We Are NOT Entitled to Success - Obama

[kermit]

What? on earth does that have to do with me paying school taxes when I have never had children????


Besides the dr's. and nurses get PAID for what they do.

Apples and oranges.

You benefit from their core education. As well as from the countless others whom your life benefits. We all benefit from the investment in eduction.

 

[linssue55]

When we WORK hard, we are entitled to what we work for.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I have NEVER had children! Yet I have paid school taxes for 45 years. Is this fair??? NO, it is not!

Why isn't it fair?
You pay for roads that you will never drive on, books in public libraries that you will never read, parks that you will never visit, Etc. Should you pay only for those things that you directly benefit from?

 

[linssue55]

You benefit from their core education. As well as from the countless others whom your life benefits. We all benefit from the investment in eduction.

Not when it is compulsary education!!

 

[USincognito]

I disagree. If we achieve in life then we are entitled to it...others are not "entitled" to our success.

You're using "entitled" in a way most normal people don't.

And that phrase could be heard on Conservative talk radio any day of the year.

People aren't entitled to success. They have an opportunity to be successful. Success is not given nor guarenteed.

 

[USincognito]

Do you ever have anything of substance to say or are you just full of nothing but off the wall one-liners?

Give him some credit. He's gone like 20 posts without writing "mulatto muslim".

I have NEVER had children! Yet I have paid school taxes for 45 years. Is this fair??? NO, it is not!

Not as long, but same here. I feel a bit differently though.

 

[USincognito]

The more you make, the more the government takes...

Except for payroll taxes. Then, the more you make, the less you pay as a percentage of income.

 

[Belk]

and the reason you are mad the president thinks people should work hard in order to succeed is?

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

What? on earth does that have to do with me paying school taxes when I have never had children????

You directly (and indirectly) benefit from the education of other people's children, even if you never had any of your own.

 

[Cromulent]

linssue55, have you ever had your life saved by the fire brigade, police or the army?

Do you object to paying for the fire brigade, police, and army because they protect other people, and not necessarily you?

Do you think people should have to pay the police from their own pocket to investigate individual crimes, or give the fire brigade money before they turn the hoses onto your house, or club together and pay mercenaries to protect your individual street instead of having a national army?

 

[kiwimac]

No person is 'entitled' to success, all success, however you define it, must be worked for, it is not, never has been and never will be an entitlement.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Capitalism's appeal is built around two assumptions:

1. Equal opportunity, and
2. Wealth being earned as a result of effort.

Both of these are nullified by hereditary wealth, elitist networks and education that's only available to those who are rich enough to afford it.

Basically, the only thing that keeps people from realizing just how rotten this system is - is the erroneous belief that you, yes, YOU are going to be part of the rich elite some day, due to hard work and talent.

But the sad truth of the matter is that there are plenty of professions out there where no amount of effort or dedication will ever make you rich; and that rags-to-riches stories are rare exceptions that depend very much on sheer good luck, extraordinary circumstances and other factors beyond individual control.
We hold on to the shining exceptions to maintain the illusion that we, too, are headed in that direction.
But the heart of the matter is that social mobility is mostly a myth.

 

[1whirlwind]

You aren't entitled to success in this country... why is that a outlandish statement?

Or do you support giving awards for just trying and just showing up?

Just because you try at something doesn't mean you will succeed.

"Just because you try doesn't mean you will succeed" is true but...we are entitled to success when we do. In other words, when Success Is Ours it is ours. We earned it, we own it, we built it and as it is ours it shouldn't be taken away to be shared by those that don't own it. Or, to put it in your words....given to those that "just showed up" or...just lined up.

The word "entitled" can be seen through the prism of conservative or liberal eyes. When we are told...you are NOT entitled to success I, as a conservative, see the president saying that I am not entitled to own what I accomplished. The "fair share" idea comes to mind as well as visions of communism with the "not entitled to success" remark.

Communism works only in heaven, where they don't need it, and in hell where they've already got it
- Ronald Reagan.​

.

 

[1whirlwind]

You're using "entitled" in a way most normal people don't.

And that phrase could be heard on Conservative talk radio any day of the year.

People aren't entitled to success. They have an opportunity to be successful. Success is not given nor guarenteed.

If properly phrased it should be....others are NOT entitled to your success.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

"Just because you try doesn't mean you will succeed" is true but...we are entitled to success when we do. In other words, when Success Is Ours it is ours. We earned it, we own it, we built it and as it is ours it shouldn't be taken away to be shared by those that don't own it. Or, to put it in your words....given to those that "just showed up" or...just lined up.

The word "entitled" can be seen through the prism of conservative or liberal eyes. When we are told...you are NOT entitled to success I, as a conservative, see the president saying that I am not entitled to own what I accomplished. The "fair share" idea comes to mind as well as visions of communism with the "not entitled to success" remark.

Yes, when you view the word through a broken lens your vision is going to be obscured.

