We Live In An Electrical Simulation

[Larniavc]

That's the Bible being in error?

pi ~ 3

This is the kind of thing that comprises error?

Or a flood that was visible out to the horizon in all directions and covered the local modest hills that Noah would know locally? (heh heh....I don't need the text to be even literal, but it's fun) (ok, I don't want to troll people -- the boat would drift, in 150 days, a long ways, if you've ever been on a boat drifting in the wind, you will know it can move several miles per hour. It could drift very far in 150 days, to an actual mountain, etc. I don't take this event to be world wide -- just wider than Noah's familiar area he knew, his entire world under all the heavens around him, etc.....-- I myself don't think of it as needing to be literal, but it's fun to scenario it; it's quite easy to get a rarely large flood that could flood a vast region far past the line of sight; of course with a comet impact in ocean you could get vastly more than just this)

Let's have some discussions on more meaningful things in the next few months, ok.

If it is not literal then it is an inaccurate claim that the Bible makes. Which is my point.

 

[sjastro]

A further note to Missler’s video is to differentiate the baloney from the straight out lying.
An example of the straight out lying occurs around round the 3’50’ mark where Missler boldly declares mathematicians and Stephen Hawking do not understand entropy given entropy is equivalent to randomness.

As a mathematician, yes we mathematicians do understand entropy very well to the point to declare entropy implies randomness but randomness does not imply entropy, hence entropy and randomness are not equivalent.
An explanation of entropy via an example and some maths was given in this post.
Using the example, the entropy is simply the number of microstates which are possible orientations or degrees of freedom a thermodynamic state can have which changes when heat is added to or subtracted from the system.
The larger the number of microstates greater the entropy.
Purely random events such as tossing a heads or tails is not affected by temperature change.

With regards to Stephen Hawking not understanding entropy, Hawking was able to combine thermodynamics with quantum field theory using curved space-time to produce a precursor to a unified field theory which explains why black holes have entropy and has led to other ideas such as the holographic principle and insights into a quantum gravity theory.
For Missler to claim Hawking didn’t understand entropy makes the transition from baloney to straight out lying.

 

[Astrid]

5 to 1 you didn't even watch the video where he explains it!

Make it 100 to 1, that no sensible person watches
woo- woo vids. Not about the latest sighting of
Noah's ark or bigfoot, proof of astrology, alien
Pyramid builders, or proof that ToE is a lie.

 

[Astrid]

If it is not literal then it is an inaccurate claim that the Bible makes. Which is my point.

Next: how much inaccuracy is ok?
50% correct? 1%?

99% inaccurate is still true?

 

[Halbhh]

If it is not literal then it is an inaccurate claim that the Bible makes. Which is my point.

Rather, individuals can make inaccurate claims about whether a passage is trivially literally, often missing the real point, which is parable. For example, the Flood story is meant to teach us about the Human Condition, and help us understand then events like the Rwandan genocide, or Nazi Germany, etc. -- the Flood story parable begins in Genesis 6:5 and there you find the primary key lesson of the parable like story, in verses 5 through 11, which are about how human culture can at times spiral downwards into intense evil (such as happened in Germany in the 1930s-1945 for example). viz: Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 6:5-11 - New International Version

 

[Divide]

I gave you an out by telling you that DM/DE can't possibly do the things your god is claimed to have done (creates the Universe, or planets, or life, or determines morality, etc.) and therefore there is no conflict, but you double down and then go further by claiming (in a different post) that credibility on scientific issues is in anyway tied to someones religion. Please do better.

I would've answered you. But, you know, trolls.

I sure know how to tee off the Atheists real fast now, don;t I? Lol.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I would've answered you. But, you know, trolls.

You would know...

I sure know how to tee off the Atheists real fast now, don;t I? Lol.

Spew nonsense about science in the science board? Oh wait, that's how you annoy scientists. ("Atheism" is got nothing to do with this.)

 

[ViaCrucis]

Knock on the table in front of you. Sound solid? Feel solid? Prolly even looks solid.

