Water Baptism

[Schroeder]

There are figurative uses of the term, but they still involve figures that associate them with water baptism. That's really clear with Matt 3:11, because it's stated in counterpoint.

There's an obvious parallel to the English "bathe". You can talk about "bathing" with no further connection, water's pretty obvious. But when someone says "bathed in light" a clearly figurative sense is meant. It still has a figurative connection to "bathe", but it's with light.

On Mk 10:38 the reference is to someone covered by an overwhelming series of events. Again, it's figurative of being deluged by some circumstance. The water imagery is still present.

But it as NOTHING to do with literale water. which you keep trying to make it. you are baptized by the Spirit into the Church. again NOTHING at all about litterale water. doesnt matter AT ALL that it has some sort of connection with what water does. So it is based on what it DOES not on what it is. H2O.

The baptism that Peter is speaking of is connected with water -- kinda obvious, since the souls were "saved through water".

I'll read it as it's intended instead.

They were saved by the ark read heb 11:7. the ARK represented Christ. the FLOOD or water was the work of GOD not man and the ARK went through this flood or water. this water sympolises the Flood or water, which did what, it cleansed the earth and gave it a new birth. Titus 3:5. thsi baptism of the SPirit is the work of GOD ONLY just as the flood was His only. So this SPirit baptism gives us a rebirth and renewal, just as the Flood water did to the earth. and Titus 3:5 tells us it is the Spirit. as does heb 9:14. which tells us ity cleanses our conscience. as it says how much more will the blood, THROUGH, the SPirit cleanse our conscience. SO this water sympolizes baptism that now saves you. THE SPIRIT BAPTISM OF CHRIST. GODs WORK NOT OURS. SO please do read it as it is intended. and i am not a mid acts pauline dispensationlist.

 

[2cents]

Excuse me??? LOL

In my church we don't practice water baptism! We are of NO "ilk", but are members of the Body of Christ and have been placed into His Body BY the ONE baptism of Eph 4:5.....no Water anywhere!

Have a nice day!

The water baptism that you see being practiced by "churches" is done in IGNORANCE and misunderstanding of what Gods purpose for water baptism WAS, and to whom it was given. It was never given to we the Body of Christ.

Were you ever water baptised, and if so will you renounce it?

 

[WAB]

Excuse me??? LOL

In my church we don't practice water baptism! We are of NO "ilk", but are members of the Body of Christ and have been placed into His Body BY the ONE baptism of Eph 4:5.....no Water anywhere!

Have a nice day!

The water baptism that you see being practiced by "churches" is done in IGNORANCE and misunderstanding of what Gods purpose for water baptism WAS, and to whom it was given. It was never given to we the Body of Christ.

And so, logically, you are calling Paul IGNORANT because he baptised IN WATER quite a few individuals and families subsequent to his receiving revelation of the mysteries.

Shalom... WAB

 

[eph3Nine]

And so, logically, you are calling Paul IGNORANT because he baptised IN WATER quite a few individuals and families subsequent to his receiving revelation of the mysteries.

Shalom... WAB

Thats EXACTLY it! In his ignorance that is what he did. When he realized that water baptism was NOT part of the Mystery message he was commissioned to dispense, you will note that he STOPPED DOING IT! And nowhere are we the Body of Christ admonished to either BAPTIZE OTHERS OR BECOME WATER BAPTIZED OURSELVES!

GREAT POINT, thank you for making it for me.

 

[eph3Nine]

Were you ever water baptised, and if so will you renounce it?

Before I knew right division, I was a Southern Baptist....LOL...which tells you that I was indeed water baptized.

I have no need to denounce it, as God now knows that I NOW KNOW better; however, if it will make you feel better, I denounce it as an error committed while I was yet in IGNORANCE about Gods current plan and program. This is like ANY sin...we dont have to renounce it...just dont do it again! LOL

Water baptism is NOT for we the Body of Christ. We can ALL have a METANOIA moment and change our mind when confronted with TRUTH. Or we can stay entrenched in "religious trappings" that have absolutely NO significance whatsoever but to keep well meaning folks all wound up in fleshly pursuits that keep them "legalistic" at best, and STILL ignorant at worst.

Sounds harsh? Truth invariably does to those who wish to hang onto error.

 

[WAB]

Thats EXACTLY it! In his ignorance that is what he did. When he realized that water baptism was NOT part of the Mystery message he was commissioned to dispense, you will note that he STOPPED DOING IT! And nowhere are we the Body of Christ admonished to either BAPTIZE OTHERS OR BECOME WATER BAPTIZED OURSELVES!

GREAT POINT, thank you for making it for me.

And so... applying a bit of logic again, Paul's ignorance was actually imparted by our all knowing God, because as 2 Timothy 3:16 puts it... "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God..." i.e. is God-breathed.

