Water Baptism

[patdee]

A Christian <staff edit> said the following, nearing the end of his article titled, "Why isnt God using me?.....

.......And if you're wondering yes, I've been baptised in water and the holy spirit.....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

My thoughts ran deep when I read this. It is obvious that my Christian brother who posted that, believes as literally billions of Christians over 2,000 yrs have believed. It is also obvious that belief was taken from words that Jesus spoke to Nicodemus (A Jewish scholar) concerning being "born again":

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

For almost 70 yrs I believed that verse to be 100% true. But it is NOT. The word "and" in that verse should NOT have been included in that verse when it was translated. Take the word "and" out of their and then read the verse.

There is ONLY one Baptism. Just like Savior, Jesus, God, one Gospel, etc.

The reason the verse is in error is: IF it was true then John the Baptist would have been incorrect when He said,

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with (liquid) water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire (fire means power from God):

Notice closely the last part of what John is quoted as saying. Note he did NOT say there were two "baptisms". NO he was saying that water baptism was going to END when Jesus died. Think about it and reread John's words. He is saying that the baptism by the "holy spirit" will replace forever, the water baptism that he was doing-even his baptism of Jesus; BECAUSE once Jesus paid the entire price, liquid water baptism will NEVER be required once Jesus is sacrificed on the cross.

This is the reason that Jesus said,

John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again (liquid water baptism): John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water (of the holy spirit) that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Jesus was saying the SAME thing John the Baptist was saying; only in a different way. Now go back and reread John 3:5 and that word "and" is simply NOT suppose to be there.

Now I know, I know full well that I am going to be flamed from here to eternity for this; but so be it.

I was baptized in water 3 times in my youth and later, beginning at birth through "Christening" at age 6. Then "sprinkled" and lastly: immersed completely in water in a Baptist church. This was over a span of 26 yrs.

Sadly, ALL of these "baptisms" were totally UN necessary. Oh indeed yes. The ONLY baptism that counts is the baptism of the Holy Spirit of Jesus. ALL others are moot. Believe it or not. Before you flame, please consider the following real life scenarios:

1. An avowed atheist accepts Jesus on his dying bed and dies immediately. HOW did he get saved by being baptized in water?

2. A soldier in a foxhole accepts Jesus. One second later a rocket propelled grenade blows his head off. How did he get baptized in liquid water?

3. A person accepts Jesus in a church and walks forward. The preacher greets him and then tells him he will be baptized the next Sunday in the baptismal service. The person upon leaving church is hit by a car and he is killed. HOW did that person get baptized in water?

Etc, etc, and etc!

And last but not least:

4. HOW did the thief on a cross next to Jesus; who accepted Jesus: get saved by being baptized in water? Huh?

Think about it.

In any case, may Jesus richly bless you yours always.

 

[Zayin7]

A Christian by the name of "Far Side Of the Moon". said the following, nearing the end of his article titled, "Why isnt God using me?.....

.......And if you're wondering yes, I've been baptised in water and the holy spirit.....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

My thoughts ran deep when I read this. It is obvious that my Christian brother who posted that, believes as literally billions of Christians over 2,000 yrs have believed. It is also obvious that belief was taken from words that Jesus spoke to Nicodemus (A Jewish scholar) concerning being "born again":

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

For almost 70 yrs I believed that verse to be 100% true. But it is NOT. The word "and" in that verse should NOT have been included in that verse when it was translated. Take the word "and" out of their and then read the verse.

There is ONLY one Baptism. Just like Savior, Jesus, God, one Gospel, etc.

The reason the verse is in error is: IF it was true then John the Baptist would have been incorrect when He said,

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with (liquid) water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire (fire means power from God):

Notice closely the last part of what John is quoted as saying. Note he did NOT say there were two "baptisms". NO he was saying that water baptism was going to END when Jesus died. Think about it and reread John's words. He is saying that the baptism by the "holy spirit" will replace forever, the water baptism that he was doing-even his baptism of Jesus; BECAUSE once Jesus paid the entire price, liquid water baptism will NEVER be required once Jesus is sacrificed on the cross.

