Wave of looting shutters stores, spreads fear in Venezuela

[Rion]

Wave of looting shutters stores, spreads fear in Venezuela

Wave of looting shutters stores, spreads fear in Venezuela | Reuters

“Small-scale protests will be numerous and increasingly violent; any of these protests could contain the spark to serious unrest,” said consultancy Teneo Intelligence in a note to clients about the year ahead in Venezuela.

In an effort to curb voter anger over inflation, the government agency tasked with ensuring “fair prices” ordered some 200 supermarkets to slash their rates this month, triggering frenetic buying.

Roadside lootings have also scared truck drivers, disrupting the food distribution chain that is traditionally slower anyway in January because of holidays.

For Mery Cacua, manager of La Gran Parada, a supermarket chain in Tachira’s state capital San Cristobal, it has become too much to handle.

“We’re closing in two weeks. There’s no hope anymore,” said Cacua, adding she and her siblings had not yet mustered the strength to break the news to their 87-year-old father, who founded the business 60 years ago.

More pain and suffering in Sandersland.

 

[brinny]

Wave of looting shutters stores, spreads fear in Venezuela

Wave of looting shutters stores, spreads fear in Venezuela | Reuters

“Small-scale protests will be numerous and increasingly violent; any of these protests could contain the spark to serious unrest,” said consultancy Teneo Intelligence in a note to clients about the year ahead in Venezuela.

In an effort to curb voter anger over inflation, the government agency tasked with ensuring “fair prices” ordered some 200 supermarkets to slash their rates this month, triggering frenetic buying.

Roadside lootings have also scared truck drivers, disrupting the food distribution chain that is traditionally slower anyway in January because of holidays.

For Mery Cacua, manager of La Gran Parada, a supermarket chain in Tachira’s state capital San Cristobal, it has become too much to handle.

“We’re closing in two weeks. There’s no hope anymore,” said Cacua, adding she and her siblings had not yet mustered the strength to break the news to their 87-year-old father, who founded the business 60 years ago.

More pain and suffering in Sandersland.

God have mercy!

Praying.

 

[Almost there]

Thing about Venezuela is that it will not just stagnate as bad. It will continue to get worse and worse and worse and, eventually, unconscionable.

Think of a small scale version of "The Road Warrior" but with more trees.

 

[super animator]

What infuriates me is the "No true Scotsman" fallacy regarding it's government when it comes to socialism.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

I'm sure Sean Penn will fly down there in his private jet any day now to help the ordinary people out.

 

[Almost there]

What infuriates me is the "No true Scotsman" fallacy regarding it's government when it comes to socialism.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I don't know how anybody can watch Prager U's drivel. Not once does she even explain what Venezuela's version of socialism is or how its system broke down. Instead, she engages in some simple-minded fear-mongering and makes jokes about singing on tv.

This "university" would've done better to explain the dangers with price controls, resource curse, and reliance upon a single commodity (none of which are exclusive to socialist economies).

 

[Almost there]

I don't know how anybody can watch Prager U's drivel. Not once does she even explain what Venezuela's version of socialism is or how its system broke down. Instead, she engages in some simple-minded fear-mongering and makes jokes about singing on tv.

This "university" would've done better to explain the dangers with price controls, resource curse, and reliance upon a single commodity (none of which are exclusive to socialist economies).

When you choose to make a video about something like this and limit it to five minutes, you have to choose what to include. Heck, the news networks have been doing this with their stories since the 30's.

You should create your own video. But your "no true Scotsman" argument is duly noted.

You should rent the classic Robin Williams film, Moscow on the Hudson. The "coffee line" part is interesting.

 

[iluvatar5150]

When you choose to make a video about something like this and limit it to five minutes, you have to choose what to include.

Then they chose poorly, going with nonsense and fear-mongering instead of facts. (This assumes their motivation is education and not profit. If their motivation is profit, well.... maybe they chose wisely) The three factors I described are pretty simple concepts, but they don't fit into the sort of simple-minded boogeyman narrative that Prager wanted to push.

But your "no true Scotsman" argument is duly noted.

Read it again - I gave no "no true scotsman" argument. I never said that Venezuela wasn't socialist. I said that some of the factors contributing to their downfall weren't exclusive to socialism. They're not required by socialism, either.

 

[Almost there]

Then they chose poorly, going with nonsense and fear-mongering instead of facts. (This assumes their motivation is education and not profit. If their motivation is profit, well.... maybe they chose wisely) The three factors I described are pretty simple concepts, but they don't fit into the sort of simple-minded boogeyman narrative that Prager wanted to push.