And that includes everything Paul, and Peter, and John and Luke and Matthew and Mark, etc.,etc. (for O.T. writers) wrote.

That is unless you choose to remove those sections of Scripture that Paul wrote that do not agree with your very twisted take on quite a few issues.

Also, thanks for the sarcastic sign-off...

Shalom... WAB

 

[eph3Nine]

And so... applying a bit of logic again, Paul's ignorance was actually imparted by our all knowing God, because as 2 Timothy 3:16 puts it... "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God..." i.e. is God-breathed.

Paul didnt receive all of the information at once, but progressively. He had the bare bones necessary to preach the MYSTERY...but it took him some time to absorb and recognize all the changes, Im sure. When he did recognize it, there were NO MORE water baptisms by Paul. He even tells us that he only baptized a FEW...I wonder why that was?

All scripture is given by inspiration of God but to different audiences. We are not into sacrificing animals for our sins or circumcizing men children for a sign of a covenant with God today...these were specific instructions given to the Nation Israel under HER program to be sure, but NOT given to we the Body of Christ.

What you seem UNWILLING to acknowledge is that Paul received NEW information that was a total change from the instructions given to NATIONAL Israel. Dont get mad at ME because you have not been shown this material before or have not seen it. Its IN both our bibles and WE are to be held responsible for RIGHTLY DIVIDING it the way God tells us to.

And that includes everything Paul, and Peter, and John and Luke and Matthew and Mark, etc.,etc. (for O.T. writers) wrote.

Peter and the twelve and Matthew , Mark , Luke and John were ministers to the CIRCUMCISION. This means to the JEW. There IS another program entirely that was given to PAUL that is for WE, the Body of Christ. If you dont SEE this from study then it makes you IGNORANT of important FACTS necessary for you to operate as God intended. If you willfully IGNORE or disregard the FACTS, I am not held accountable for your lack of regard for TRUTH.

That is unless you choose to remove those sections of Scripture that Paul wrote that do not agree with your very twisted take on quite a few issues.

Also, thanks for the sarcastic sign-off...

Shalom... WAB

We dont remove sections of scripture but enlist ALL of it to PROVE that God indeed DID have two separate programs in operation...ONLY ONE now...and most professing believers dont even know what it is!

Our view isnt TWISTED, but fits in quite nicely with how God tells us to study our Bibles. We are to keep in mind that His program for Israel has been SET ASIDE, and a NEW MYSTERY program is now in effect. IGNORING it doesnt make you right and me wrong! But God knew that there would be those who were ignorant of His plan and purpose for them, and we who KNOW are to share it with those who dont. Thats what Im a doin here....What you choose to do with the information is between you and God.

I had no intention of being sarcastic, but with every fiber of my being am VERY seriously attempting to show you what you might have missed.

Hope your Easter was wonderful!

By the way...I am just wondering why you use the Jewish greeting of Shalom? Are you Messianic by any chance? That would explain some of your confusion.

 

[WAB]

Am I "...Messianic by any chance?"

Not any more than Paul was...

Shalom...WAB

 

[eph3Nine]

Am I "...Messianic by any chance?"

Not any more than Paul was...

Shalom...WAB

Paul was the first member of the Body of Christ. Before that he was an unbeliever.

Do you understand what I meant by asking are you Messianic? Jesus is not OUR Messiah, but OUR "head". He is Israels MESSIAH.

 

[WAB]

Paul was the first member of the Body of Christ. Before that he was an unbeliever.

Do you understand what I meant by asking are you Messianic? Jesus is not OUR Messiah, but OUR "head". He is Israels MESSIAH.

Strange you should claim Paul is the first member of the Body of Christ, as there were quite a number of both Jews and Gentiles who were born-again believers prior to Paul coming to faith in the risen Christ.

Must have been a different kind of new birth?

It is obvious you have a problem with the use of any Hebrew/Jewish name/title, but what about Immanuel (or Emmanuel)? Is this Hebrew title to be disregarded as referring to "God with us" (or, if one prefers, "With us is God.")? See Is.7:14 and Matt.1:23...

This One who was born to the virgin Mary also bears the names "Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace." (see Is.9:6). Must these titles also be thrown out and replaced by "head"?

Am sorry to have to say this, but your declarations border on blasphemy.

Nevertheless, I hope you come to the place of peace...

There, I used a Gentile word just in case you are unaware of the meaning of Shalom... WAB

 

[heymikey80]

But it as NOTHING to do with literale water. which you keep trying to make it. you are baptized by the Spirit into the Church. again NOTHING at all about litterale water. doesnt matter AT ALL that it has some sort of connection with what water does. So it is based on what it DOES not on what it is. H2O.

It's like saying your signature has nothing at all to do with ink.

It might be true -- the reality of the promise isn't added a whit by the ink. But the ink is critical to seeing the promise, and the ink in the proper place on a contract is self-consciously confirming a binding oath.

