We have a right to rights we don't have, right?

[A2SG]

LOL!!!!! How many plastic surgeons wouldn't provide whatever service a patient desires when they know they'll be paid.

If we make elective procedures billable separate from the single payer plan, they'd be more inclined to bill the patient instead, that way they can charge whatever the market would bear.

Or we could just use our noodles and figure out that if you jump off a skyscraper, you go splat when you hit the ground. I'll pass on the "give it a try" thing, thanks.

See, we haven't tried single payer here, so we don't know how it would work. Unlike jumping off skyscrapers, where people have tried it, and we know how it turns out.

Keep in mind, no one tried a representative democracy like the US has before 1776 either, so trying something new isn't always a bad idea.

Thanks for repeating that mindlessly inane talking point. My day just wouldn't be complete without it.

It's not a talking point, its a fact.

-- A2SG, also note the objection the GOP raised to Obama reducing the size of government...

 

[A2SG]

I see. What were our idiot founding fathers thinking by calling them "inalienable," since after all they can indeed be taken away, simply by changing the law.

Stig, if you'd read their words, you'd know they said that "certain" rights were inalienable, they never said all rights were.

I gave two examples, property rights and parental rights, both of which can be transferred, given away or taken away.

Yep, the very antithesis of inalienable. Maybe Jefferson, Madison, Franklin and Hamilton were smoking hemp when they made that ridiculous assertion.

If you somehow think they said ALL rights were inalienable, then maybe you were.

Sorry, such tautological statements don't help here. I guess you forgot the original post in this thread. In fact, let's go back to it and reflect on your tautological comment:

(1). You tell us that a right is a right because it's in the lawbooks.

Here's what I did say: "Rights come to be in a variety of ways. Depends on the right, really."

(2). There is currently no law in the statutes enumerating "free birth control" as a right.

Not exactly as you state it, no. However, most states do require that contraceptives be included in a health care insurance plan.

(3). So why do people today keep parroting that " people have a RIGHT to free birth control?"

Who's parroting that? I'll agree that, in most states, birth control as part of health insurance coverage is a right, but I don't recall anyone ever saying it had to be free. Personally, I have no problem with a co-pay, same as I have to pay for my prescriptions.

That was my original question, and no one seems to want to tackle it. Take a shot, Artie.

Why? I don't tackle your strawmen, Stig. You want to discuss the issue, we'll keep to the facts, and leave fantasy out of it.

The people who say we have a right to free birth control. Sorry, awfully presumptuous of me to assume you read my post. Were you unaware that that is the position being taken by those in favor of Obama's latest health care edict?

Care to document that? Who said birth control had to be free? Cite your source, and then we can talk.

No, which is precisely my point. There is also no law saying we are entitled to free heath insurance.

I've never heard anyone saying there was.

Yet people are not claiming rights to free beanie caps, as they are free health care.

Who? Names, Stig!

Yep.

I assume just the opposite, so looks like your mystery is cleared up.

Hey, you said it, not me: "Hmmm...., so since the liability insurance I have for my business requires that I have fire extinguishers in my office, THEREFORE everyone has a right to free fire extinguishers."

Again, you're really missing it here. Let me simplify it for you:

BEFORE Obama's edict about the insurance companies, people were saying free birth control is a basic right.

I don't recall anyone saying that. Care to cite your sources, Stig?

But according to you, rights are not rights until they are codified.

Uh, I said that's one way rights come to us. I never said it was the only way.

So it looks like we both agree that all these lefties who claimed a right to birth control BEFORE the law even states it, are all wet.

Nope, since most states require by law that insurance carries cover contraceptives. That means every woman in each of those states who has health insurance has a right to have contraceptives covered.

No one said they had to be free. That seems to be your misunderstanding.

Well, you're a grown man and you seem to be struggling mightily here.

Nope. My understanding of civics is quite good. Yours, however, seems shaky.

-- A2SG, then again, the same has often been said of your concept of reality in general, so.....

 

[A2SG]

so your against this health care bil that prohibits the FREE exercise thereof.

It doesn't do any such thing. If you, in your free exercise of religion, object to birth control, no one will force you to take it. You don't have the right to object to someone else's decision to use it.

Of course the line is fuzzy becasue its not in there.

Sorry, but there are literally tons of legal precedent upholding the concept of a separation of church and state.

Tons of precedents are unconstitutional.

Not really, no. Once a law or ruling has been determined to be unconstitutional, it's no longer used as a precedent.

Yes the first amendment is. but thats not what you said. you said seperation of church and state.

Which comes from the first amendment.

-- A2SG, and if you're unclear on whether or not the first amendment was intended to form that separation, check out Jefferson's reply to the Danbury Baptists, where he clearly states the intent behind the wording of the amendment....

 

[Archaeopteryx]

That was your argument...

That was your misunderstanding or caricature of what I said.

 

[stiggywiggy]

Originally Posted by stiggywiggy

I see. What were our idiot founding fathers thinking by calling them "inalienable," since after all they can indeed be taken away, simply by changing the law.
​

Stig, if you'd read their words, you'd know they said that "certain" rights were inalienable, they never said all rights were.

Yeah, I know. That's a given in my post, because the founding fathers never having enumerated which rights were unalienable, I was pondering why people are now claiming that the right to free birth control is somehow unalienable. Nobody so far can tell me.



A2SG earlier:
I gave two examples, property rights and parental rights, both of which can be transferred, given away or taken away.

stiggy: Yep, the very antithesis of inalienable. Maybe Jefferson, Madison, Franklin and Hamilton were smoking hemp when they made that ridiculous assertion.
​

If you somehow think they said ALL rights were inalienable, then maybe you were.

OK. So here's what we now have:

(1). Unalienable rights include stuff like life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

(2). We cannot know for sure whether the founding fathers considered free birth control a right, since we know from the words "among these," that it is not an exhaustive list.

(3). SO WHY DO PEOPLE CLAIM FREE BIRTH CONTROL AS A RIGHT?

That was my question, if you recall.


stiggy earlier:

(2). There is currently no law in the statutes enumerating "free birth control" as a right.
​

Not exactly as you state it, no. However, most states do require that contraceptives be included in a health care insurance plan.

That doesn't help at all. Since there is currently no law in the books requiring people be given free health care, this question remains:

SO WHY DO PEOPLE CLAIM FREE BIRTH CONTROL AS A RIGHT?

stiggy earlier: (3). So why do people today keep parroting that " people have a RIGHT to free birth control?"
​

Who's parroting that?

So many pundits from both the left and the right, that I've lost count.



stiggy earlier:

That was my original question, and no one seems to want to tackle it. Take a shot, Artie.
​

Why? I don't tackle your strawmen, Stig.