This is the reason that Jesus said,

John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again (liquid water baptism): John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water (of the holy spirit) that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Jesus was saying the SAME thing John the Baptist was saying; only in a different way. Now go back and reread John 3:5 and that word "and" is simply NOT suppose to be there.

Now I know, I know full well that I am going to be flamed from here to eternity for this; but so be it.

I was baptized in water 3 times in my youth and later, beginning at birth through "Christening" at age 6. Then "sprinkled" and lastly: immersed completely in water in a Baptist church. This was over a span of 26 yrs.

Sadly, ALL of these "baptisms" were totally UN necessary. Oh indeed yes. The ONLY baptism that counts is the baptism of the Holy Spirit of Jesus. ALL others are moot. Believe it or not. Before you flame, please consider the following real life scenarios:

1. An avowed atheist accepts Jesus on his dying bed and dies immediately. HOW did he get saved by being baptized in water?

2. A soldier in a foxhole accepts Jesus. One second later a rocket propelled grenade blows his head off. How did he get baptized in liquid water?

3. A person accepts Jesus in a church and walks forward. The preacher greets him and then tells him he will be baptized the next Sunday in the baptismal service. The person upon leaving church is hit by a car and he is killed. HOW did that person get baptized in water?

Etc, etc, and etc!

And last but not least:

4. HOW did the thief on a cross next to Jesus; who accepted Jesus: get saved by being baptized in water? Huh?

Think about it.

In any case, may Jesus richly bless you yours always.

Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

and in this one verse your entire premise is demolished .
it is disobedience to know to be baptized in water and not do so !

The baptism of the holy Spirit is the spiritual baptism unto life and one must die in Christ before one can be resurrected in Christ .

 

[redleghunter]

A Christian by the name of "Far Side Of the Moon". said the following, nearing the end of his article titled, "Why isnt God using me?.....

.......And if you're wondering yes, I've been baptised in water and the holy spirit.....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

My thoughts ran deep when I read this. It is obvious that my Christian brother who posted that, believes as literally billions of Christians over 2,000 yrs have believed. It is also obvious that belief was taken from words that Jesus spoke to Nicodemus (A Jewish scholar) concerning being "born again":

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

For almost 70 yrs I believed that verse to be 100% true. But it is NOT. The word "and" in that verse should NOT have been included in that verse when it was translated. Take the word "and" out of their and then read the verse.

There is ONLY one Baptism. Just like Savior, Jesus, God, one Gospel, etc.

The reason the verse is in error is: IF it was true then John the Baptist would have been incorrect when He said,

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with (liquid) water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire (fire means power from God):

Notice closely the last part of what John is quoted as saying. Note he did NOT say there were two "baptisms". NO he was saying that water baptism was going to END when Jesus died. Think about it and reread John's words. He is saying that the baptism by the "holy spirit" will replace forever, the water baptism that he was doing-even his baptism of Jesus; BECAUSE once Jesus paid the entire price, liquid water baptism will NEVER be required once Jesus is sacrificed on the cross.

This is the reason that Jesus said,

John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again (liquid water baptism): John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water (of the holy spirit) that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Jesus was saying the SAME thing John the Baptist was saying; only in a different way. Now go back and reread John 3:5 and that word "and" is simply NOT suppose to be there.

Now I know, I know full well that I am going to be flamed from here to eternity for this; but so be it.

I was baptized in water 3 times in my youth and later, beginning at birth through "Christening" at age 6. Then "sprinkled" and lastly: immersed completely in water in a Baptist church. This was over a span of 26 yrs.

Sadly, ALL of these "baptisms" were totally UN necessary. Oh indeed yes. The ONLY baptism that counts is the baptism of the Holy Spirit of Jesus. ALL others are moot. Believe it or not. Before you flame, please consider the following real life scenarios:

1. An avowed atheist accepts Jesus on his dying bed and dies immediately. HOW did he get saved by being baptized in water?

2. A soldier in a foxhole accepts Jesus. One second later a rocket propelled grenade blows his head off. How did he get baptized in liquid water?

3. A person accepts Jesus in a church and walks forward. The preacher greets him and then tells him he will be baptized the next Sunday in the baptismal service. The person upon leaving church is hit by a car and he is killed. HOW did that person get baptized in water?

