Wayne Bent / Michael Travesser

[RC_NewProtestants]

It is typical of those who leave something behind to be the harshest critics, which means we have to take what they say with more then a grain of salt. Now I can find just as many snipets from EGW that would make her look perfectly orthodox. And we have all seen how some people cherry pick the Bible to produce whatever they like. So the question is for the Bible or EGW is the cherry picked portions the overriding implication of the whole. It usually is not.

I am in total agreement that the last generation perfection stuff will either split the Adventist Church or cause an exodus of all progressive Adventists. In fact I just wrote an article for Adventist Today related to that. If the Church does ignore it there will be big problems. But from the Churches perspective this stuff was huge in the 1940-50's and then rapidly declined so that people of my age who went to Academy in the 70's knew nothing about last generation perfection doctrine even though they heavily taught EGW. They may think it will run its course again who knows what those guys think.

In any case the answer is not found in subjective insinuations, as only rational and objective presentations of information have any impact on changing peoples ideas. (Actually that last sentance is only wishful thinking as many people are more swayed by subjective nonsense then anything else. It is just that those people never learned how to think in the first place, they are the mindless masses and they don't create much of value.)

 

[Byfaithalone1]

It is typical of those who leave something behind to be the harshest critics, which means we have to take what they say with more then a grain of salt.

You use the word "harsh." I don't see it that way. Since you framed your comments from the general perspective of "leaving something behind," I have a question. Would you expect any former follower of Wayne Bent to be passionate about revealing the error that the former follower had left behind? Would you conclude that, because the former follower of Wayne Bent was a "former," everything he said about Wayne Bent was either wrong or overdramatized?

Now I can find just as many snipets from EGW that would make her look perfectly orthodox.

Which would only demonstrate her inconsistency (which I readily admit is true). This inconsistency leads to confusion for many SDAs.

And we have all seen how some people cherry pick the Bible to produce whatever they like. So the question is for the Bible or EGW is the cherry picked portions the overriding implication of the whole. It usually is not.

Let's allow each reader to decide for himself. However, you've claimed that I provided no evidence and I have, in fact, provided evidence. We could go into much more detail with each quote I referenced, looking carefully at the context and considering the implications. I'll let you decide whether that would be a valuable exercise. As a starting point, I was simply providing an outline of the reasons for my assertions.

I am in total agreement that the last generation perfection stuff will either split the Adventist Church or cause an exodus of all progressive Adventists.

I see that, and I suspect that you are correct. The only way around it is for the denomination to take a clear position once and for all.

In fact I just wrote an article for Adventist Today related to that. If the Church does ignore it there will be big problems. But from the Churches perspective this stuff was huge in the 1940-50's and then rapidly declined so that people of my age who went to Academy in the 70's knew nothing about last generation perfection doctrine even though they heavily taught EGW. They may think it will run its course again who knows what those guys think.

That may have been your perspective. I went through academy in the 1980s, and it least in my experience, perfectionism was alive and well. I remember attending a seminar presented by Margaret Davis on the subject of her book What Must I Do to Inherit Eternal Life (I think that was the title; feel free to correct me if my memory has failed me).

In any case the answer is not found in subjective insinuations, as only rational and objective presentations of information have any impact on changing peoples ideas.

I see nothing irrational in what I've written. I'm sorry that you do. At the end of the day, I truly could care less which church a person attends. Rather, I am quite passionate about the gospel of salvation by grace through faith, and I am concerned about the confusing messages that still plague SDAism (and other denominations as well).

BFA

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

I wrote:
In any case the answer is not found in subjective insinuations, as only rational and objective presentations of information have any impact on changing peoples ideas.

I see nothing irrational in what I've written. I'm sorry that you do. At the end of the day, I truly could care less which church a person attends. Rather, I am quite passionate about the gospel of salvation by grace through faith, and I am concerned about the confusing messages that still plague SDAism (and other denominations as well).

BFA

An example of the subjective nonsense I referred to, you apply something which I never said about you personally. You produced your evidence after I said you didn't produce any evidence then pretend that it was there from the beginning.

I have had enough with trying to dialog with you.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

An example of the subjective nonsense I referred to, you apply something which I never said about you personally.

In the context of our discussion, it seemed to me that the phrase "subjective insinuations" was meant to apply to me. If I misunderstood, you're more than welcome to clarify. Can you share with us the specific "subjective insinuations" about which you are concerned? If such "subjective insinuations" have nothing to do with the subject of our discussion, why did you bring it up?

You produced your evidence after I said you didn't produce any evidence then pretend that it was there from the beginning.

Not true. From my very first post in this thread, I was quite specific about my concerns. When you asked for more information about my concerns, I provided it. There is even more that I could say on the subject, but I sense that you've already tuned out. So be it . . . .

I have had enough with trying to dialog with you.

Be well. You're always free to come and go as you wish. God willing, I'll still be here if you change your mind.

BFA