Then don't even try. Instead of tackling non-existent strawmen, try answering this:

SO WHY DO PEOPLE CLAIM FREE BIRTH CONTROL AS A RIGHT?

Now if your only answer is that you are unaware that people are doing that, never mind. We just travel in different circles.

You want to discuss the issue, we'll keep to the facts, and leave fantasy out of it.

Fantasy? If you think it's fantasy that politicians, pundits and political analysts of all persuasions are NOT claiming free birth control as a right, you're the guy in never-never land.

stiggy earlier: The people who say we have a right to free birth control. Sorry, awfully presumptuous of me to assume you read my post. Were you unaware that that is the position being taken by those in favor of Obama's latest health care edict?
​

Care to document that?

Nah. I KNOW what I've heard scores and scores of people say, and I do not carry a tape recorder with me. Nor do I DVR every TV political analyst.

Who said birth control had to be free?

The people who are saying that it's a right. Are you sure you read the original post in this thread?

Cite your source, and then we can talk.

You gotta be kidding. Maybe I'll do that in a separate reply. But I'm afraid I won't know when to stop. Sources abound. No, I've got a better idea. Ask me again. Ask me like you really don't believe I can give you sources. It will make it that much more pleasurable for me when I bombard you with them. I'll have more time tomorrow.

stiggy earlier: No, which is precisely my point. There is also no law saying we are entitled to free heath insurance.
​

I've never heard anyone saying there was.

???? I never heard anyone saying that anyone was saying there was. You seem real confused.

stiggy earlier: Yet people are not claiming rights to free beanie caps, as they are free health care.][/quote]

Who? Names, Stig!

How many you want? Please make it a finite number.

​

Hey,

Kinda late for a greeting, isn't it? But hey to you too.

you said it, not me: "Hmmm...., so since the liability insurance I have for my business requires that I have fire extinguishers in my office, THEREFORE everyone has a right to free fire extinguishers."

Yeah, that was definitely me. What's up? Did someone claim it was you that typed that? I must have missed that.


stiggy earlier: Again, you're really missing it here. Let me simplify it for you:

BEFORE Obama's edict about the insurance companies, people were saying free birth control is a basic right.
​

I don't recall anyone saying that.

That's kind of irrelevant. Just like it's irrelevant to the fact that even though we know Charlie Sheen says, "winning," millions of Chinese have never heard him say that.

Care to cite your sources, Stig?

Not really, but I probably will in another post. It'll be the easiest task I've had in a long time.

stiggy earlier: But according to you, rights are not rights until they are codified.
​

Uh, I said that's one way rights come to us. I never said it was the only way.

So what "way" did the right to free birth control "come to us?" Oh, that's right. You've never heard anyone claim that right exists.

stiggy earlier: So it looks like we both agree that all these lefties who claimed a right to birth control BEFORE the law even states it, are all wet.
​

Nope, since most states require by law that insurance carries cover contraceptives. That means every woman in each of those states who has health insurance has a right to have contraceptives covered.

...., which obviously means that those who do NOT have health insurance do NOT have that right. Thus in spite of your erroneous "nope" above, it looks like we really do both agree that all these lefties who claimed a right to birth control BEFORE the law even states it, are all wet. And thus my question still remains unanswered:

SO WHY DO PEOPLE CLAIM FREE BIRTH CONTROL AS A RIGHT?

No one said they had to be free.

Except the huge number of people who are saying just that.

Nope. My understanding of civics is quite good.

I see. You just don't get around much, huh?

- A2SG, then again, the same has often been said of your concept of reality in general, so.....

Care to cite our sources, or are you exempt from your own repetitive demands?

EDITED TO ADD: OK, A2. You asked me for sources. Most of my sources are things I've heard people say: on CNN, FOX, a few friends and acquaintances and some internet blogs. So I think to myself, how can I get those sources onto this discussion board. I decided I can't. But then I went to google and put in "right to birth control." Naturally, I received a crapload of hits. Rather than copying and pasting thousands of sites, I figured you could do that yourself, since you're the one in the dark, not I. As far as names, they seem to be countless: Chris Matthews, Ed Schultz, the Baltimore Sun, Planned Parenthood, etc, etc.

Seriously, I thought you followed the news closer than that.

 

[A2SG]

Yeah, I know. That's a given in my post, because the founding fathers never having enumerated which rights were unalienable, I was pondering why people are now claiming that the right to free birth control is somehow unalienable. Nobody so far can tell me.

Because no one is claiming that.

If you've heard it, please cite your source.

OK. So here's what we now have:

(1). Unalienable rights include stuff like life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

According to Jefferson and Madison, at least. Some disagree, those who support the death penalty for example.

(2). We cannot know for sure whether the founding fathers considered free birth control a right, since we know from the words "among these," that it is not an exhaustive list.

True. And, so far as I can tell, no one has argued that it is an inalienable right. And you haven't said where you heard it from, so you probably just misunderstood them.

(3). SO WHY DO PEOPLE CLAIM FREE BIRTH CONTROL AS A RIGHT?

You'd have to ask whoever is making that claim. Personally, I don't know who is, so I can't answer for them. What I do know is that in most of the United States, health insurance is required by law to cover birth control. As far as I know, no one is saying it has to be free.

That was my question, if you recall.

If your only objection is to the "free" part, then I agree, birth control doesn't need to be free. Women can pay a co-pay just like for any other prescription.

Happy now?

That doesn't help at all. Since there is currently no law in the books requiring people be given free health care, this question remains:

SO WHY DO PEOPLE CLAIM FREE BIRTH CONTROL AS A RIGHT?

Again, ask whoever said that. Where did you hear it?

So many pundits from both the left and the right, that I've lost count.

Name one, then. One quote, Stig. If there are as many as you think, it shouldn't be difficult to find one.

Now if your only answer is that you are unaware that people are doing that, never mind. We just travel in different circles.

I can't help but notice how you're unable to provide even one quote, despite there being, apparently, so many saying it you've lost count.

Fantasy? If you think it's fantasy that politicians, pundits and political analysts of all persuasions are NOT claiming free birth control as a right, you're the guy in never-never land.

You haven't provided even one citation for your claim, Stig. And, so far as I know, there is no law that requires birth control be free. So...

Nah. I KNOW what I've heard scores and scores of people say, and I do not carry a tape recorder with me. Nor do I DVR every TV political analyst.

Stig, we live in the age of the Internet, where everything is quoted, and it's all just one Google click away. If someone said it, you can find it.

Otherwise, I have only your word to go by, and, well, you know....

The people who are saying that it's a right. Are you sure you read the original post in this thread?