Etc, etc, and etc!

And last but not least:

4. HOW did the thief on a cross next to Jesus; who accepted Jesus: get saved by being baptized in water? Huh?

Think about it.

In any case, may Jesus richly bless you yours always.

Thanks for yet another water baptism thread.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

A Christian by the name of "Far Side Of the Moon". said the following, nearing the end of his article titled, "Why isnt God using me?.....

.......And if you're wondering yes, I've been baptised in water and the holy spirit.....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

My thoughts ran deep when I read this. It is obvious that my Christian brother who posted that, believes as literally billions of Christians over 2,000 yrs have believed. It is also obvious that belief was taken from words that Jesus spoke to Nicodemus (A Jewish scholar) concerning being "born again":

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

For almost 70 yrs I believed that verse to be 100% true. But it is NOT. The word "and" in that verse should NOT have been included in that verse when it was translated. Take the word "and" out of their and then read the verse.

There is ONLY one Baptism. Just like Savior, Jesus, God, one Gospel, etc.

The reason the verse is in error is: IF it was true then John the Baptist would have been incorrect when He said,

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with (liquid) water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire (fire means power from God):

Notice closely the last part of what John is quoted as saying. Note he did NOT say there were two "baptisms". NO he was saying that water baptism was going to END when Jesus died. Think about it and reread John's words. He is saying that the baptism by the "holy spirit" will replace forever, the water baptism that he was doing-even his baptism of Jesus; BECAUSE once Jesus paid the entire price, liquid water baptism will NEVER be required once Jesus is sacrificed on the cross.

This is the reason that Jesus said,

John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again (liquid water baptism): John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water (of the holy spirit) that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Jesus was saying the SAME thing John the Baptist was saying; only in a different way. Now go back and reread John 3:5 and that word "and" is simply NOT suppose to be there.

Now I know, I know full well that I am going to be flamed from here to eternity for this; but so be it.

I was baptized in water 3 times in my youth and later, beginning at birth through "Christening" at age 6. Then "sprinkled" and lastly: immersed completely in water in a Baptist church. This was over a span of 26 yrs.

Sadly, ALL of these "baptisms" were totally UN necessary. Oh indeed yes. The ONLY baptism that counts is the baptism of the Holy Spirit of Jesus. ALL others are moot. Believe it or not. Before you flame, please consider the following real life scenarios:

1. An avowed atheist accepts Jesus on his dying bed and dies immediately. HOW did he get saved by being baptized in water?

2. A soldier in a foxhole accepts Jesus. One second later a rocket propelled grenade blows his head off. How did he get baptized in liquid water?

3. A person accepts Jesus in a church and walks forward. The preacher greets him and then tells him he will be baptized the next Sunday in the baptismal service. The person upon leaving church is hit by a car and he is killed. HOW did that person get baptized in water?

Etc, etc, and etc!

And last but not least:

4. HOW did the thief on a cross next to Jesus; who accepted Jesus: get saved by being baptized in water? Huh?

Think about it.

In any case, may Jesus richly bless you yours always.

YOu said so much i'm not gonna address it all but i'll address portions.


4. HOW did the thief on a cross next to Jesus; who accepted Jesus: get saved by being baptized in water? Huh?

Think about it.

My Response: JESUS was in the flesh there... he isn't in the flesh anymore.. so he can't just walk up to us and give us salvation. There's nothing to think about here. IF the mighty God in the flesh... or if you're a trinitarian the one who sits on the right hand... in the flesh... gives someone salvation they get it. Also not to mention pentecost didn't happen yet, after pentecost that's really when it becomes a mandate to be baptized and get the holy ghost and such, that's when the prophecy of Joel comes to pass.



ohn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

For almost 70 yrs I believed that verse to be 100% true. But it is NOT. The word "and" in that verse should NOT have been included in that verse when it was translated. Take the word "and" out of their and then read the verse.


here is ONLY one Baptism. Just like Savior, Jesus, God, one Gospel, etc.