Now think about in science class and looking at a illustration of an atom. It has a nucleus and an electron orbits around it, remember? We used to think that it was the smallest particle but more modern science tells us different. The atoms are microscopic, and the ratio of size relative to each other (electron and nuleus) is a great distance. If you made an enlarged atom to scale the size would make the distances even more absurd. There is more empty space in an atom than there is matter.

So the able you just knocked on has more empty space in it than it does matter. It's more not solid than it is solid. Yet we perceive it as solid. This points direvtly toward digital imaging. We live in the Matrix.

So not only pseudoscience, but also heresy? Bold choice.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

That's a good one. But it also ponts to the possibility that we are there in a simulation that seems real to us and we think we are here.. It would be rnough if God was wanting to give us an exercise in free will.

You don't have to believe it, that's up to you. But the truth is stranger than fiction so I'm not ruling anything out. If you think scripture is wrong, then surely you have an alternate explanation of what that verse means, we are seated in Heavenly places...??

We probably signed up for this class or at least agreed to it because that's how the Lord is. He doesn't force anything on anyone.

Maybe it's not called the Matrix in heaven? Maybe it's called, the womb?

Well, scripture says He knew us before we were in the omb.

No, but seriously, this is Gnosticism. What you're saying is literally the kind of things early heretics said.

How are things this bad in Christianity today?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Divide]

You would know...


Spew nonsense about science in the science board? Oh wait, that's how you annoy scientists. ("Atheism" is got nothing to do with this.)

Ok, scientists too. But there's only one here. Too much noise with mere mathmeticians lol.

So as a scientist you sound definitely retired by the tone of your post. Am I right?
So am I to think that you do not believe in the existance of anything paranormal? Without substance? You can't see it, taste it, feel it smell it or hear it, so it doesn't exist, right?

 

[sjastro]

Ok, scientists too. But there's only one here. Too much noise with mere mathmeticians lol.

So as a scientist you sound definitely retired by the tone of your post. Am I right?
So am I to think that you do not believe in the existance of anything paranormal? Without substance? You can't see it, taste it, feel it smell it or hear it, so it doesn't exist, right?

You really can't help yourself with the snide ignorant comments.
In countries such as Australia subjects that are considered physics such as quantum mechanics and general relativity are taught in applied mathematics and it is not uncommon for individuals who have majored in applied mathematics to do their PhDs in fields such as astronomy and certain fields of astrophysics such as cosmology.
I was employed as a scientist in private industry despite being as you put it a being mere mathematician.

Mathematicians occasionally have to put the various fields of science in their place.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Ok, scientists too. But there's only one here. Too much noise with mere mathmeticians lol.

So as a scientist you sound definitely retired by the tone of your post. Am I right?

hardly.

So am I to think that you do not believe in the existance of anything paranormal?

Correct.

Without substance? You can't see it, taste it, feel it smell it or hear it, so it doesn't exist, right?

That is not the definition of paranormal.

 

[Divide]

That is not the definition of paranormal.

I know. That was actually a few questions. I extended the question to include other things also. Wouldn't a scientist pick up on that? Doh! lol.

 

[Divide]

You really can't help yourself with the snide ignorant comments.
In countries such as Australia subjects that are considered physics such as quantum mechanics and general relativity are taught in applied mathematics and it is not uncommon for individuals who have majored in applied mathematics to do their PhDs in fields such as astronomy and certain fields of astrophysics such as cosmology.
I was employed as a scientist in private industry despite being as you put it a being mere mathematician.

Mathematicians occasionally have to put the various fields of science in their place.

Well that's how you talk. So what. SO I responded in kind. Ok so now it's two ways, Lol!

Big deal. Can't take a ribbing? Lol. I'm a retired Plumber. Go ahead and make some plumber jokes, I don't care. I wont play the Victim card. You aint the first mathmetician I've ever made fun of. Grow a pair man.

 

[Divide]

So not only pseudoscience, but also heresy? Bold choice.

-CryptoLutheran

You a scientist too? Lol!! What's your qualifications?