Yup. You said "I keep hearing all these people..." but you haven't quoted them, so I don't know what you've heard. You probably heard it wrong, since I don't know of any law on the books in any state that says birth control must be free of charge.

You gotta be kidding. Maybe I'll do that in a separate reply. But I'm afraid I won't know when to stop.

How about you start with one, and then stop at one. We'll take it from there.

Sources abound.

Then it's odd you can't seem to produce even one.

No, I've got a better idea. Ask me again. Ask me like you really don't believe I can give you sources.

I don't. This is a tactic I've seen you use many, many times: you claim to have untold millions of sources which you don't have the time to produce...and then, in those rare instances where you're backed into a corner and provide one, it never says what you claim it says, but you continue to claiming that it does anyway.

So produce a source, and we can talk. If you can't, then I have no choice but to assume you're making stuff up. Again.

It will make it that much more pleasurable for me when I bombard you with them. I'll have more time tomorrow.

Cool. I look forward to it.

stiggy earlier: No, which is precisely my point. There is also no law saying we are entitled to free heath insurance.

???? I never heard anyone saying that anyone was saying there was. You seem real confused.

Ah, the old familiar Stiggy double speak: "There is no X!" No one said there was. "I never said anyone did, you seem confused!" Get some new material, would you?

But, if all you're saying here is that there is no law that grants everyone a legal right to free health care, I agree with you. There isn't.

Are we done?

How many you want? Please make it a finite number.

One. Finite enough for you?

Not really, but I probably will in another post. It'll be the easiest task I've had in a long time.

So why haven't you done it?

So what "way" did the right to free birth control "come to us?" Oh, that's right. You've never heard anyone claim that right exists.

I haven't. You say you have, but you can't seem to say where you heard it. Maybe you fell asleep and were dreaming?

...., which obviously means that those who do NOT have health insurance do NOT have that right.

Pretty much, since the law in most states only says health insurance has to cover birth control.

Thus in spite of your erroneous "nope" above, it looks like we really do both agree that all these lefties who claimed a right to birth control BEFORE the law even states it,

Nope. It's required by law in about 28 states, and has been long before this manufactured controversy began.

are all wet. And thus my question still remains unanswered:

SO WHY DO PEOPLE CLAIM FREE BIRTH CONTROL AS A RIGHT?

Ask whoever claims that.

Except the huge number of people who are saying just that.

All I hear are crickets, Stig.

Nope. My understanding of civics is quite good.

I see. You just don't get around much, huh?

Huh?

If you have a problem with my understanding of civics, by all means, show me where I've misunderstood something.

Care to cite our sources, or are you exempt from your own repetitive demands?

Source for what? My knowledge of you and our history together? That'd be me.

EDITED TO ADD: OK, A2. You asked me for sources. Most of my sources are things I've heard people say: on CNN, FOX, a few friends and acquaintances and some internet blogs.

A quote would be nice.

So I think to myself, how can I get those sources onto this discussion board. I decided I can't.

Sure you can. Find out who said it, then put their words between something we call "quote marks" (they look like this: "") and then write their name. Simple!

But then I went to google and put in "right to birth control." Naturally, I received a crapload of hits.

How about copying the first one, then pasting it here, in the reply box? I can take it from there.

Rather than copying and pasting thousands of sites,

One will do, Stig.

I figured you could do that yourself, since you're the one in the dark, not I. As far as names, they seem to be countless: Chris Matthews, Ed Schultz, the Baltimore Sun, Planned Parenthood, etc, etc.

Your claim, Stig. If you say any of those people made the claim you think they did, then it's up to you to find a quote of them saying so. I'm not going to do your homework for you.

Seriously, I thought you followed the news closer than that.

I do.

-- A2SG, weird that I haven't heard what you think you heard, isn't it?

 

[stiggywiggy]

Originally Posted by stiggywiggy

Yeah, I know. That's a given in my post, because the founding fathers never having enumerated which rights were unalienable, I was pondering why people are now claiming that the right to free birth control is somehow unalienable. Nobody so far can tell me.

​

Because no one is claiming that.

And yet they are. Over and over and over again.

If you've heard it, please cite your source.

You mean sourcES! . I already did that below. (see Matthews, Schulz, etc. comment. You are an impatient reader.)

stiggy earlier: OK. So here's what we now have:

(1). Unalienable rights include stuff like life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
​

According to Jefferson and Madison, at least. Some disagree, those who support the death penalty for example.

Bad example, particularly since those in favor of the death penalty (and I am not one) favor it because the convicted one took away ANOTHER's unalienable right, i.e. life.

stiggy earlier: (2). We cannot know for sure whether the founding fathers considered free birth control a right, since we know from the words "among these," that it is not an exhaustive list.
​

True. And, so far as I can tell, no one has argued that it is an inalienable right.

"So far as [YOU] can tell." Got it. Of course, I never claimed that all those claiming a right to birth control ever used the words inalienable or unalienable. I guess you forgot that in my original post I asked if these people considered this alleged right inalienable.

And you haven't said where you heard it from,

And yet I did. Dang, man. If you're that impatient, at LEAST go back and delete these comments AFTER you realize they are wrong. Otherwise, you're wasting both of our times.


stiggy earlier: (3). SO WHY DO PEOPLE CLAIM FREE BIRTH CONTROL AS A RIGHT?

You'd have to ask whoever is making that claim.

Been there. Done that. No answer so far. That's why I brought the question here.

Personally, I don't know who is, so I can't answer for them.

Then I guess the original post was not directed toward you.

What I do know is that in most of the United States, health insurance is required by law to cover birth control. As far as I know, no one is saying it has to be free.

Except the multitudes who are claiming just that. Your "as far as I know" is the crux of the problem here. I'm thinking that knowledge doesn't extend too far, at least with this subject.

stiggy earlier: That doesn't help at all. Since there is currently no law in the books requiring people be given free health care, this question remains:

SO WHY DO PEOPLE CLAIM FREE BIRTH CONTROL AS A RIGHT?
​

Again, ask whoever said that.

Too late. I've done it several times. I usually get either blank stares or lectures about how uncompassionate I must be.

Where did you hear it?

Amazing. You asked that same question in your last reply. I answered thoroughly in my reply to your reply. Yet you keep asking. Why?


stiggy earlier: So many pundits from both the left and the right, that I've lost count.

Name one, then.

Oh, just ONE? I see. Maybe you didn't like the numerous examples I gave, because you only wanted one???? Does Chris Matthews not count? OK. Just one: CHRIS MATTHEWS. But then I already provided that in my previous reply.

One quote, Stig.