The reason the verse is in error is: IF it was true then John the Baptist would have been incorrect when He said,

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with (liquid) water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire (fire means power from God):

Notice closely the last part of what John is quoted as saying. Note he did NOT say there were two "baptisms". NO he was saying that water baptism was going to END when Jesus died. Think about it and reread John's words. He is saying that the baptism by the "holy spirit" will replace forever, the water baptism that he was doing-even his baptism of Jesus; BECAUSE once Jesus paid the entire price, liquid water baptism will NEVER be required once Jesus is sacrificed on the cross.

My Response: Then explain acts 2:38, which is mentioned after JESUS died on the cross as instructions to be followed.

John was incorrect in his baptism tbh, reasons why vary but it is why this text is here. John baptized them in father,son,holy ghost informing them that after though another greater would come whose name they should be baptized in. Maybe he didn't know the name yet so baptized them that way until name was known tbh..idk. All we know is the bible indicates JESUS name is the correct way.

Acts 19King James Version (KJV)
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


There's also this that the "and" that you claim doesn't belong does belong though.


Acts 8:14-17King James Version (KJV)
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost





John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again (liquid water baptism): John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water (of the holy spirit) that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.


My Response: He was just talking about regular water here even the women's responses make this obvious.... he wasn't referring to water baptism... you're over thinking this verse. And when he says whosoever drink of this water he's talking about himself his spirit.


1. An avowed atheist accepts Jesus on his dying bed and dies immediately. HOW did he get saved by being baptized in water?

2. A soldier in a foxhole accepts Jesus. One second later a rocket propelled grenade blows his head off. How did he get baptized in liquid water?

3. A person accepts Jesus in a church and walks forward. The preacher greets him and then tells him he will be baptized the next Sunday in the baptismal service. The person upon leaving church is hit by a car and he is killed. HOW did that person get baptized in water?


My Response: these scenarios aren't the best... the third one I would like a real world example of this, never heard of this happening straight up. The 2nd one who's to say he didn't accept for selfish reasons just to escape the fox hole rather then because he believed, he was just you could say utilizing every "method" he could think of out of desperation. The first one is possible though I mean people get the holy ghost and then die not long after tbh, if they accept the holy ghost yeah. Water baptism I admit isn't as you could say vital as holy ghost in some ways, it simply removes sins your born with and help you walk better in christ as a fully new creature without sin along with the holy ghost that prevents you from sinning and again and again and opens up spiritual gifts (which seems more important to use)...but if you're about to die... seems like you're not gonna walk long anyway. Then again you could argue they had time to pursue God before death.... so maybe God will send them to hell for not being baptized and such.

You can see why though it's not good to utilize scenarios though that aren't clear right? Or use them at all? They can be confusing.

 

[tulc]

I'm curious why this is in a fora about current news and events? Shouldn't it be in one about doctrine or something?
tulc(is honestly wondering)

 

[redleghunter]

I'm curious why this is in a fora about current news and events? Shouldn't it be in one about doctrine or something?
tulc(is honestly wondering)

I agree.

 

[tulc]

I agree.

and a right back at you bro!
tulc(is having a very good night!)

 

[AvgJoe]

My thoughts ran deep when I read this. It is obvious that my Christian brother who posted that, believes as literally billions of Christians over 2,000 yrs have believed. It is also obvious that belief was taken from words that Jesus spoke to Nicodemus (A Jewish scholar) concerning being "born again":

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

For almost 70 yrs I believed that verse to be 100% true. But it is NOT. The word "and" in that verse should NOT have been included in that verse when it was translated. Take the word "and" out of there and then read the verse.

There is ONLY one Baptism. Just like One Savior, One Jesus who IS God and One Gospel, etc.

The reason the verse is in error is: IF it was true then John the Baptist would have been incorrect when He said,

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with (liquid) water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire (fire means power from God):

Notice closely the last part of what John is quoted as saying. Note he did NOT say there were two "baptisms". NO he was saying that water baptism was going to END when Jesus died. Think about it and reread John's words. He is saying that the baptism by the "holy spirit" will replace forever, the water baptism that he was doing-which includes even his baptism of Jesus; BECAUSE once Jesus paid the entire price, liquid water baptism will NEVER be required.