 

[Divide]

Get real everything posted in this thread is just scientific speculation. The scientist who think they are somebody special or that they have a monopoly on fact:

Romans 1:22
Professing to be wise, they became fools,

Even a real scientist calls it psudo science, lol. It's just not the science that he was taught during school. But there's other scientists with differing research from his that have results and been published, and they are scientists and where I got this from.

So all that has been established is that there are differing levels of expertise and opinons even among all the scientiists. I never really heard scientist types being obnoxious until I met them here, lol. That is just arrogance to me. Too bad they're so narrow minded.

 

[Divide]

You would know...


Spew nonsense about science in the science board? Oh wait, that's how you annoy scientists. ("Atheism" is got nothing to do with this.)

Rocket surgeon? Is that new or did I miss that before?

If you're a PHD in Physics then surely you heard of Bruce Lipton? WHat do you think of him?

 

[ViaCrucis]

You a scientist too? Lol!! What's your qualifications?

Nope. I would consider myself mildly scientific literate though. And thus I'm confident that the scientific consensus across disciplinary fields is, at present, our best set of models and theories.

Though something I do have is a couple decades of study on theology and Church history. Which is how I know calling the universe "the Matrix" is, at least if one cares about things like good Christian theology, explicitly heretical.

While the term "Gnostic" is something of an umbrella term, as there wasn't any singular religious system ever called "Gnosticism"; there are common themes among various religious groups that are grouped together as "Gnostic". One of those themes is that the material universe is a fundamentally false reality. In a number of Gnostic cosmologies dualism is a major idea; the dualism between spirit and matter for example. Thus various Gnostic movements maintained that there is an invisible "fullness" of spiritual reality in which the "true god" dwells, with a succession of emanations of spirits ("aeons") with some closer and some further away from their source. Where the material universe fits into this is that it is a perversion, a distortion, a cosmic failure attributed to the lowest of these cosmic emanations attributed to a demiurge (a term borrowed from Platonism, wherein the demiurge was the maker of the lowly material realm an imitation of the higher world of forms within Platonic philosophy). This demiurge, in various Gnostic systems, could either be simply ignorant and foolish, being so far removed from the pleroma ("fullness") of light where the divine monad (the "true god") dwelt that it could not perceive anything greater than it and thus concluded it must be the only god--and thus created the material universe which results in the imprisonment of divine sparks/souls into prisons of flesh (this is where, in these systems, the book of Genesis begins). Though, in other systems, this demurge might be viewed as malicious and evil, essentially a devil or devil analogue.

This becomes the important context of how various Gnostic teachers and groups understood terms like "salvation", and consequently how they interpreted Jesus as "the Savior". Essentially salvation meant the attainment of true knowledge (Greek gnosis, hence the term "Gnostic") through which one becomes aware of their true self beyond and behind the false veil of matter; as a spark of divine light which is to be liberated from the ignorance of matter and restored to the pleroma of light.

The science fiction movie "The Matrix" actually presents a pretty good analogy for Gnostic theology and cosmology. Most people are stuck in the Matrix, oblivious of the truth behind the world. The character of Neo as someone who is able to transcend beyond the Matrix and see it for what it really is can also be viewed as a kind of Gnostic Christ figure, as he works against the programs who keep people imprisoned in the Matrix--similar to how in many Gnostic beliefs there are ruling archons who serve the ignorant demiurge and act to keep people enslaved and imprisoned. Neo thus becomes the savior by taking on the ruling powers of the Matrix and liberating people from the ignorance of the Matrix; in a similar way this is how many Gnostics understood the idea of "the Savior". Though there were different interpretations of Jesus among Gnostics, some viewed Jesus as a pure spirit who has entered into the material world only seeming to be material (Docetism), others that this spiritual entity inhabited a human body/person (e.g. Cerinthianism), others that Jesus was a man who became fully enlightened of the reality of the world. And still other variations. But, in general, Jesus is a man, a spirit, a divine figure, or some combination of these, that comes to liberate the few who are capable of receiving such knowledge (while most will remain imprisoned within their ignorance).