Quotes? First you ask for sources, so I provide them. Now you want quotes within the sites? You can't read them for yourself? I need to read aloud to you from the sites I provide? No thanks.

If there are as many as you think, it shouldn't be difficult to find one.

Yep. Piece of cake. Sources abound! Want more?

stiggy earlier: Now if your only answer is that you are unaware that people are doing that, never mind. We just travel in different circles.
​

I can't help but notice how you're unable to provide even one quote,

Oh, so you noticed that I gave MANY sources instead of one?? Oh, wait. Sources will no longer do. Now that I provided them, you want quotes within the sources? Look for yourself. And if you decide not to, I don't really care. Setting you straight is not on my list of priorities either.

stiggy earlier: Fantasy? If you think it's fantasy that politicians, pundits and political analysts of all persuasions are NOT claiming free birth control as a right, you're the guy in never-never land.
​

You haven't provided even one citation for your claim, Stig.

You mean other than all the ones I provided? Is Ed Schulz uncitable? I'll bet you could kick yourself now for neglecting to delete these comments after you discovered how wrong you are at the end of my last reply. It kind of makes you look silly in retrospect.

And, so far as I know, there is no law that requires birth control be free.

Exactly, meaning there is no law on the books codifying this alleged right. That's why I asked why people are claiming this right exists. I guess you didn't pick up on that either.

stiggy earlier: Nah. I KNOW what I've heard scores and scores of people say, and I do not carry a tape recorder with me. Nor do I DVR every TV political analyst.
​

Stig, we live in the age of the Internet, where everything is quoted,

Yep. That's why I used the internet to provide the sources. Didn't pick up on that either, I guess.

and it's all just one Google click away.

Yep. Piece of cake.

If someone said it, you can find it.

Well, yeah. except that would be past tense.

stiggy earlier: The people who are saying that it's a right. Are you sure you read the original post in this thread?
​

Yup. You said "I keep hearing all these people..." but you haven't quoted them, so I don't know what you've heard.

Huh? I TOLD you what I heard. You want me to quote friends of mine? OK: Steve Adams: "I believe people have a right to free birth control." (or words to that effect; as I said, I don't carry a tape recorder around with me.)

You probably heard it wrong,

Nah. My vision sucks, but I have excellent hearing.

since I don't know of any law on the books in any state that says birth control must be free of charge.

EXACTLY! So my question remains. Why do these people keep claiming it's a right.

stiggy earlier:You gotta be kidding. Maybe I'll do that in a separate reply. But I'm afraid I won't know when to stop.
​

How about you start with one,

So you're saying "how about" I do what I've already done????? Weird.

and then stop at one.

Too late. I did not stop at one.

We'll take it from there.

Sure. Any time now.

stiggy earlier: Sources abound.
​

Then it's odd you can't seem to produce even one.

What's odd is that you forgot to delete all these erroneous claims that I didn't do the very thing you ultimately found out I did.

stiggy earlier:No, I've got a better idea. Ask me again. Ask me like you really don't believe I can give you sources.
​

I don't.

So you don't believe it was I who provided all those names? No, it was me. I don't have a "Christian Forums" assistant.

This is a tactic I've seen you use many, many times:

Yep. It's a good tactic. Guy asks for sources and names, and I provide them.

you claim to have untold millions of sources which you don't have the time to produce

Yeah, but I took the time.

...and then, in those rare instances where you're backed into a corner

I doubt you're capable of backing a tricycle into a corner.

So produce a source, and we can talk.

Start talking.

If you can't,

Too late. I already did.

then I have no choice but to assume you're making stuff up.

No longer an option for you, unless you figure I "made up" the names Chris Matthews, Planned Parenthood and Ed Schulz. More likely, you just didn't read what I typed.[/quote]

stiggy earlier: It will make it that much more pleasurable for me when I bombard you with them. I'll have more time tomorrow.
​

Cool.

It was cool!

Ah, the old familiar Stiggy double speak: "There is no X!" No one said there was. "I never said anyone did, you seem confused!"

You forgot to assign something to your variable X. Let me help you out: X = Free birth control laws. If there is no X, that alleged right is not codified, and therefore according to you, NOT a right.

Get some new material, would you?

Yeah, I used that very "material" on you. So it looks like you need some new material about getting new material.

stiggy earlier: How many you want? Please make it a finite number.
​

One.

Too late. I exceeded that number in my last reply.





stiggy earlier: Not really, but I probably will in another post. It'll be the easiest task I've had in a long time.

So why haven't you done it?

Yeah, why haven't I done that which I did, you ask.

stiggy earlier: So what "way" did the right to free birth control "come to us?" Oh, that's right. You've never heard anyone claim that right exists.
​

I haven't.

Well, you have now.

You say you have, but you can't seem to say where you heard it.

Where? You want to know my locale when I heard people say what I heard them say? How will that help?

Maybe you fell asleep

No. I was wide awake when I googled the names you requested. Although I will admit was so easy, I probably could have done it in my sleep.

stiggy earlier: Thus in spite of your erroneous "nope" above, it looks like we really do both agree that all these lefties who claimed a right to birth control BEFORE the law even states it,
​

Nope.

Nope??? So you don't even agree with your own previous contention that rights exist because they are codified? Weird.

It's required by law in about 28 states,

Who said otherwise? That fact obviously does not aid in determining why people who don't live in those states NEVERTHELESS claim it is a right.


stiggy earlier:

Except the huge number of people who are saying just that.

All I hear are crickets, Stig.

Cool. I had my sound down when I clicked on to those sites where I found the names I provided, and never got to hear the cricket noises. Did they all have them? Weird. I'll be providing website addresses later in this reply. Let me know if the cricket noises continue.

If you have a problem with my understanding of civics,

Nah, I really couldn't care less about your understanding of civics. Sorry. It's just not on my list of priorities.

stiggy earlier: Care to cite our sources, or are you exempt from your own repetitive demands?
​

Source for what? My knowledge of you and our history together?

Yeah, that.

That'd be me.

I figured so, kinda like that'd be me who is the source of what I've been claiming. So it does indeed look like you consider yourself exempt from your own repetitive demands.







stiggy earlier: So I think to myself, how can I get those sources onto this discussion board. I decided I can't.

Sure you can.

No. Can't be done. I already told you that I do not record conversations with my friends and acquaintances

Find out who said it,

I don't need to research it. I already know who said it. You need names? OK. I gave you Steve Adams. There's also Corey Linick and Tim Andrews. Why do you need names? You don't know these people.

then put their words between something we call "quote marks" (they look like this: "") and then write their name. Simple!