The word 'and' is there in the Greek text~~~> John 3:5 Parallel Greek Texts and John 3:5 Interlinear: Jesus answered, 'Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God; . The Greek word is 'kai' and means~~~> Strong's Greek: 2532. καί (kai) -- and, even, also .

If what you say is true, then why did Jesus say to baptize disciples? Matthew 28:18-20,

18) And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19) Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20) teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.​

The word baptizing has the regular meaning of submersion in water~~~> Strong's Greek: 907. βαπτίζω (baptizó) -- to dip, sink .

This is the reason that Jesus said,

John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again (liquid water baptism): John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water (of the holy spirit) that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Jesus was saying the SAME thing John the Baptist was saying; only in a different way. Now go back and reread John 3:5 and that word "and" is simply NOT suppose to be there.

That first phrase, "Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again" is not referring to liquid water baptism. It is referring to the drinking water from the well, in front of which, they were standing and drawing water from.

John 4:7-14
7) A woman of Samaria came to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give Me a drink.” 8) For His disciples had gone away into the city to buy food. 9) Then the woman of Samaria said to Him, “How is it that You, being a Jew, ask a drink from me, a Samaritan woman?” For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans. 10) Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.” 11) The woman said to Him, “Sir, You have nothing to draw with, and the well is deep. Where then do You get that living water? 12) Are You greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well, and drank from it himself, as well as his sons and his livestock?” 13) Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14) but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”​

Now I know, I know full well that I am going to be flamed from here to eternity for this; but so be it. I know also that Peter and others continued the practice of liquid water baptism. As millions of preachers ever since. Notwithstanding I believe they were dead wrong. I know, I know and flame on if you wish. I will still hold to the belief that liquid water baptism died on the cross. If you are interested further please follow along:

I was baptized in water 3 times in my youth and later, beginning at birth through "christening" at age 6 called "sprinkling" and lastly: immersed completely in water in a Baptist church. This was over a span of 26 yrs.

Not flaming, just correcting error.

Sadly, ALL of these "baptisms" were totally UN necessary. Oh indeed yes. The ONLY baptism (once Jesus died) that counts is the baptism of the Holy Spirit of Jesus. ALL others are moot. Believe it or not. Now before you flame, please consider the following real life scenarios:

1. An avowed atheist accepts Jesus on his dying bed and dies immediately. HOW did he get saved by being baptized in water?

2. A soldier in a foxhole accepts Jesus. One second later a rocket propelled grenade blows his head off. How did he get baptized in liquid water?

3. A person accepts Jesus in a church and walks forward. The preacher greets him and then tells him he will be baptized the next Sunday in the baptismal service. The saved person upon leaving church is hit by a car and he is killed. HOW did that person get baptized in water?

Etc, etc, and etc!

And last but not least:

4. HOW did the thief on a cross next to Jesus; who accepted Jesus; get saved by being baptized in water? Huh?

Think about it.

In any case, may Jesus richly bless you yours always.

Baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. Romans 6:3-4 declares, “Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.” The action of being immersed in the water illustrates dying and being buried with Christ. The action of coming out of the water pictures Christ’s resurrection.

Baptism is an important step of obedience for a Christian, but it does not save anyone. Requiring anything in addition to faith in Jesus Christ for salvation is a works-based salvation, therefore, baptism is an important step of obedience after salvation but cannot be a requirement for salvation.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

A Christian by the name of "Far Side Of the Moon". said the following, nearing the end of his article titled, "Why isnt God using me?.....

.......And if you're wondering yes, I've been baptised in water and the holy spirit.....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

My thoughts ran deep when I read this. It is obvious that my Christian brother who posted that, believes as literally billions of Christians over 2,000 yrs have believed. It is also obvious that belief was taken from words that Jesus spoke to Nicodemus (A Jewish scholar) concerning being "born again":

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

For almost 70 yrs I believed that verse to be 100% true. But it is NOT. The word "and" in that verse should NOT have been included in that verse when it was translated. Take the word "and" out of their and then read the verse.

There is ONLY one Baptism. Just like Savior, Jesus, God, one Gospel, etc.