They were saved by the ark read heb 11:7. the ARK represented Christ. the FLOOD or water was the work of GOD not man and the ARK went through this flood or water. this water sympolises the Flood or water, which did what, it cleansed the earth and gave it a new birth. Titus 3:5. thsi baptism of the SPirit is the work of GOD ONLY just as the flood was His only. So this SPirit baptism gives us a rebirth and renewal, just as the Flood water did to the earth. and Titus 3:5 tells us it is the Spirit. as does heb 9:14. which tells us ity cleanses our conscience. as it says how much more will the blood, THROUGH, the SPirit cleanse our conscience. SO this water sympolizes baptism that now saves you. THE SPIRIT BAPTISM OF CHRIST. GODs WORK NOT OURS. SO please do read it as it is intended. and i am not a mid acts pauline dispensationlist.

The promise of God was the water. The promise of the Judgement is what? It's the overwhelming destruction. Water visualizes the instrument God uses to cleanse the world. It's His ink on His promise. And it will be overwhelming.

 

[eph3Nine]

Strange you should claim Paul is the first member of the Body of Christ, as there were quite a number of both Jews and Gentiles who were born-again believers prior to Paul coming to faith in the risen Christ.

Tis NOT my claim to make, but the Word of God's. There were indeed many born again believers before Paul and they were born again into the KINGDOM church which was the Nation ISRAEL. For any gentile to enter THAT church they would have to embrace Judaism, NOT Christianity. The term born again was given by Christ ON EARTH to a JEWISH leader...Israel was BORN ONCE as a Nation and will be "born again". The phrase has nothing to do with we who are the "church, which is His BODY" today.

NONE of those who were born again before Paul were members of the Body of Christ. That was part of the MYSTERY message given EXCLUSIVELY to Paul and that NEW CREATION didnt exist until AFTER Acts 9 when Paul was saved INTO IT and it BEGAN!

Must have been a different kind of new birth?

The Nation Israel is who is to be BORN AGAIN. We are made NEW CREATIONS, ie; members of His BODY. There IS a difference.

It is obvious you have a problem with the use of any Hebrew/Jewish name/title, but what about Immanuel (or Emmanuel)? Is this Hebrew title to be disregarded as referring to "God with us" (or, if one prefers, "With us is God.")? See Is.7:14 and Matt.1:23...

Please dont make assumptions based on ONE question to you as to why YOU use jewish phrases. I have no problem with them. I am not part of a jewish church of the PAST, but a member of the Body of Christ in the PRESENT.

This One who was born to the virgin Mary also bears the names "Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace." (see Is.9:6). Must these titles also be thrown out and replaced by "head"?

Stick to the topic at hand. Jesus is not OUR promised Messiah. The many titles He has apply to him at all times. However, To Israel He is the Messiah, the promised ONE. To we the Body of Christ, he is the HEAD of the CHURCH, which IS His BODY. The contrast is made by GOD to keep us in mind of the difference between PROPHETIC and MYSTERY programs, which He wants us to KEEP SEPARATE.

Am sorry to have to say this, but your declarations border on blasphemy.

My declarations have their source in scripture rightly divided. Do yours? God doesnt blaspheme Himself.

If you would like to address any ONE topic with scripture, I would be happy to interact. Each one of these issues is an entire STUDY with much scripture to back it up. Many of these topics are already covered in this forum and I wont take the time to RETYPE what has already been provided. I suggest you take the time to study what has already BEEN provided, then if you have any additional questions, feel free to ask.

Nevertheless, I hope you come to the place of peace...

There, I used a Gentile word just in case you are unaware of the meaning of Shalom... WAB

I am IN the Prince of Peace Himself...and it dont get no better than THAT!

As for your little dig about shalom....all this hostility over my asking you why you use jewish words???? TSK , TSK, TSK. I know what it means, just wondered if you understand why using it identifies what program you think YOU are still under?

My questions are designed to make you THINK...not to elicit sarcastic and inflammatory statements. Until you can be civil...methinks we are done talking.

Grace and Peace tho

 

[Dispy]

So if water baptism is a satanic church carry over of no significance, will you and your ilk publicly renounce your water baptisms?

I was baptized as an infant. I had no say in the matter.

My later teaching, and understanding, was that it took the place of circumcision and placed me in the covenants to Israel.

As I got older, and able to read and understand what I was reading, I could not find that teaching in my Bible.

My studies have led me to the conclusion that I am not a spiritual Jew, and do not have the same promises/blessings as they. The one thing we do have in commin is salvation/justification through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Being I had no say in the matter of my baptism, I find it hard to ouright denounce it. So I just consider it an act of ingnorance on the part of my parents. Had I made the decision, then I would have no problem denouncing it. However, I will denounce it as a requirement for members of The Body of Christ today.