Simple is right. No problem: Tim Andrews: "I believe women have a right to free birth control. "

stiggy earlier: But then I went to google and put in "right to birth control." Naturally, I received a crapload of hits.
​

How about copying the first one, then pasting it here, in the reply box?

Now why would you ask me to do something you KNOW that either one of us could do?

stiggy earlier:Rather than copying and pasting thousands of sites,
​

One will do, Stig.

No problem:

Birth control debate is really about women’s rights | Business & Heritage Clarksville

The right to birth control - Baltimore Sun

women on web - Women’s right to birth control is a human right

That's three. There are several thousand more. Let me guess. You want all those too. see

stiggy earlier: I figured you could do that yourself, since you're the one in the dark, not I. As far as names, they seem to be countless: Chris Matthews, Ed Schultz, the Baltimore Sun, Planned Parenthood, etc, etc.
​

Your claim, Stig.

No, It's Ed Schultz' and Chris Matthews' claim. I certainly never claimed that we have a right to free birth control. Pay attention.

If you say any of those people made the claim you think they did,

Think?? That would be "know." Now you also KNOW it.

.

-- A2SG, weird that I haven't heard what you think you heard, isn't it?

It truly is weird. Do you live in a plastic bubble, or maybe just watch Gilligan's Island re-runs and nothing else?

 

[heymikey80]

You don't think that being able to receive medical care when you, or a member of your family is sick or hurt is an interest common to all citizens?

No. Specifically it operates to the enslavement of doctors compelled to provide free access to medical care.

Is anyone getting it yet that declaring any kind of work to be the right of the one not working, is tantamount to enslavement of the person working?

That is prohibited by the Constitution.

Therefore it's not a right. You don't have a right to someone else's work. You may contract for that work, but you must compensate that person via the contract.

 

[Corey]

This is true. The free market doesn't exist in some alternate reality - and no, it's absurd to think the free market can't provide affordable and dependable health care.

Then why are there 47 Million + people who don't have healthcare? If the free market is so efficient, then you would expect them to be covered by insurance too.

 

[MachZer0]

Then why are there 47 Million + people who don't have healthcare? If the free market is so efficient, then you would expect them to be covered by insurance too.

Some don't want the insurance, and some are illegal aliens. A lot are illegal aliens.

 

[Corey]

Some don't want the insurance, and some are illegal aliens. A lot are illegal aliens.

You sure about that? Got a source besides Imagination Land?

Mine says no. (FactCheck.org : Uninsured U.S. Citizens)

 

[A2SG]

You mean sourcES! . I already did that below. (see Matthews, Schulz, etc. comment. You are an impatient reader.)

Since a lot of the next few bits is you saying you did this later on, let's just skip to it, shall we?

Here are your sources:

"Does Chris Matthews not count?"

No quote there, so I have no idea whether Chris Matthews counts or not.

"Is Ed Schulz uncitable?"

He definitely can be cited, but you haven't done that. All you did was mention his name.

"Steve Adams: "I believe people have a right to free birth control." (or words to that effect; as I said, I don't carry a tape recorder around with me.)"

Um, Stig, that's nothing more than a personal opinion. I don't know why this person believes birth control should be free, but he isn't saying it as a fact, only as a belief. His belief that something should be so doesn't make it so, Stig.

"There's also Corey Linick and Tim Andrews."

Again, no quotes, so I have no idea what these people claimed, if anything.

"Tim Andrews: "I believe women have a right to free birth control. ""

Another person giving their personal opinion.

And you offered three links. Let's see:

Birth control debate is really about women’s rights | Business & Heritage Clarksville

An opinion piece, which does not say that birth control should be free, and certainly not that it's an inalienable right.

The right to birth control - Baltimore Sun

This one actually has some facts in it, I admit I'm stunned! It says: "Last year, the Institute of Medicine recommended that the U.S. government require health insurers to provide certain preventive services without co-pays or deductibles, including contraceptives, as part of the Affordable Care Act."

and "After President Barack Obama announced a compromise on Friday — that insurance companies must provide free contraceptives when employers refuse to pay..."

I'm not sure what weight is behind Obama's compromise here, I can't find any indication that he signed it into law, so it may only be a suggestion from the bully pulpit.

As such, if your objection is to the free part, I agree: I don't see why contraceptives have to be treated differently than any other medication. Beyond that, I don't know what your problem is.

women on web - Women’s right to birth control is a human right

Another opinion piece.

Okay then. Here's where we stand: some people seem to believe that birth control should be free. These people are, of course, entitled to their opinion, just like everyone else. You disagree. No problem there. No one said you had to.

But no one is saying birth control, free or otherwise, is an inalienable right. Not a one.

As to the facts of the matter, I'm unclear on whether or not the affordable care act requires birth control to be free, or if it just requires it be covered. If it requires birth control be available, then, at least as far as the law goes, it would seem to be a legal right.

However, as to whether or not free birth control is an inalienable right, that does not seem to be the case, even if the affordable care act requires it. The law, as with any law, can be repealed.

Now that we're done with that, let's see what else you have to say:

Bad example, particularly since those in favor of the death penalty (and I am not one) favor it because the convicted one took away ANOTHER's unalienable right, i.e. life.

Right. Proponents of the death penalty believe murderers forfeit their right to life, so they don't believe the right to life is inalienable. In other words, it's an excellent example of someone who disagrees with Jefferson and Madison that rights, like the right to life are inalienable.

That you and I disagree with them isn't really the issue here, Stig.

"So far as [YOU] can tell." Got it. Of course, I never claimed that all those claiming a right to birth control ever used the words inalienable or unalienable.

And I never said you did. Are you confused about this?

I guess you forgot that in my original post I asked if these people considered this alleged right inalienable.

You asked: "Is this an inalienable right?" It isn't.

As to what other people believe or what opinions they hold, that's up to them. But I never said it was an unalienable right, nor has anyone else, to my knowledge.

And yet I did. Dang, man. If you're that impatient, at LEAST go back and delete these comments AFTER you realize they are wrong. Otherwise, you're wasting both of our times.

You've heard a few opinions, little more. And you've offered nothing to indicate anyone believes free birth control is an inalienable right.

Been there. Done that. No answer so far. That's why I brought the question here.

And you have my answer.

Then I guess the original post was not directed toward you.

You asked a general question, I answered it.

Except the multitudes who are claiming just that.

There are "multitudes" who seem to believe it should be free, but those are nothing more than opinions. If the affordable care act requires contraceptives to be free (and I'm still unclear on whether or not it does), then it is required by law. That's not the same as it being inalienable, though.

Your "as far as I know" is the crux of the problem here. I'm thinking that knowledge doesn't extend too far, at least with this subject.

