We are killed because we are Christians

[Cris413]

A former client of mine was an avid collector. Visiting his home was like visiting a museum...

He showed me a medieval battle ax with a cross in the blade.

He explained that crosses were often put in the ax...with the premise being it would be the last thing the enemy would see before dying and perhaps in that moment convert to Christianity...

I'm thinkin'...if I were the enemy on the receiving end of that ax...I wouldn't be thinking it was my salvation...

 

[Cris413]

I've been thinking a good deal about this thread and two things keep coming to mind:

Mat 24:9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.
Mat 24:11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.
Mat 24:13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.


And:

Dan 3:16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego answered and said to the king, "O Nebuchadnezzar, we have no need to answer you in this matter.
Dan 3:17 If that is the case, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and He will deliver us from your hand, O king.
Dan 3:18 But if not, let it be known to you, O king, that we do not serve your gods, nor will we worship the gold image which you have set up."

Again...it all comes down to belief and trust and understanding that our lives here are nothing compared to our love for God and eternity with our Lord we serve.

 

[Nadiine]

I've been thinking a good deal about this thread and two things keep coming to mind:

Mat 24:9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.
Mat 24:11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.
Mat 24:13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.


And:

Dan 3:16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego answered and said to the king, "O Nebuchadnezzar, we have no need to answer you in this matter.
Dan 3:17 If that is the case, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and He will deliver us from your hand, O king.
Dan 3:18 But if not, let it be known to you, O king, that we do not serve your gods, nor will we worship the gold image which you have set up."

Again...it all comes down to belief and trust and understanding that our lives here are nothing compared to our love for God and eternity with our Lord we serve.

In times of persecution, I think people can hide people or go underground, even use violence to protect if necessary; the whole offensive military stuff & hunting down your enemy doesn't fly. It really can't even be organized in the condition the church finds itself in (in the last days) with apostacy & deception going on...

I just can't see it.

 

[Nadiine]

A former client of mine was an avid collector. Visiting his home was like visiting a museum...

He showed me a medieval battle ax with a cross in the blade.

He explained that crosses were often put in the ax...with the premise being it would be the last thing the enemy would see before dying and perhaps in that moment convert to Christianity...

I'm thinkin'...if I were the enemy on the receiving end of that ax...I wouldn't be thinking it was my salvation...

 

[MrJim]

Mr.Jim
might look a little like this.
I am not saying we should go back to having armed knights and soforth, but it was around for a while and it worked ok. but this was pre-nationstate and things worked a little differantly then

Now I would consider this a negative image~though I do like movies with lots of horses & swords The era of the romantic sword-wielding Christian knight could be looked upon as a darker age of the Christian Church...the first sword-wielding Christian disciple was severely rebuked by the Lord...

Mt 26:51 –Mt 26:52 KJV
And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest’s, and smote off his ear. Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

I think of the story of how St Francis met with the "enemy" muslim leader, crossing the battle lines~he didn't go with an armed escort yet God's providence gave him the protection he needed..the sort of faith not secured by a gun barrel or sword's edge...

 

[Cris413]

In times of persecution, I think people can hide people or go underground, even use violence to protect if necessary; the whole offensive military stuff & hunting down your enemy doesn't fly. It really can't even be organized in the condition the church finds itself in (in the last days) with apostacy & deception going on...

I just can't see it.

Scripture is pretty clear on these things...what is to come and how we are to handle things...


Mat 10:13 If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.
Mat 10:14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.
Mat 10:23 When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
Mat 10:24 "A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master.
Mat 10:25 It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher, and a servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more will they call those of his household!

Mat 10:26 Therefore do not fear them. For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known.


Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Mat 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father's will.
Mat 10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
Mat 10:31 Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

Matthew Chapter 10 is a good study...I've chosen a few verses...it was hard not to post the whole chapter...

It's interesting...Matthew 10 goes on to teach Christ brings division:

Mat 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.
Mat 10:35 For I have come to "set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law';
Mat 10:36 and "a man's enemies will be those of his own household.'
Mat 10:37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.


Does this mean we are to take the sword (literally) to the members of our household that are against Him? I mean...if we are to apply the logic of a Christian military against those who are against God...would that not also apply to our neighbors, friends and family who oppose God?

Mat 10:38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.

I think here we need to understand what the cross represents. Jesus isn't talking about a banner of the cross waving into a flesh and blood battle...

The cross was a symbol of prosecution (and/or persecution) and death in those times...it would be like Jesus saying today...pick up your lethal injection...or electric chair and follow after Him.


Mat 10:39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.

Some might consider this understanding "theological gibberish" or some "super spiritualization" leading to denile.... but I think Scripture is quite clear...and I'll take what Scripture teaches over a history lesson any day.

Interesting how angry some can get regarding the truth of Scripture...