I have, in the past, made the argument that the anti-science milieau that has slowly been infecting some parts of modern Christianity has been teetering toward a kind of Gnostic sentiment: The rejection of observable reality as inherently real and reliable is to present the material universe as inherently unreal and/or unreliable. If the phenomenal world of matter which we inhabit is, in some sense, inherently unreal or if we cannot know anything about it in any real sense, then that is a very Gnostic view of the world; and it is a view of the world that is directly at odds with--is antithetical to--the historic, orthodox, and biblical view of the world and the world's place in relation to both God and to us.

What is surprising to me is to see this go even further, not just from being implication but now explicitly being taught.

When I used the word "heresy" I wasn't being hyperbolic or sensationalistic. I meant it in the most technical and straightforward way I could: This idea is, from the position of historic, mainstream Christianity, explicitly heretical.

This is just another symptom of a deeply sick Church. The hijacking of Christianity by right-wing ideologues, anti-scientism, heresy, moralism, these are really just symptoms of a significant and deep wrong within the spiritual health of contemporary Christianity. It didn't happen over night, this has been a trend that stretches back decades, if not well over a century. My Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox brethren would say this is the inevitable outcome of the Protestant Reformation, though I would disagree. I would agree that the emerging Protestant impulse of DIY religion, which I think is actually explicitly contrary to the heart of the Reformation, is certainly a major factor. Though, I'd also note that, at least in some parts of the world, this is hardly a Protestant-only problem.

At any rate, that's why I made my "heresy" comment.

The pseudoscience of it is certainly problematic, though I'm not sure it carries with it the same level of danger.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Divide]

Nope. I would consider myself mildly scientific literate though. And thus I'm confident that the scientific consensus across disciplinary fields is, at present, our best set of models and theories.

Though something I do have is a couple decades of study on theology and Church history. Which is how I know calling the universe "the Matrix" is, at least if one cares about things like good Christian theology, explicitly heretical.

While the term "Gnostic" is something of an umbrella term, as there wasn't any singular religious system ever called "Gnosticism"; there are common themes among various religious groups that are grouped together as "Gnostic". One of those themes is that the material universe is a fundamentally false reality. In a number of Gnostic cosmologies dualism is a major idea; the dualism between spirit and matter for example. Thus various Gnostic movements maintained that there is an invisible "fullness" of spiritual reality in which the "true god" dwells, with a succession of emanations of spirits ("aeons") with some closer and some further away from their source. Where the material universe fits into this is that it is a perversion, a distortion, a cosmic failure attributed to the lowest of these cosmic emanations attributed to a demiurge (a term borrowed from Platonism, wherein the demiurge was the maker of the lowly material realm an imitation of the higher world of forms within Platonic philosophy). This demiurge, in various Gnostic systems, could either be simply ignorant and foolish, being so far removed from the pleroma ("fullness") of light where the divine monad (the "true god") dwelt that it could not perceive anything greater than it and thus concluded it must be the only god--and thus created the material universe which results in the imprisonment of divine sparks/souls into prisons of flesh (this is where, in these systems, the book of Genesis begins). Though, in other systems, this demurge might be viewed as malicious and evil, essentially a devil or devil analogue.

This becomes the important context of how various Gnostic teachers and groups understood terms like "salvation", and consequently how they interpreted Jesus as "the Savior". Essentially salvation meant the attainment of true knowledge (Greek gnosis, hence the term "Gnostic") through which one becomes aware of their true self beyond and behind the false veil of matter; as a spark of divine light which is to be liberated from the ignorance of matter and restored to the pleroma of light.