I never claimed to know everything, Stig. If you're going to criticize me for not knowing what you've heard when you don't tell me what you've heard, well....

Too late. I've done it several times. I usually get either blank stares or lectures about how uncompassionate I must be.

I can sympathize with the blank stares, I've often been puzzled at how removed you can be from reality sometimes.

Amazing. You asked that same question in your last reply. I answered thoroughly in my reply to your reply. Yet you keep asking. Why?

Because you didn't reply thoroughly. Now you've at least offered a few quotes and links, but none of them support your claim: no one is saying birth control, free or otherwise, is an inalienable right.

Oh, just ONE? I see. Maybe you didn't like the numerous examples I gave, because you only wanted one???? Does Chris Matthews not count? OK. Just one: CHRIS MATTHEWS. But then I already provided that in my previous reply.

You mentioned the name, but you didn't provide a quote or a cite. What, am I supposed to pore through everything the man has ever said, hoping to find the one thing you think you heard?

Sorry, no.

Quotes? First you ask for sources, so I provide them.

Not yet, you hadn't. And even now, you still haven't. You've offered a few opinions, but nothing to indicate anyone is saying birth control is an inalienable right.

Now you want quotes within the sites? You can't read them for yourself? I need to read aloud to you from the sites I provide? No thanks.

I read the posts you provided. None say what you seem to think they said.

Yep. Piece of cake. Sources abound! Want more?

Not really, but if you think someone's claiming birth control, free or otherwise, is an inalienable right, you'll have to. None of the sources you have provided do that.

Oh, so you noticed that I gave MANY sources instead of one??

Two quotes and three web sites, but it's better than usual, so thank you.

Of course, none of them claim birth control, free or otherwise, is an inalienable right, so you're wrong on that claim.

Oh, wait. Sources will no longer do.

Sorry, who said that?

Now that I provided them, you want quotes within the sources?

I got both of the opinions you quoted. Neither one said birth control was an inalienable right, but they did seem to believe it should be free.

Look for yourself. And if you decide not to, I don't really care. Setting you straight is not on my list of priorities either.

I did look at what you provided, Stig, I even read the web sites you linked to...don't get so huffy, man.

You mean other than all the ones I provided? Is Ed Schulz uncitable? I'll bet you could kick yourself now for neglecting to delete these comments after you discovered how wrong you are at the end of my last reply. It kind of makes you look silly in retrospect.

Why would I delete anything? You claimed people were saying something, without saying who. Then you mentioned a couple names, without any quotes so I have no idea what they said....and now, you've offered a couple of opinions, none of which say what you claimed they said.

If anyone should regret what they said and delete it, it sure ain't me!

Exactly, meaning there is no law on the books codifying this alleged right.

You'll have to read the affordable care act to be sure. I'm not sure if being free is required or not.

That's why I asked why people are claiming this right exists. I guess you didn't pick up on that either.

Because no one is. All your quotes show is that some people believe birth control should be free. No one claimed it's an inalienable right, as you seem to think.

Yep. That's why I used the internet to provide the sources. Didn't pick up on that either, I guess.

When I typed that, you hadn't.

Well, yeah. except that would be past tense.

Nope. You quoted no one saying birth control, free or otherwise, is an inalienable right.

Huh? I TOLD you what I heard. You want me to quote friends of mine? OK: Steve Adams: "I believe people have a right to free birth control." (or words to that effect; as I said, I don't carry a tape recorder around with me.)

He may believe that, but he doesn't seem to think it's an inalienable right. At least, if he does, he didn't say that.

EXACTLY! So my question remains. Why do these people keep claiming it's a right.

If the affordable care act requires it, then it is a legal right. As it stands, most states do require that birth control be covered by insurance, so it's been a legal right in that respect for a while now.

then I have no choice but to assume you're making stuff up.

No longer an option for you, unless you figure I "made up" the names Chris Matthews, Planned Parenthood and Ed Schulz.

I never said you made up the names....only that you made up the stuff about them claiming birth control, free or otherwise, is an inalienable right. You never quoted or cited any of them, so as far as I can tell, none of them have ever said that.

More likely, you just didn't read what I typed.

I read everything you type. You haven't typed a quote from ANYONE claiming birth control, free or otherwise, is an inalienable right.

You forgot to assign something to your variable X. Let me help you out: X = Free birth control laws. If there is no X, that alleged right is not codified, and therefore according to you, NOT a right.

Nope. I never said all rights are codified, Stig.

Nope??? So you don't even agree with your own previous contention that rights exist because they are codified? Weird.

I never said that. I said that rights come to us in a variety of ways, one of them is through the law. If the law says you are entitled to something, or that something is required, then it's a right, in the legal sense. A legal right, if you will.

That doesn't, of course, make it inalienable.

Who said otherwise? That fact obviously does not aid in determining why people who don't live in those states NEVERTHELESS claim it is a right.

They're not.

I don't need to research it. I already know who said it. You need names? OK. I gave you Steve Adams. There's also Corey Linick and Tim Andrews. Why do you need names? You don't know these people.

If you want to say they said something, you'll have to cite it, or at least give me the quote. Otherwise, how can I know what they said?

From what you have provided, none of them have said birth control, free or otherwise, is an inalienable right, so your knowledge of what they said is already suspect.

That's three. There are several thousand more. Let me guess. You want all those too.

Not necessary. You've already proven what I said: none of those sites claim birth control, free or otherwise, is an inalienable right.

No, It's Ed Schultz' and Chris Matthews' claim. I certainly never claimed that we have a right to free birth control. Pay attention.

And as far as I can tell, they haven't claimed it either. You haven't provided a quote from either of those men, so I have no idea what they claim.

-- A2SG, I've seen Chris Matthews once or twice, and I only know Ed Schultz by reputation, and that only by his occasional appearances on Rachel Maddow....

 

[heymikey80]

You sure about that? Got a source besides Imagination Land?

Mine says no. (FactCheck.org : Uninsured U.S. Citizens)

Hm. The numbers do say this is a lot.

Granted that around 9% of the population is non-citizen, and 44% of non-citizens are uninsured, that puts the net comparative percentage of non-citizens as a percent of the population at at 4%.

The remainder ratchets out to about 14% of the population itself being without insurance.

That means the net load of non-citizens is about 28% of the uninsured in this country. More than 1/4 of the uninsured are non-citizens.

And that's based on your source.

 

[[serious]]

Hm. The numbers do say this is a lot.

Granted that around 9% of the population is non-citizen, and 44% of non-citizens are uninsured, that puts the net comparative percentage of non-citizens as a percent of the population at at 4%.

The remainder ratchets out to about 14% of the population itself being without insurance.