The reason the verse is in error is: IF it was true then John the Baptist would have been incorrect when He said,

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with (liquid) water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire (fire means power from God):

Notice closely the last part of what John is quoted as saying. Note he did NOT say there were two "baptisms". NO he was saying that water baptism was going to END when Jesus died. Think about it and reread John's words. He is saying that the baptism by the "holy spirit" will replace forever, the water baptism that he was doing-even his baptism of Jesus; BECAUSE once Jesus paid the entire price, liquid water baptism will NEVER be required once Jesus is sacrificed on the cross.

This is the reason that Jesus said,

John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again (liquid water baptism): John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water (of the holy spirit) that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Jesus was saying the SAME thing John the Baptist was saying; only in a different way. Now go back and reread John 3:5 and that word "and" is simply NOT suppose to be there.

Now I know, I know full well that I am going to be flamed from here to eternity for this; but so be it.

I was baptized in water 3 times in my youth and later, beginning at birth through "Christening" at age 6. Then "sprinkled" and lastly: immersed completely in water in a Baptist church. This was over a span of 26 yrs.

Sadly, ALL of these "baptisms" were totally UN necessary. Oh indeed yes. The ONLY baptism that counts is the baptism of the Holy Spirit of Jesus. ALL others are moot. Believe it or not. Before you flame, please consider the following real life scenarios:

1. An avowed atheist accepts Jesus on his dying bed and dies immediately. HOW did he get saved by being baptized in water?

2. A soldier in a foxhole accepts Jesus. One second later a rocket propelled grenade blows his head off. How did he get baptized in liquid water?

3. A person accepts Jesus in a church and walks forward. The preacher greets him and then tells him he will be baptized the next Sunday in the baptismal service. The person upon leaving church is hit by a car and he is killed. HOW did that person get baptized in water?

Etc, etc, and etc!

And last but not least:

4. HOW did the thief on a cross next to Jesus; who accepted Jesus: get saved by being baptized in water? Huh?

Think about it.

In any case, may Jesus richly bless you yours always.

I think it's clear from the Bible that it comes down to belief. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. For by Grace are we saved, through Faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, lest any man should boast.

Yet other verses talk about water baptism. It seems that having belief is the key to receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (by "fire"), but it appears that the Bible is teaching that one who has true belief will follow in obedience to being baptized (in water). Of course, that's not always possible, so there are situations like the one you gave where people can be saved (by belief, grace through faith, etc.) but not go through a water baptism.

Still, water baptism is considered important. I can't help but think of one of the prime examples the Bible gives of a person "being saved" and that is the example of the Ethiopian Eunuch with Philip. The Eunuch is ministered to by Philip (Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God, and that by a preacher typically). The Eunuch believes and "is saved" by his belief. The Eunuch, in his true belief, says to Philip, "here is water, why can I not be baptized now?" and Philip accommodates him. This story shows that while the Eunuch is not saved by water baptism but instead by his faith, he is obedient to water baptism and Philip, who ministered to him and is guiding the eunuch as a new Christian, thought it important to accommodate that important request.

So while water is not necessary it is an important component of a Christian's salvation experience and shouldn't be taken lightly to the point of saying "oh, well, it's not necessary so don't even worry about it or think about it..." as if it's totally optional.

 

[more4less]

There are two Baptism. And baptism means Consecrated, immersion, to make Holy, to become immaculate and or cleansed. The first Baptism is done by the physical nature and the other is by the spiritual nature. The one that is done by the spirit. That it is when the spirit of God merges with our soul that will make us to have a heart like God.

Isaiah 4:4 The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire.

Jonah 4:2 He prayed to the Lord, “Isn’t this what I said, Lord, when I was still at home? That is what I tried to forestall by fleeing to Tarshish. I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity.

Acts 13:22 After removing Saul, he made David their king. God testified concerning him: ‘I have found David son of Jesse, a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.’

Exodus 32:32 But now, please forgive their sin—but if not, then blot me out of the book you have written.”

Luke 23:34 Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.

Luke 23:46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.

John 13:37 Peter asked, “Lord, why can’t I follow you now? I will lay down my life for you.”