The science fiction movie "The Matrix" actually presents a pretty good analogy for Gnostic theology and cosmology. Most people are stuck in the Matrix, oblivious of the truth behind the world. The character of Neo as someone who is able to transcend beyond the Matrix and see it for what it really is can also be viewed as a kind of Gnostic Christ figure, as he works against the programs who keep people imprisoned in the Matrix--similar to how in many Gnostic beliefs there are ruling archons who serve the ignorant demiurge and act to keep people enslaved and imprisoned. Neo thus becomes the savior by taking on the ruling powers of the Matrix and liberating people from the ignorance of the Matrix; in a similar way this is how many Gnostics understood the idea of "the Savior". Though there were different interpretations of Jesus among Gnostics, some viewed Jesus as a pure spirit who has entered into the material world only seeming to be material (Docetism), others that this spiritual entity inhabited a human body/person (e.g. Cerinthianism), others that Jesus was a man who became fully enlightened of the reality of the world. And still other variations. But, in general, Jesus is a man, a spirit, a divine figure, or some combination of these, that comes to liberate the few who are capable of receiving such knowledge (while most will remain imprisoned within their ignorance).

I have, in the past, made the argument that the anti-science milieau that has slowly been infecting some parts of modern Christianity has been teetering toward a kind of Gnostic sentiment: The rejection of observable reality as inherently real and reliable is to present the material universe as inherently unreal and/or unreliable. If the phenomenal world of matter which we inhabit is, in some sense, inherently unreal or if we cannot know anything about it in any real sense, then that is a very Gnostic view of the world; and it is a view of the world that is directly at odds with--is antithetical to--the historic, orthodox, and biblical view of the world and the world's place in relation to both God and to us.

What is surprising to me is to see this go even further, not just from being implication but now explicitly being taught.

When I used the word "heresy" I wasn't being hyperbolic or sensationalistic. I meant it in the most technical and straightforward way I could: This idea is, from the position of historic, mainstream Christianity, explicitly heretical.

This is just another symptom of a deeply sick Church. The hijacking of Christianity by right-wing ideologues, anti-scientism, heresy, moralism, these are really just symptoms of a significant and deep wrong within the spiritual health of contemporary Christianity. It didn't happen over night, this has been a trend that stretches back decades, if not well over a century. My Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox brethren would say this is the inevitable outcome of the Protestant Reformation, though I would disagree. I would agree that the emerging Protestant impulse of DIY religion, which I think is actually explicitly contrary to the heart of the Reformation, is certainly a major factor. Though, I'd also note that, at least in some parts of the world, this is hardly a Protestant-only problem.

At any rate, that's why I made my "heresy" comment.

The pseudoscience of it is certainly problematic, though I'm not sure it carries with it the same level of danger.

-CryptoLutheran

It comes with the literal interpretation of scripture. Most people wont even read it for themselves but they will hear someone preach it in the way they want to hear it, and latch on. Personally, I believe that God say what He means and means what He says.

I don't think that the Matrix is true. But in someaspects of the movie seem like they are sort of types and shadows of some truths. No, I don't think there are wharehouses with tanks of fluid and people in them. God don't have that in Heaven either. The simiolarities are striking but it's a loose association.

 

[ViaCrucis]

It comes with the literal interpretation of scripture. Most people wont even read it for themselves but they will hear someone preach it in the way they want to hear it, and latch on. Personally, I believe that God say what He means and means what He says.

I don't think that the Matrix is true. But in someaspects of the movie seem like they are sort of types and shadows of some truths. No, I don't think there are wharehouses with tanks of fluid and people in them. God don't have that in Heaven either. The simiolarities are striking but it's a loose association.

A literal interpretation doesn't get us to the Matrix (or Matrix analogue). So that's really neither here nor there. Though I also don't believe that most "biblical literalists" are being honest with themselves or the Bible when they say they take it literally. I think they are fooling themselves. But that's a very different conversation.

In Genesis 1, when God looks at everything He made, what does He say? "It is exceedingly good". "Good" here, in Hebrew, meaning excellent, pleasing, bountiful. It was exceedingly, profoundly, immensely, mightily, abundantly valuable and wonderful and good.

That intrinsic goodness of the material world didn't cease at the Fall.

The Christian understanding of the Bible is this: The Bible is the story of God's covenant faithfulness to the world realized in the Person of Jesus Christ.

A view other than that is not a Christian one.

-CryptoLutheran