That means the net load of non-citizens is about 28% of the uninsured in this country. More than 1/4 of the uninsured are non-citizens.

And that's based on your source.

1. The original statement was "a lot are illegal aliens," not, "non-citizens"
2. His source doesn't say that over 1/4 of the uninsured population is non-citizen. His source says, "According to the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation, 79 percent of the uninsured are native or naturalized U.S. citizens. The remaining 21 percent accounts for both legal and illegal immigrants."

His source doesn't cite how many uninsured illegals there are, so I looked for a different source:

Jeffrey Passell is the center's senior demographer, and he's used the census data to calculate estimates of illegal immigrants for Pew. He told us that Pew's data indicate that 11.9 million illegal immigrants were in the United States in 2007. About 6.8 million of them did not have health insurance.

link
That gives us 15% of the uninsured population is illegal.

 

[stiggywiggy]

Since a lot of the next few bits is you saying you did this later on, let's just skip to it, shall we?

Here are your sources:

"Does Chris Matthews not count?"

No quote there,

So what? Here's a quote:

The Hardball anchor began by playing a clip of Limbaugh asserting, "Could it be that Democrats fear kids? I mean, they are aborting their own people. The vast majority of people having abortions are Democrat voters." An angry Matthews responded, "It is an astounding assault on women's rights that he's playing to there.

Read more: Chris Matthews Rants Over Rush Limbaugh's 'Astounding,' 'Crazy' 'Assault on Women's Rights' | NewsBusters.org
​

so I have no idea whether Chris Matthews counts or not.

Oh, I see. You ask for names of guys who believe what I said they believe. I give you a name. Now you're wondering if the guy whose name I gave you counts??

"Is Ed Schulz uncitable?"

He definitely can be cited, but you haven't done that.

And yet I did. How can you be so consistently wrong:

cite

1    /saɪt/ Show Spelled[sahyt] Show IPA
verb (used with object), cit·ed, cit·ing. 1. to quote (a passage, book, author, etc.), especially as an authority: He cited the constitution in his defense.

2. to mention in support, proof, or confirmation; refer to as an example: He cited many instances of abuse of power

All you did was mention his name.

Yep. In other words I cited Ed Schulz, and you're wrong once again.

"Steve Adams: "I believe people have a right to free birth control." (or words to that effect; as I said, I don't carry a tape recorder around with me.)"

Um, Stig, that's nothing more than a personal opinion.

Yeah. I know. That's because you asked me for names of those who believed what I said they believed. I guess you forgot that. Most people's beliefs are personal opinions. Did you need impersonal opinions?

I don't know why this person believes birth control should be free,

Nor do I. Thus my question in my original post..

"There's also Corey Linick and Tim Andrews."

Again, no quotes, so I have no idea what these people claimed, if anything.

C'mon. What are you trying to do? Break your previous record for most incorrect statements in one post? I quoted Tim Andrews in my last reply. It's advisable to read replies first to avoid embarrassments like this.

"Tim Andrews: "I believe women have a right to free birth control. ""

Another person giving their personal opinion.

Yeah, that'd be the very guy you just erroneously claimed was not quoted, just a paragraph ago. I think you're having an off night.

And you offered three links. Let's see:

Birth control debate is really about women’s rights | Business & Heritage Clarksville

An opinion piece,

Yeah. I had asked how people came to the OPINION that free health care is a right. Then you questioned whether people really had that OPINION. Then I give you an opinion. Then you tell me I gave you an opinion. I agree. I did indeed give you what you asked for.

which does not say that birth control should be free,

Oh. So you figure these people think that some rights should be PAID FOR?? Weird.

women on web - Women’s right to birth control is a human right

Another opinion piece.

Yeah. I had asked how people came to the OPINION that free health care is a right. Then you questioned whether people really had that OPINION. Then I give you an opinion. Then you tell me I gave you an opinion. I agree. I did indeed give you what you asked for.

But no one is saying birth control, free or otherwise, is an inalienable right. Not a one.

Yeah? And since I never claimed anyone did, why are you telling me this?

You asked: "Is this an inalienable right?"

It was rhetorical. Go back and read it again. I was asking if the people who believe in this alleged right thought it was inalienable. I sure never thought it was.

You've heard a few opinions, little more.

Few?? WRONG!! As I said in my original post, I have heard those OPINIONS from many people.

And you've offered nothing to indicate anyone believes free birth control is an inalienable right.

Uh, that might explain why it was ME who asked if anyone actually believed that. Am I required to answer my own questions, if no one else does?

no one is saying birth control, free or otherwise, is an inalienable right.

You're right. NO ONE so far!! Not even myself. So why are you telling me obvious things that we cannot possibly disagree on? You make no sense.

You mentioned the name, but you didn't provide a quote or a cite.

You wanted me to cite a name. I did (see previous definition). Yet you still complain.

What, am I supposed to pore through everything the man has ever said, hoping to find the one thing you think you heard?

Now how in the world are you going to pore over everything a friend of mine said, someone you don't even know? I know the guy, and even I don't have access to his entire life. And why would you even need to do that? I told you what these guys said. You are still in doubt. But that bothers me not a whit. Should it?

Not yet, you hadn't. And even now, you still haven't.

And yet I have.

You've offered a few opinions,

Yep. You asked for them. Have you already forgotten that it was OPINIONS I was talking about? Or perhaps you thought I thought that they were offering facts?

but nothing to indicate anyone is saying birth control is an inalienable right.

Who are you talking to? Look, if some guy has entered this thread and is claiming that people who believe in the right to birth control are also claiming it is inalienable, find out who it is and direct your comments toward him. As it is, you are obviously confusing identities.

Not really, but if you think someone's claiming birth control, free or otherwise, is an inalienable right,

Why would you think I'd think that? You REALLY need to start paying attention to what you're reading. Or at least try to realize whose posts you're reading.

Two quotes and three web sites, but it's better than usual

Yep. Triple the amount you asked for.

Of course, none of them claim birth control, free or otherwise, is an inalienable right, so you're wrong on that claim.

Yet I never claimed that, as will be apparent in your next reply when you fail miserably to provide such a quote from me, Wrong-Way.

I got both of the opinions you quoted.

That's all you will get: opinions. My original post asked why people have the opinion that free birth control is a right. Did you miss that?

Why would I delete anything? You claimed people were saying something, without saying who.

Nope. I gave you names of famous people and names of people I know. Did you miss that? Names of people are answers to "who."

Then you mentioned a couple names,

Even though you only asked for one.

without any quotes

Nope. Hint: Quotation marks usually indicate quotes. Tim Andrews, Steve Adams, Chris Mathews (whose quote is in the website I cited). How do you keeep missing this stuff?

so I have no idea what they said

You can't read?