 

[Albion]

....and yet, we read in scripture that there is ONE Lord, One Faith, and ONE BAPTISM.

 

[more4less]

....and yet, we read in scripture that there is ONE Lord, One Faith, and ONE BAPTISM.

Well, yeah... David was Baptized by water, but he never was Baptized with the spirit, until Jesus had came. And He Baptized the people

Acts 1:5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”

7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

Act 2:1 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

 

[Albion]

That's a rather long reply not to have included any reference at all to the Bible verse (Eph. 4:5) I mentioned, don't you think?

 

[Zayin7]

There are two Baptism. And baptism means Consecrated, immersion, to make Holy, to become immaculate and or cleansed. The first Baptism is done by the physical nature and the other is by the spiritual nature. The one that is done by the spirit. That it is when the spirit of God merges with our soul that will make us to have a heart like God.

Isaiah 4:4 The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire.

Jonah 4:2 He prayed to the Lord, “Isn’t this what I said, Lord, when I was still at home? That is what I tried to forestall by fleeing to Tarshish. I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity.

Acts 13:22 After removing Saul, he made David their king. God testified concerning him: ‘I have found David son of Jesse, a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.’

Exodus 32:32 But now, please forgive their sin—but if not, then blot me out of the book you have written.”

Luke 23:34 Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.

Luke 23:46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.

John 13:37 Peter asked, “Lord, why can’t I follow you now? I will lay down my life for you.”

?the word baptism doesn't mean consecrated.
It means to dip saturate soak .7just saying. Don't go throwing in meanings that aren't there .

 

[more4less]

?the word baptism doesn't mean consecrated.
It means to dip saturate soak .7just saying. Don't go throwing in meanings that aren't there .

What method did they had used to consecrate themselves. In the original text, God told Moses to have the people to consecrate themselves for three days. They were to bathe themselves and wash their clothes and not to have sexual relations for three days. They have to be Holy, Purified before the Lord. Just like in the book of Esther. Before she had came before the king, they had to put them through many preparation process. Like bathing themselves and putting on perfume and eating healthy foods in order for them to be at their very best. All through the scriptures has a hidden spiritual meaning in the background.

Exodus 19:10 And the Lord said to Moses, “Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow. Have them wash their clothes
Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

 

[more4less]

That's a rather long reply not to have included any reference at all to the Bible verse (Eph. 4:5) I mentioned, don't you think?

Jesus said to them that john had used water to Baptized them, but in a few days, That he will use the spirit of God to baptized them. And what had happened a few days after He had said that. The Holy spirit had came down upon them like a dove and they all had spoken in tongues and other things had happened as well.

 

[more4less]

Exodus 40:9 “Take the anointing oil and anoint the tabernacle and everything in it; consecrate it and all its furnishings, and it will be holy. 10 Then anoint the altar of burnt offering and all its utensils; consecrate the altar, and it will be most holy. 11 Anoint the basin and its stand and consecrate them.

12 “Bring Aaron and his sons to the entrance to the tent of meeting and wash them with water. 13 Then dress Aaron in the sacred garments, anoint him and consecrate him so he may serve me as priest.

Leviticus 8:15 Moses slaughtered the bull and took some of the blood, and with his finger he put it on all the horns of the altar to purify the altar. He poured out the rest of the blood at the base of the altar. So he consecrated it to make atonement for it.

Leviticus 11:44 I am the Lord your God; consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am holy. Do not make yourselves unclean by any creature that moves along the ground.

Leviticus 16:19 He shall sprinkle some of the blood on it with his finger seven times to cleanse it and to consecrate it from the uncleanness of the Israelites.

Hebrews 10:22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.

John 4:15 The woman said to him, “Sir, give me this water so that I won’t get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.”

Revelation 7:14 I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Acts 11:16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

 

[Albion]

Jesus said to them that john had used water to Baptized them, but in a few days, That he will use the spirit of God to baptized them. And what had happened a few days after He had said that. The Holy spirit had came down upon them like a dove and they all had spoken in tongues and other things had happened as well.

I believe I see the problem now. Christian baptism imparts the Holy Spirit. It's not that it's just the same old Jewish dedication ceremony and then the Holy Spirit comes in some separate way. Look at the description of Jesus' own baptism, for example.