Read it again - I gave no "no true scotsman" argument. I never said that Venezuela wasn't socialist. I said that some of the factors contributing to their downfall weren't exclusive to socialism. They're not required by socialism, either.

You argued their "version" of socialism. That was why I suggested "Moscow on the Hudson". Socialism is socialism. It's not a version thing. It is a "degree" thing. e.g. Social Security, medicare, medicaid, snap, etc. are all socialism. So are roads.

 

[iluvatar5150]

You argued their "version" of socialism. That was why I suggested "Moscow on the Hudson". Socialism is socialism. It's not a version thing. It is a "degree" thing. e.g. Social Security, medicare, medicaid, snap, etc. are all socialism. So are roads.

What are you talking about?

Socialism is (broadly speaking) government ownership of the means of production.

Price controls are just that - government setting of prices, separately from who owns it. State governments don't typically own utilities, but they do often set price caps. Same thing for caps on prescription drug prices. Price controls are neither required by socialism nor are they exclusive to it.

Resource curse is a phenomenon whereby having an economy based heavily on extraction of natural resources (which are typically controlled by a small number of firms) tends to skew the politics and power dynamics in a nation in a way that makes it more autocratic. This is separate from socialism.

Heavy reliance on a single commodity or industry contributes to higher economic volatility. Venezuela's economy was effectively pegged to the price of oil. When oil collapsed, so did their economy. This is separate from their socialism.

 

[FireDragon76]

Not to mention, there are different varieties of governance under what is broadly called "socialism" in the US. For instance, Scandinavian countries have tended to be guided by social democracy which is sometimes mistakenly called "socialism".

 

[Almost there]

What are you talking about?

Socialism is (broadly speaking) government ownership of the means of production.

Price controls are just that - government setting of prices, separately from who owns it. State governments don't typically own utilities, but they do often set price caps. Same thing for caps on prescription drug prices. Price controls are neither required by socialism nor are they exclusive to it.

Resource curse is a phenomenon whereby having an economy based heavily on extraction of natural resources (which are typically controlled by a small number of firms) tends to skew the politics and power dynamics in a nation in a way that makes it more autocratic. This is separate from socialism.

Heavy reliance on a single commodity or industry contributes to higher economic volatility. Venezuela's economy was effectively pegged to the price of oil. When oil collapsed, so did their economy. This is separate from their socialism.

I don't have the time to get into a discussion of what socialism is so I'll leave it at your post above.

 

[SummerMadness]

I don't have the time to get into a discussion of what socialism is so I'll leave it at your post above.

Or you could actually engage in a discussion with his direct and well-supported post.

 

[Almost there]

Or you could actually engage in a discussion with his direct and well-supported post.

Yes I could. If I had the time.
What the heck. From Meriam webster:
: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

That would include my list as well as his.

And we all know how it's worked out everywhere it's tried.

 

[SummerMadness]

Yes I could. If I had the time.
What the heck. From Meriam webster:
: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

That would include my list as well as his.

And we all know how it's worked out everywhere it's tried.

I believe in mixed economies, so I argue that tilting an economy too much toward socialism or capitalism leads to instability, but I know that attitude is foreign to the people that always speak of the evils of capitalism or horrors of socialism.

 

[Almost there]

I believe in mixed economies, so I argue that tilting an economy too much toward socialism or capitalism leads to instability, but I know that attitude is foreign to the people that always speak of the evils of capitalism or horrors of socialism.

Actually, I agree with you. I think some fascism is good (e.g. privately owned but publicly regulated power companies), and some socialism (e.g. roads) is good.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

I don't know how anybody can watch Prager U's drivel. Not once does she even explain what Venezuela's version of socialism is or how its system broke down. Instead, she engages in some simple-minded fear-mongering and makes jokes about singing on tv.

You've got to admit - the "socialism is like a drug" bit was worth a laugh

 

[ThatRobGuy]

More pain and suffering in Sandersland.

...being that Sanders advocates the Nordic Model (aka Social Democrat) (See: Iceland, Finland, Norway, Denmark, and Switzerland), your comment doesn't apply.

Venezuela has become a real life example reductio ad absurdum that right-wing folks use to criticize anything left of center.

If you have any evidence of
A) Sanders advocating a Venezuelan-style government
B) These sorts of things happening in 5 countries I've listed

...then there might be something to talk about.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Yes I could. If I had the time.

You made at least 11 subsequent posts today.