.

...and now, you've offered a couple of opinions,

Even though you only asked for one.

No one claimed it's an inalienable right, as you seem to think.

Sure, Wrong-Way. Do me a favor this time. Go and try to validate that claim. When you fail at it, then accept your nickname above.

I read everything you type. You haven't typed a quote from ANYONE claiming birth control, free or otherwise, is an inalienable right.

Wow. Maybe that's why I specifically asked for such a quote.

From what you have provided, none of them have said birth control, free or otherwise, is an inalienable right,

Uh, OK. Why are you telling me something that is axiomatic to a question I asked? Maybe you forgot the question: DO PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN THIS ALLEGED RIGHT THINK IT IS INALIENABLE?

Not necessary. You've already proven what I said: none of those sites claim birth control, free or otherwise, is an inalienable right.

Uh, who said they said they were? Confused again? Is it fatigue? Take a break for your own good, Wro..., I mean Artie.

 

[A2SG]

So what? Here's a quote:

The Hardball anchor began by playing a clip of Limbaugh asserting, "Could it be that Democrats fear kids? I mean, they are aborting their own people. The vast majority of people having abortions are Democrat voters." An angry Matthews responded, "It is an astounding assault on women's rights that he's playing to there.

Read more: Chris Matthews Rants Over Rush Limbaugh's 'Astounding,' 'Crazy' 'Assault on Women's Rights' | NewsBusters.org
​

Nowhere in that story did Matthews, or anyone, say birth control, free or otherwise, was an inalienable right.

Yeah. I had asked how people came to the OPINION that free health care is a right.

You'd have to ask them that, individually.

As to the question you asked: "Is this an inalienable right?"

It isn't.

And nothing in anything you've quoted indicates anyone believes it is. So your question has been answered.

Oh. So you figure these people think that some rights should be PAID FOR?? Weird.

What's weird about it? Many rights involve things that should be paid for. For example, you have the right to bear arms, but you still have to pay for the guns.

-- A2SG, since the rest of your post is just more of the same, plus a few insults, I'll let it go....

 

[Corey]

Hm. The numbers do say this is a lot.

Granted that around 9% of the population is non-citizen, and 44% of non-citizens are uninsured, that puts the net comparative percentage of non-citizens as a percent of the population at at 4%.

The remainder ratchets out to about 14% of the population itself being without insurance.

That means the net load of non-citizens is about 28% of the uninsured in this country. More than 1/4 of the uninsured are non-citizens.

And that's based on your source.

I think you need to retake your mathematic courses again and perhaps some basic reading comprehension. You seemed to have skipped this part:

Ever since health coverage became a major issue in the 2008 presidential campaign, we’ve received periodic questions from readers who wonder whether a large percentage of the uninsured are non-citizens or illegal immigrants. They’re not. According to the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation, 79 percent of the uninsured are native or naturalized U.S. citizens[emphasis added]. The remaining 21 percent accounts for both legal and illegal immigrants.

You also missed the key quote from the poster I quoted: "a lot are illegals."

What constitutes "a lot" you might ask? Well, if you want to get down to it, this context of the comment strongly implies that "a lot" means "most" or at the very minimum, a plurality.

The Factcheck article shows very clearly that most people without insurance in the US are citizens. Only about 1 in 5 are noncitizens, a classification that means legal and illegal residents. Even assuming an even split between legal and illegal, that means only 1 in 10 of the uninsured are illegal immigrants. That doesn't constitute what I consider to be "a lot."

 

[heymikey80]

Jeffrey Passell is the center's senior demographer, and he's used the census data to calculate estimates of illegal immigrants for Pew. He told us that Pew's data indicate that 11.9 million illegal immigrants were in the United States in 2007. About 6.8 million of them did not have health insurance.

link
That gives us 15% of the uninsured population is illegal.

Okay, so you want to talk illegal aliens. So you're saying 6.8 M people is not a lot of people?

BTW, that's census data, normally an undercount.

 

[heymikey80]

I think you need to retake your mathematic courses again and perhaps some basic reading comprehension. You seemed to have skipped this part:



You also missed the key quote from the poster I quoted: "a lot are illegals."

What constitutes "a lot" you might ask? Well, if you want to get down to it, this context of the comment strongly implies that "a lot" means "most" or at the very minimum, a plurality.

I think you need to take perhaps some basic reading comprehension. "A lot" means "a lot". Not "most", not even "a plurality".

But thank you for your own gaffe, which overwhelms my response in its cacophony.

Again, I'll question something I think is on the same par: you're saying we have to collectively fund the medical care for non-citizens as well as citizens? Why isn't 28% the more concerning percentage? After all, we're paying all this money for people who are here, but not citizens, and as a percentage are not paying the medical load they're putting on the system. That is the more concerning issue for me.

And how do you propose enforcing this? By fining non-citizens? What'll that accomplish? Not much. And they'll still report to the same hospitals when in medical need.

 

[stiggywiggy]

Originally Posted by stiggywiggy

So what? Here's a quote:

The Hardball anchor began by playing a clip of Limbaugh asserting, "Could it be that Democrats fear kids? I mean, they are aborting their own people. The vast majority of people having abortions are Democrat voters." An angry Matthews responded, "It is an astounding assault on women's rights that he's playing to there.

Read more: Chris Matthews Rants Over Rush Limbaugh's 'Astounding,' 'Crazy' 'Assault on Women's Rights' | NewsBusters.org​

​

Nowhere in that story did Matthews, or anyone, say birth control, free or otherwise, was an inalienable right.

And since nowhere did I claim he did, why would you type something like that?


stiggy earlier:Yeah. I had asked how people came to the OPINION that free health care is a right.

You'd have to ask them that, individually.

I already did that. In fact, my original post ASKS that very thing of individuals. Or maybe you think Christian Forum members are not individuals. Pay attention.

As to the question you asked: "Is this an inalienable right?"

It isn't.

I never said it was.

And nothing in anything you've quoted indicates anyone believes it is.

I never said it did. Why are you telling me obvious stuff that can easily be verified, and which no one is disputing?

So your question has been answered.

Wrong again. I had asked if those who believe that free birth control is a right, also believed it to be an inalienable right. No one who believes that answered.

-- A2SG, since the rest of your post is just more of the same, plus a few insults, I'll let it go....

Actually, most of the rest of my post is me replying to your erroneous comment that I had said that advocates of this so-called right believe it to be inalieanable. You made that blunder at least six times. I called you on it. You naturally can't reply, since you obviously cannot copy and paste anything from me making that claim. If you feel insulted by my bringing up this failure of yours, I apologize.