We Agnostics.

[Holy Roller]

From the guys who created Alcoholics Anonymous.
I happen to think it's one of the most poignant contemporary treatments on the Spirit I have read in a while.
Reading it will take around five minutes.
It's about some Atheists and agnostics who had a sort of spiritual awakening that brought them close to the L-rd. It's significant, because the men who wrote it were no different than some of the skeptics here, or the Atheists over at richarddawkins forum.

You may drift away, but reassert your attention back around page 51-52 or so.

Read it patiently and report back with your opinions and ideas!

 

[Bombila]

Guess what, HR? Where I live there are AA groups who don't insist on that Higher Power business, although anyone who is a theist is encouraged to use that as an aid. I have two atheist friends who have been alcohol free for 17 and 25 years through the support, comradeship, mentoring that they derived from their AA group - no brainwashing required.

 

[Washington]

From the guys who created Alcoholics Anonymous.
I happen to think it's one of the most poignant contemporary treatments on the .....................................................................................................................................................

Another misplaced OP
​

 

[Holy Roller]

Another misplaced OP
​

This is your forum. It is every skeptic's forum. The material in the link I provided is already spiritually known by the people in the Christian and Jewish forums, so it would do little good there, outside of reaffirming faiths and beliefs.

 

[Holy Roller]

Guess what, HR? Where I live there are AA groups who don't insist on that Higher Power business, although anyone who is a theist is encouraged to use that as an aid. I have two atheist friends who have been alcohol free for 17 and 25 years through the support, comradeship, mentoring that they derived from their AA group - no brainwashing required.

Cool, but I wanted your thoughts on the link. Does it make sense at all? Is it unreasonable, like some scripture is perceived to be? Etc...

 

[mercutio1562]

interesting thoughts.

 

[Washington]

This is your forum. It is every skeptic's forum. The material in the link I provided is already spiritually known by the people in the Christian and Jewish forums, so it would do little good there, outside of reaffirming faiths and beliefs.

The forum is labeled "Ethics & Morality," which I think pretty well defines its scope. My suggestion would be to put it in the "Ministry-General Apologetics" forum HERE

 

[JGG]

I can't help but think that I have to be an alcoholic to relate to this. That being said, I'm thinking Placebo Effect.

 

[Rauffenburg]

Cool, but I wanted your thoughts on the link. Does it make sense at all? Is it unreasonable, like some scripture is perceived to be? Etc...

Yes it makes sense. But it is not necessary that one interprets this liberating experience as perception of a power greater than oneself or different from oneself. Nevertheless it is also not true, that this experience in itself has no dimension of truth as one might argue from a psychological point of view (as a naturalist for example may want to do).

I can't help but think that I have to be an alcoholic to relate to this. That being said, I'm thinking Placebo Effect.

It is actually not about alcoholism. Alcoholism is just a particular case.

 

[Axioma]

Does Alcoholics Anonymous actually work? I've heard their rate of success is about the same as just trying it solo, and at least that way you don't get converted to whatever brand of submission they happen to be preaching.

 

[cantata]

I've had highly formative quasi-spiritual experiences in my life that I don't feel the need to attribute to a deity.

Good for the ex-alcoholics and all that, but the important thing is to realise that life can be rewarding without alcohol. You don't need Jesus to grasp that. Any path to enlightenment will do.

 

[Bombila]

Does Alcoholics Anonymous actually work? I've heard their rate of success is about the same as just trying it solo, and at least that way you don't get converted to whatever brand of submission they happen to be preaching.

I think it is a very hit-and-miss success rate. I've certainly heard that some AA groups are useless. Because I live in a rural area, everyone ends up supporting whatever community services are around, and since there is an AA group here and several of my friends/neighbours belonged, I've ended up volunteering at their fundraisers and gotten to know the dozen or so members. I would say about half have succeeded in beating alcoholism in their lives, those with more than ten years not drinking. Others sporadically binge, but it could be a couple years between sprees. A few keep coming but are not very successful.

 

[JGG]

It is actually not about alcoholism. Alcoholism is just a particular case.

My mistake. It's just that the theme continuing among the pages recommended by the OP is made with this kind of statement:

"We were having trouble with personal relationships, we couldn’t control our emotional natures, we were a prey to misery and depression, we couldn’t make a living, we had a feeling of uselessness, we were full of fear, we were unhappy, we couldn’t seem to be of real help to other people"

or this one:

"When we became alcoholics, crushed by a self-imposed crises we could not postpone or evade, we had to fearlessly face the proposition that either God is everything or else He is nothing. God either is or He isn’t."

Also seeing as the entire book is centered on stories about alocholics, one can forgive such a leap, but it in the least seems to be directed at people in some sort of chronic mentally depressed state, or some desperate situation.

All things considered, I just can't relate.

 

[Fin12]

From the guys who created Alcoholics Anonymous.
I happen to think it's one of the most poignant contemporary treatments on the Spirit I have read in a while.
Reading it will take around five minutes.
It's about some Atheists and agnostics who had a sort of spiritual awakening that brought them close to the L-rd. It's significant, because the men who wrote it were no different than some of the skeptics here, or the Atheists over at richarddawkins forum.

You may drift away, but reassert your attention back around page 51-52 or so.

Read it patiently and report back with your opinions and ideas!

Placebo, people who are emotionally turmoiled willl often look for something like this, trauma induces a huge rush of emotion, which can result in placebo etc.

A perfect demonstration....
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DTgHkuE9Q_8&feature=related

Human emotion does not equal belief. You need to first have reason.