Was there a diversion?

[timothyu]

Jesus and the earliest followers were Jews and remained Jews, not seeking to leave the Jewish religion to form another but on following through in the hopes of a Messiah.
Were the earliest Christians interested in what Christians today seek, or were they focused on a Messiah? Do people today seek a Messiah or are they more focused on themselves and personal salvation? How much has Christianity deviated from that original movement focused on a Messiah rather than self.

 

[YeshuaFollower]

Jesus and the earliest followers were Jews and remained Jews, not seeking to leave the Jewish religion to form another but on following through in the hopes of a Messiah.
Were the earliest Christians interested in what Christians today seek, or were they focused on a Messiah? Do people today seek a Messiah or are they more focviewused on themselves and personal salvation? How much has Christianity deviated from that original movement focused on a Messiah rather than self.

From what I know and have seen, many people today have forgotten the teachings of christ and do not follow his holy words, they prefer the religion of men simply because it is easier to follow. Jesus said the path Ito eternal life is through him. I may be wrong but earlier christian had a lot less of interference from the multitude of points of view offered by the myriad of denominations we have today, the gospel was simpler then but i am aware that even then there were different sects.

Personally by experience, I follow the source of the gospels, the words of Jesus Christ the son of GOD.

Blessings,

 

[timothyu]

Agree. Do you think the early followers were looking for personal salvation or a Messiah?

 

[YeshuaFollower]

Agree. Do you think the early followers were looking for personal salvation or a Messiah?

In honesty i would say both!

Blessings.

 

[timothyu]

In honesty i would say both!

Do you think the original followers were Messianics in the original sense (not like today) or Christians as we know today?

 

[Robban]

Jesus and the earliest followers were Jews and remained Jews, not seeking to leave the Jewish religion to form another but on following through in the hopes of a Messiah.
Were the earliest Christians interested in what Christians today seek, or were they focused on a Messiah? Do people today seek a Messiah or are they more focused on themselves and personal salvation? How much has Christianity deviated from that original movement focused on a Messiah rather than self.

A stumbling block is what it is.

There are so many opinions going way back based on,

Genesis 3:22,
versus
John 11:25.

Truth cannot die,
we see a body lowered into a hole in the ground and we mourn,

this is only part of this worlds falseness.

The deal is,
if someone is one with truth,
they do not die,
they pass on.

Truth cannot die,

The messianic era will be ushered in by a righteous scion of King David,
Isaiah 11:1
and will be charactized by world peace and harmony,
Micah 4:3.

Has not happened yet, but still waitimg even though he may tarry.

 

[YeshuaFollower]

Do you think the original followers were Messianics in the original sense (not like today) or Christians as we know today?

I think they were both, if we look at for example to joseph of arimathea, he and others part of the sanhedrin did believe Jesus was Christ. Just before the ascension of Jesus to heaven he asked the disciples to preach the good news to all nations, so I would say both.

Blessings.

JFF

​

 

[timothyu]

think they were both, if we look at for example to joseph of arimathea, he and others part of the sanhedrin did believe Jesus was Christ. Just before the ascension of Jesus to heaven he asked the disciples to preach the good news to all nations, so I would say both.

But was not the good news Messianic in that God was returning to take away governance of man from man and resume it Himself? That was Jesus' good news. Today most act like they are going to Heaven and don't even take note of the Kingdom.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Mark 9:1
Then Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God arrive with power."

See also Matthew 16:28 & Luke 9:27

I think in the 1st century, the followers of Jesus were expecting an anointed literal King and a literal Kingdom. A Jewish Messiah. Soon, i.e. within their lifetimes.

When that didn't materialize, the effort began on how to understand these verses, and it changed into something else in later Christianity.

 

[timothyu]

Mark 9:1
Then Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God arrive with power."

His resurrection.

 

[essentialsaltes]

His resurrection.

Right, that's the modern party line. But that's not the kind of Messiah that Jewish people were hoping for at that time. They wanted an anointed king to kick some Roman butt and free the Jews, thus creating a Jewish Kingdom.

Something like what Cyrus had done when he conquered Babylon, freeing and uplifting the Jews and assisting in rebuilding the Temple. Cyrus was not even a Jew, and yet he is called The Lord's messiah in Isaiah 45:1.

 

[timothyu]

They wanted an anointed king to kick some Roman butt and free the Jews, thus creating a Jewish Kingdom.

Yes that was their thinking but we know He was a Messiah of a different sort. But seems to me no one is looking for a Messiah any more to save us from ourselves, but rather a retirement package.

