bahrain with the US shows that the monarch of Bahrain (ie one person) is more right wing than the US. If you look at democratically elected parties (which then represent a sizeable portion of the country) then Bahrain is irrelevant as it has neither political parties nor any meaningful elections. The US is more right wing - the fact that after several pages the only country you can come up with is not actually relevant shows that you are having difficulty finding a country (ie a whole country and not just one person within it) that is more right wing than the US. Then I seem to remember having a similar conversation with you about charitable giving, and you rejected per capita as a fair comparisson, so perhaps we just have totally different ideas as to what constitutes a fair comparrison.

And again. It really doesn't matter what happens on a global scale. The US needs more moderate politicians... moderate to US politics, not global politics.

Make up your mind, either the US is moderate or it needs more moderates? I think it needs more moderates because it is not moderate.

 

[arnegrim]

Did I say that? You asked if I thought there were any left wing parties in the US - there are - one of which is the communist party.

Ok... then what would be a good example for a party opposite of the Republican party?

You need to do a fair comparisson. Comparing Bahrain with the US shows that the monarch of Bahrain (ie one person) is more right wing than the US. If you look at democratically elected parties (which then represent a sizeable portion of the country) then Bahrain is irrelevant as it has neither political parties nor any meaningful elections. The US is more right wing - the fact that after several pages the only country you can come up with is not actually relevant shows that you are having difficulty finding a country (ie a whole country and not just one person within it) that is more right wing than the US. Then I seem to remember having a similar conversation with you about charitable giving, and you rejected per capita as a fair comparisson, so perhaps we just have totally different ideas as to what constitutes a fair comparrison.

What? I think comparing it on a global scale is ignorant...

As for my suggestion of countries... I am, in fact, trying to see if you are open to honest discussion by getting a perspective of what you view as 'right-wing'. The fact that you see no country in the world as being more 'right-wing' then the US says a lot.

Make up your mind, either the US is moderate or it needs more moderates? I think it needs more moderates because it is not moderate.

Then stop trying to compare it to a global spectrum.

Nationally... I think that overall, the Presidency is more towards the moderate spectrum... the Senate on the other hand... which is what I am calling to have changed... runs more to the extreme. And this is because the politicians are able to manipulate and draw up their own districts... which should be against the law.

 

[ScottishJohn]

Ok... then what would be a good example for a party opposite of the Republican party?

I have no idea! I don't really follow the minority parties in the US - what do you think is the opposite of the Republican party? Is there an opposite?

What? I think comparing it on a global scale is ignorant...

I made a statement: 'Unless he is making the point that on a world scale both the Republicans and the Democrats are right of centre - in which case he is making a good point.' To which you responded: 'Not really... we live in the USA... not a global scale. On a global scale Republicans are very liberal.' (emph mine)

Since then we have been trying to substantiate both points of view. This leads me to a question If you don't like looking at things on a global scale, if you think it is 'ignorant'?! why are you discussing it? Why do you consider it ignorant? I find it interesting that the US so obviously prefers its politics further to the right than the majority of the rest of the world.

As for my suggestion of countries... I am, in fact, trying to see if you are open to honest discussion by getting a perspective of what you view as 'right-wing'. The fact that you see no country in the world as being more 'right-wing' then the US says a lot.

Yeah says a lot about the US!

Nationally... I think that overall, the Presidency is more towards the moderate spectrum...

????
The US is the only place Bush could ever get elected! Bush is one phenomenon the rest of the world will never understand.

 

[arnegrim]

I have no idea! I don't really follow the minority parties in the US - what do you think is the opposite of the Republican party? Is there an opposite?

I think the Democratic Party is a very good 'counterpoint' to the Republican.

I made a statement: 'Unless he is making the point that on a world scale both the Republicans and the Democrats are right of centre - in which case he is making a good point.' To which you responded: 'Not really... we live in the USA... not a global scale. On a global scale Republicans are very liberal.' (emph mine)

Since then we have been trying to substantiate both points of view. This leads me to a question If you don't like looking at things on a global scale, if you think it is 'ignorant'?! why are you discussing it? Why do you consider it ignorant? I find it interesting that the US so obviously prefers its politics further to the right than the majority of the rest of the world.

Well... IIRC, someone posted a link that showed the US was, overall, more conservative globaly... but nowhere near being 'right-wing'.

I was discussing it because it sounded like you wanted to discuss it.

I consider it ignorant because this entire thread was based on a national view of US politics. We are not a country that caters it politics and politicians around other countries... nor should we be.

Yeah says a lot about the US!

You are attributing your personal opinion to the US?

????
The US is the only place Bush could ever get elected! Bush is one phenomenon the rest of the world will never understand.

And? That can be said about a number of world leaders...

and again... I was speaking mainly about the need for our Senate to be more moderate.

 

[ScottishJohn]

I think the Democratic Party is a very good 'counterpoint' to the Republican.

Be that as it may, I don't think anyone could call it an opposite, and it is certainly in my opinion not left wing on a global scale, although it may stand for the left in the US.

Well... IIRC, someone posted a link that showed the US was, overall, more conservative globaly... but nowhere near being 'right-wing'.

I said right of centre, which is the same thing as being more conservative globally, so does that mean we agree?

I was discussing it because it sounded like you wanted to discuss it.

How very obliging of you!

I consider it ignorant because this entire thread was based on a national view of US politics. We are not a country that caters it politics and politicians around other countries... nor should we be.

Which is perhaps why the US ends up in so many pointless fights...

You are attributing your personal opinion to the US?

I cannot think of a democraticly elected government which sits further to the right than the Republican government in the US. You cannot provide such a country either so far. So yes, that does say a lot about the US.

And? That can be said about a number of world leaders...

Yes and for many different reasons. The reason in this case being the peculiarities of US politics that we have been discussing - the tendency to the right. Bush is not a moderate.

and again... I was speaking mainly about the need for our Senate to be more moderate.

I already said I agree with you on that one.