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We Are Republicans, and We Want Trump Defeated

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by SummerMadness, Dec 18, 2019.

  1. SummerMadness

    SummerMadness Senior Veteran

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    We Are Republicans, and We Want Trump Defeated
     
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  2. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    My view: I've always thought Trump's Presidency a sad mess. From the moment it appeared he had a chance to win the Republican nomination I thought it likely he'd do something incredibly stupid, possibly criminal while in office. So, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he has done something illegal and the Democrats have the evidence to convict.

    But here's the thing:
    1) I wouldn't be surprised if 80+ percent of all President's have done something criminal (or at least unethical) while in office. And I expect the pressure to do something criminal has increased magnitudes since GW as the power of the Presidency has increased. It's just that most didn't get caught. However, with current surveillance technology and a very different definition of loyalty than years ago, it's getting easier. So, I expect to see more and more of this, and the nation will become more and more unstable.
    2) The Democrats have been on a witch hunt since day one, and what they've done is just as bad as Trump's insanity. They were shocked by his victory and felt helpless to do anything because Trump doesn't play by the rules. Therefore, whether the evidence is legitimate or not, history will remember this as a witch hunt and a turning point.
    3) There is a provision for letting the citizens remove a President from office. It's called voting. However, as those in Washington know, and as Noam Chomsky has articulated, the power structures in the U.S. have come near to making the voting process impotent.
    3) Therefore, the turning point is this: The Democrats are setting a precedent for institutionalizing a process whereby one party can remove a sitting President that they don't like without the consent of the public.

    Now what happens when, in the future, we have a sitting President - a commander in chief of the armed forces - who considers that unilateral action invalid. You do the math.
     
  3. Speedwell

    Speedwell Well-Known Member

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    Of course, the Democrats are part of "the public" too, about half of the public in this case. And what they are doing is invoking a legitimate constitutional process for removing an unsatisfactory public official. As for setting a precedent, the impeachment process has been employed 19 times in US history, twice against sitting Presidents, so it's hardly some new idea the Democrats just cooked up to "get Trump.".
    And, of course, the Democrats can impeach the President but they can't remove him from office without the cooperation of a significant number of Republicans.
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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  5. Paulos23

    Paulos23 Never tell me the odds!

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    While I can agree with most of that, the Democrats are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Don't impeach and let the President run without any checks, do impeach and watch the other party try this with the next President.

    The problem is that Trump has done so many questionable things and pushed so hard against Congressional over site that there is no other option. Even if this doesn't remove him, this needs to be done so that the next President that decides to follow Trump in not allowing Congressional over site, should have pause to think it is a bad idea.

    And here is the thing, when Clinton was under impeachment, he threw open the doors and let them talk to everyone. Didn't hold anything back. Nor did Obama. The next President that is open with Congress will have to be squeaky clean.
     
  6. Albion

    Albion Factchecker

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    Oh, so YOU'RE the one. :)
     
  7. wing2000

    wing2000 E pluribus unum Supporter

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    ...one can start a movement : )
     
  8. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    By "Democrat" I meant elected Democrats, which is much less than half. In terms of the American populace, I believe there are many more who identify as Democrat than Republican.

    Regardless, you missed my point. As the House prepared to impeach Nixon & Clinton, they had significant bipartisan agreement. It was a more unified process. This is solely one party against another, and the calls for impeachment started almost before Trump had spoken the last words of his oath.
     
  9. yougottabekidding

    yougottabekidding Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, and if/when the House flips because of it, there will be actions held to accountability.

    Can you imagine being a Freshman Democrat who ran on getting things done having to go back to your supporters at this point.

    Karma is a nasty thing
     
  10. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    After posting, I realized I had left something out. My apologies for that. You are correct. The Republican Party is not blameless here. They have essentially abdicated their responsibilities. I would bet that, if they were to speak honestly, many Republicans wanted this to happen; they stood quietly by waiting for it while refusing to speak up so as not to appear disloyal to the party.
     
  11. Speedwell

    Speedwell Well-Known Member

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    Which the "elected" Democrats mostly resisted until this Ukraine business came up.
     
  12. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    There are a few waiting in the wings. If Kasich runs I will support him.
     
  13. durangodawood

    durangodawood Dis Member

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    Well, we're in a different era. There's basically war between the parties. So partisanship in itself says zero about the merits of the impeachment case.

    And yeah there was impeachment chatter. Trump violated the emoluments clause from day one, with every indication he'd just carry on doing so, as he has. And they way he was groomed by Russia is pretty disturbing.
     
  14. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    They started before he took the oath.
     
  15. GreatLakes4Ever

    GreatLakes4Ever Well-Known Member

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    A lot of people voted for Democrats for Congress because they wanted a check on the president. Those people are quite happy with Democrats pursuing impeachment against a president who does not believe in Congressional oversight.
     
  16. Bobber

    Bobber Well-Known Member

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  17. Rubiks

    Rubiks proud libtard

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    Such as?
     
  18. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    The education system. Kids can't find their own state on the map. Many can't compose a coherent paragraph. They are intimidated into going to college even though they will need remedial schooling in order to pass an entry exam.
     
  19. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    FWIW, this from Rep Hurd, "Today, we have seen a rushed process divide our country. Today, a dangerous precedent will be set — impeachment becoming a weaponized political tool." It concisely echoes my point. But it comes from a Republican, so it will be ignored ... until Republicans impeach the next sitting Democrat.
     
  20. Albion

    Albion Factchecker

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    That's probably correct to say, but if this happens and we all consider it to be terribly unfortunate, we must remember which party made it a reality by breaking with our nation's history and impeaching a president merely for winning his election. It is not, IOW, simply a development that is part of any civilization's life cycle or an inevitable consequence of something-or-other. :(
     
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