 

[Panevino]

A Christian by the name of "Far Side Of the Moon". said the following, nearing the end of his article titled, "Why isnt God using me?.....

.......And if you're wondering yes, I've been baptised in water and the holy spirit.....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

My thoughts ran deep when I read this. It is obvious that my Christian brother who posted that, believes as literally billions of Christians over 2,000 yrs have believed. It is also obvious that belief was taken from words that Jesus spoke to Nicodemus (A Jewish scholar) concerning being "born again":

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

For almost 70 yrs I believed that verse to be 100% true. But it is NOT. The word "and" in that verse should NOT have been included in that verse when it was translated. Take the word "and" out of their and then read the verse.

There is ONLY one Baptism. Just like Savior, Jesus, God, one Gospel, etc.

The reason the verse is in error is: IF it was true then John the Baptist would have been incorrect when He said,

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with (liquid) water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire (fire means power from God):

Notice closely the last part of what John is quoted as saying. Note he did NOT say there were two "baptisms". NO he was saying that water baptism was going to END when Jesus died. Think about it and reread John's words. He is saying that the baptism by the "holy spirit" will replace forever, the water baptism that he was doing-even his baptism of Jesus; BECAUSE once Jesus paid the entire price, liquid water baptism will NEVER be required once Jesus is sacrificed on the cross.

This is the reason that Jesus said,

John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again (liquid water baptism): John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water (of the holy spirit) that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Jesus was saying the SAME thing John the Baptist was saying; only in a different way. Now go back and reread John 3:5 and that word "and" is simply NOT suppose to be there.

Now I know, I know full well that I am going to be flamed from here to eternity for this; but so be it.

I was baptized in water 3 times in my youth and later, beginning at birth through "Christening" at age 6. Then "sprinkled" and lastly: immersed completely in water in a Baptist church. This was over a span of 26 yrs.

Sadly, ALL of these "baptisms" were totally UN necessary. Oh indeed yes. The ONLY baptism that counts is the baptism of the Holy Spirit of Jesus. ALL others are moot. Believe it or not. Before you flame, please consider the following real life scenarios:

1. An avowed atheist accepts Jesus on his dying bed and dies immediately. HOW did he get saved by being baptized in water?

2. A soldier in a foxhole accepts Jesus. One second later a rocket propelled grenade blows his head off. How did he get baptized in liquid water?

3. A person accepts Jesus in a church and walks forward. The preacher greets him and then tells him he will be baptized the next Sunday in the baptismal service. The person upon leaving church is hit by a car and he is killed. HOW did that person get baptized in water?

Etc, etc, and etc!

And last but not least:

4. HOW did the thief on a cross next to Jesus; who accepted Jesus: get saved by being baptized in water? Huh?

Think about it.

In any case, may Jesus richly bless you yours always.

 

[Zayin7]

I believe I see the problem now. Christian baptism imparts the Holy Spirit. It's not that it's just the same old Jewish dedication ceremony and then the Holy Spirit comes in some separate way. Look at the description of Jesus' own baptism, for example.

It is the power of the transaction point.
We ,byfaith.(an action we do when we truly believe) die into christ and he as promised will come to live in us.. this occurs (I believe based upon what i have witnessed thus far)when a persons heart is in a genuine state of repentance . This (i believe)is why we do not always see people baptized in the holy ghost even after baptism in water.
The command in full is repent ,be baptized for the remission of your sin..and you will recieve the promised holy Spirit.
When the repentance is genuine god seals the deal .the transaction, our life laiddown and buried in baptism,his life raised up in us. (God doesnt suggest it.he demands it)- just as if you gave a car to me..it is gifted by grace ,but there is a point where the ownership papers making it mine are handed over. A tansaction point. Untill that occurs the promise is there ,but not passed over)

When the repentance is feigned ,there is no faith or they hold back in thier hearts harbouring bitterness or the like. Then that seal of Gods approval does not occur.

Some think the recieving of the holy spirit is automatic at either a single repetance prayer or at water baptism .but scipture plainly shows in Acts that it is not so .