Don't know if I would consider it a satanic act, because it was God's requirement at one time. Therefore, I do believe that satan is pleased when those who do belive and parctise it today. He loves it when Christians do what is an unnecessarily practised; because it take away from the Cross of Christ, as Paul says in 1Cor.1:17.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often, and Love the Lord!

 

[Schroeder]

It's like saying your signature has nothing at all to do with ink.

It might be true -- the reality of the promise isn't added a whit by the ink. But the ink is critical to seeing the promise, and the ink in the proper place on a contract is self-consciously confirming a binding oath.

read eph 1:13-14. it tells us what is GUARANTEEING our inheritance. and the promise is also ther same thing. you are just dancing around the abviouse. he says in eph that we were marked by a seal, the what, thepromised holy Spirit, which is what, and you can write your signiture more then by just ink. it can be how your work is done, like how you build somewthing you have a trademark way of doing it that no other has, or you could have a bad manner which is evident by how people act after you speak to them ect ect. So in all your thinking is not accurate. and as much scripture is clerar what the seal and promise is.

The promise of God was the water. The promise of the Judgement is what? It's the overwhelming destruction. Water visualizes the instrument God uses to cleanse the world. It's His ink on His promise. And it will be overwhelming.

HARDLY. no scripture i see. your dancing again. try to at least use the scriptures i gave and reexplain them for me and show my error. it seemed rather clear to me. and from your response to you also which is why uyou are trying to avoid them. I AM not trying to abolish water baptism either just trying to make scripture show you are seeing it wrong. or ADDING to it something not there. whether it is harmful or not i thinkin a way it is and in a way it is not.

 

[heymikey80]

read eph 1:13-14. it tells us what is GUARANTEEING our inheritance. and the promise is also ther same thing. you are just dancing around the abviouse. he says in eph that we were marked by a seal, the what, thepromised holy Spirit, which is what, and you can write your signiture more then by just ink. it can be how your work is done, like how you build somewthing you have a trademark way of doing it that no other has, or you could have a bad manner which is evident by how people act after you speak to them ect ect. So in all your thinking is not accurate. and as much scripture is clerar what the seal and promise is.

The Spirit uses water to visibly represent the cleansing He is doing. You say there's only one thing that could be called a seal? The invisible Spirit? Why? In many cases there are visible seals needed or talked-about in Scripture (such as Paul talking about Corinth as the seal of his Apostleship).

And if there's a need that there be only one thing called "seal", what about "washing"? Why are there multiple "washings" that involve both the Spirit and water?

If any one is not born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God Jn 3:5

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word Ep 5:25-26

Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. 1 Cor 6:11

He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit Titus 3:5

let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Heb 10:22
​

The use of visible seals is exemplified in Scripture:

he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised Rom 4:11

and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. Col 2:11-12
​

So in reality, a "seal" can be a visible outgrowth or signature on a promise; or it can be the inward power and guarantee on a promise. The outward seal: water baptism. The inward seal: the Spirit of God.

HARDLY. no scripture i see. your dancing again. try to at least use the scriptures i gave and reexplain them for me and show my error. it seemed rather clear to me. and from your response to you also which is why uyou are trying to avoid them. I AM not trying to abolish water baptism either just trying to make scripture show you are seeing it wrong. or ADDING to it something not there. whether it is harmful or not i thinkin a way it is and in a way it is not.

Ah, so you're allowed to dance without explaining why you think Scripture is one way -- yet I'm not! I see. "Let me get that splinter out of your eye."

 

[heymikey80]

(double post)

 

[thereselittleflower]

Pauls job not to water baptize...the SPIRIT does the placing of the believer INTO the Body of Christ. THAT is the ONE baptism of OUR salvation.

Where does it say in the scriptures that it wasn't Paul's JOB to baptize?

The scriptures say he DID baptize.


Peace

 

[thereselittleflower]

One Lord, One faith, ONE baptism. Done BY the HOLY SPIRIT when He places us INTO the body of Christ. No water here , folks. Scripture means what it says and says what it means.

Then why were gentiles baptized in water?



Peace

 

[thereselittleflower]

"He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word" Eph 5:26

The washing of water is only made effective by the word spoken when one is baptized.

According to Jesus' instructions:

"I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit"
​

the word added to the washing of water of baptism by water.



Peace

 

[thereselittleflower]

ananias did the only thing he knew. The Mystery was not yet fully understood by Paul. When he realized the new information given to him and understood it...he said this:"for Christ sent me NOT to baptize but to preach the gospel"

Thre are at least 2 erroneous assumptions here.

One, that the english translation of the Greek you are quoting accurately conveys what was originally written and intended in the Greek.

And Two, that you are able to grasp what was originally written in the Greek by reading the words, the way they appear in your English translation, which even in Englilsh do not mandate the understanding you are giving them.

Paul baptized. We are told this in scripture.


Peace