 

[essentialsaltes]

But seems to me no one is looking for a Messiah any more to save us from ourselves, but rather a retirement package.

Maybe you can expand on this, since it seems to be your real question (and I'm not really qualified to answer, but maybe others will). Let me see if I'm understanding.

Christians today want a 'retirement package' -- that is, they want to go to heaven.

Getting to heaven requires having your sins wiped away, forgiven, atoned for... and this requires a savior (Messiah) to save you from the fate you otherwise deserve for your sins. And that savior is Jesus.

You think people aren't paying enough attention to 'finding Jesus' -- to finding this savior.

Earlier you wrote "Do people today seek a Messiah or are they more focused on themselves and personal salvation?" Given that they are focused on personal salvation, what is it you think they're not doing enough of?

 

[timothyu]

Getting to heaven requires having your sins wiped away, forgiven, atoned for... and this requires a savior (Messiah) to save you from the fate you otherwise deserve for your sins. And that savior is Jesus.

Two points. We don't go to Heaven, the Kingdom come down from Heaven to us. Two... The Saviour at the time of His resurrection already opened the door to the Kingdom which previously had been closed. Death up to that point was final.

I'm saying the idea was a Messiah and Jesus was that Messiah, job done. He told us what was required of us to benefit. The earliest followers understood that and had no need to make a religion out of it. Why the ensuing diversion?

 

[Robban]

Two points. We don't go to Heaven, the Kingdom come down from Heaven to us. Two... The Saviour at the time of His resurrection already opened the door to the Kingdom which previously had been closed. Death up to that point was final.

I'm saying the idea was a Messiah and Jesus was that Messiah, job done. He told us what was required of us to benefit. The earliest followers understood that and had no need to make a religion out of it. Why the ensuing diversion?

Daniel 12:2.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I'm saying the idea was a Messiah and Jesus was that Messiah, job done.

OK, if it's old news, then why do you worry about "Do people today seek a Messiah"? The job's done.

As an outsider, perhaps predictably, I really don't know what you're trying to communicate.

 

[Aaron112]

I'm saying the idea was a Messiah and Jesus was that Messiah, job done. He told us what was required of us to benefit. The earliest followers understood that and had no need to make a religion out of it. Why the ensuing diversion?

Were the earliest Christians interested in what Christians today seek, or were they focused on a Messiah? Do people today seek a Messiah or are they more focused on themselves and personal salvation? How much has Christianity deviated from that original movement focused on a Messiah rather than self.

Good questions, pertaining to life , salvation in this life, and salvation in the life to come, which great multitudes , or a few, are "ripe" for the harvest, but there are few laborers.

Why the ensuing diversion ? I think it is written there must need be those who "go out from us" who were never a part of us, to show in God's Wisdom as He Says, those who are true and those who are not true.
The earliest , first century followers of Jesus would be miserable and mourn and weep about today's spectacles.

 

[timothyu]

The original Christians still attended their synagogues or the Temple. So there was an essence to Christianity that did not require the churches that came out of the gentile era. What was that essence that was all we truly need follow without the burden of new religion?

 

[timothyu]

Yes, the original Christians saw no need to build a religion out of it.

 

[Soyeong]

Agree. Do you think the early followers were looking for personal salvation or a Messiah?

The Messiah is our Savior, so there is no looking for one without looking for the other.

Do you think the original followers were Messianics in the original sense (not like today) or Christians as we know today?

"Messianic Judaism" is the form of Judaism that follows the Messiah, so it is the religion that was practiced by his original followers and the religion that will be practiced in the prophesies of the Millennial Reign. People are free to debate how close the Messianic Judaism of today is to the religion practiced by the originally followers of Messiah, though it is at least the goal to be close. Messiah spent his ministry teaching his followers how to obey the Torah by word and by example, but Christians today teach against following the Torah.

Yes, the original Christians saw no need to build a religion out of it.

Jesus practiced Judaism by setting a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Torah and the original Christians also practiced his religion.

But was not the good news Messianic in that God was returning to take away governance of man from man and resume it Himself? That was Jesus' good news. Today most act like they are going to Heaven and don't even take note of the Kingdom.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Torah was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which Jesus prophesied would be proclaimed to all nations. So the Kingdom of God is composed of citizens who believe the Gospel of the Kingdom by repenting and obeying the Torah, and the Kingdom of God is spread by spreading the Gospel in accordance with the promise, starting with those that Abraham spread the Gospel of the Kingdom to in Haran (Galatians 3:8, Genesis 12:1-5).