 

[1whirlwind]

Capitalism's appeal is built around two assumptions:

1. Equal opportunity, and
2. Wealth being earned as a result of effort.

Both of these are nullified by hereditary wealth, elitist networks and education that's only available to those who are rich enough to afford it.

Basically, the only thing that keeps people from realizing just how rotten this system is - is the erroneous belief that you, yes, YOU are going to be part of the rich elite some day, due to hard work and talent.

But the sad truth of the matter is that there are plenty of professions out there where no amount of effort or dedication will ever make you rich; and that rags-to-riches stories are rare exceptions that depend very much on sheer good luck, extraordinary circumstances and other factors beyond individual control.
We hold on to the shining exceptions to maintain the illusion that we, too, are headed in that direction.
But the heart of the matter is that social mobility is mostly a myth.

Wow....that sounds so Occupy Wall Street'ish.

 

[1whirlwind]

Yes, when you view the word through a broken lens your vision is going to be obscured.

When the one speaking the word has a history...we would be foolish not to SEE what is being said.



.

 

[Quincunx]

Capitalism's appeal is built around two assumptions:

1. Equal opportunity, and
2. Wealth being earned as a result of effort.

True! This is, essentially the crux of the "American Dream". ANyone can make it with sufficient opportunity.

Both of these are nullified by hereditary wealth, elitist networks and education that's only available to those who are rich enough to afford it.

Also quite true. Ever thus shall it be. That's why the wealthiest garner more and more of the US money. Wealth tends to attract more wealth.

Basically, the only thing that keeps people from realizing just how rotten this system is - is the erroneous belief that you, yes, YOU are going to be part of the rich elite some day, due to hard work and talent.

But remember, as Americans we don't always throw people to the wolves. Sometimes we pull together and we help each other as well:

Look at Paul Ryan! He's actually a story of how good America can be as a nation. A young man whose dirt-poor lawyer father, tragically passed away when Paul was only 16, and I'm guessing as a dirt poor lawyer the guy hadn't left anything like money or even a life insurance policy for the family, but Paul was given a "shot", a "chance" to make it despite all the unfortunate things that fell on him. The US government had a program that said: When someone has this problem befall them it shouldn't destroy all they have. Paul still had opportunity! And we paid for his university education!

Paul was also able to make use of his grandfather's company which made lots of money off of government contracts and Paul worked for that company for a year after college.

Then Paul made a very smart move (thus reinforcing for us why we the taxpayers saw something worth funding in him for college)...he married rich.

Paul had now "made it". He started work for the US government at age 28 and is now one of the most well-known political figures of this decade.

But the sad truth of the matter is that there are plenty of professions out there where no amount of effort or dedication will ever make you rich; and that rags-to-riches stories are rare exceptions that depend very much on sheer good luck, extraordinary circumstances and other factors beyond individual control.

And those jobs can often be done by Chinese people for much, much less. So when we take those jobs away from Americans it will spur them on to go get their college degrees in computer science. Then when those jobs are determined to be off-shorable and Indians can do it, then it will spur the American workers (now unemployed) to go out and get the next big degree.

Ultimately the Americans will learn that the only degrees that one should get are BUSINESS degrees.

One glorious day we will all be CEO's.

(Or at least that seems to be the message from the top down).

We hold on to the shining exceptions to maintain the illusion that we, too, are headed in that direction.

Are you saying that we can't be a nation of 300 million billionaires?

But the heart of the matter is that social mobility is mostly a myth.

It wasn't in the 1950's when the income gap was much lower. But social mobility is still a great "selling point" to keep the stagnating middle class quiet.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Comrade Obama will have everyone working at Chinese wages after 4 more years. Well, except for the Politburo. After 4 years of Obama, the rich are richer, and the poor are poorer.

 

[Quincunx]

If properly phrased it should be....others are NOT entitled to your success.

Actually I strenuously disagree with that. I am glad that the money I paid into social security from my jobs in the 1990's helped pay for the college education of Paul Ryan.

I'm not being facetious here. I'm actually glad that the money I paid in, when I literally was barely scraping by as a grad student or a low paid chem tech in New York, helped someone else.

My "success" built on the fact that I had already gotten 2 college degrees but just in things that didn't pay a whole lot in the job market at the time, was something I am proud to have shared with people less fortunate than myself, people like Paul Ryan.

Sure in the early 90's I was living in a basement apartment working two jobs barely able to keep it together while Paul was going to college paid for by social security money, and earlier in the late 80's I was a grubby grad student occasionally without electricity because I couldn't afford to pay my electricity bills, but the jobs I had, I paid my SS tax and I know that I did it to help make this country a better place.

My success helped make Paul's success.

And now, years later, I have more education than most Americans and I work for a major corporation and my income has stagnated. I went 5 years with only about 2% of pay raise, one year with mandatory pay cut during the recession, and now little hope of ever really "making it" big, but I survive. I live comfortably.

Do I need more? Nah! I am fine where I'm at. I'm another donor to the greater good and maybe, just maybe, my success will help fund other people like Paul Ryan to become successful too. It's part of why I'm proud to be an American.