Was the "Fall" meant to happen?

[Eldeah]

So after reading the first three chapters of Genesis, I came to the realization that the fall of Adam and Eve was meant to happen and here is why.
If Adam and Eve did not sin, we wouldnt have gained the image of G'd.

Genensis 3:22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”​

What do you think?

 

[timf]

Man had already been created in the image of God initially. What changed was the knowledge gained.

You might consider that creating beings with free will would inevitably lead to their choosing to go their own way.

 

[Eldeah]

Man had already been created in the image of God initially. What changed was the knowledge gained.

You might consider that creating beings with free will would inevitably lead to their choosing to go their own way.

Hi Timf,
do you hold the position that the creation of mankind in genensis 1 is seperate from the creation of man in genesis 2?

"go their own way" if you read Genensis 3, Disobidience had to have happened in order for us to become in the image of G'd. The one thing G'd desired.
In that sense the fall is not really a "Fall", right?

 

[timf]

Gen_1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen_1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

I see the creation in the "image"already accomplished in Gen 1:27

Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

The word "generations" can also be translated "births". The idea of Gen 2 to me is not a second creation but an expanded description of the only creation.

 

[Eldeah]

Gen_1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen_1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

I see the creation in the "image"already accomplished in Gen 1:27

Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

The word "generations" can also be translated "births". The idea of Gen 2 to me is not a second creation but an expanded description of the only creation.

I agree that Genesis 2 is an in depth depiction of what happened in Gen 1. So here is the matter nowhere in Genesis 2 after man was created is it been said that they where from the start created in the image of G'd. But after the "Fall" G'd says "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.". So the "First Sin" needed to have happened in order to complete us becoming in the full image of G'd.

 

[HarleyER]

So after reading the first three chapters of Genesis, I came to the realization that the fall of Adam and Eve was meant to happen and here is why.
If Adam and Eve did not sin, we wouldnt have gained the image of G'd.

Genensis 3:22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”​

What do you think?

Yes, the fall was meant to happen. Without it Adam would never understand how weak his love for God was and the great love and forgiveness God had for him.

 

[Eldeah]

Yes, the fall was meant to happen. Without it Adam would never understand how weak his love for God was and the great love and forgiveness God had for him.

Hi HarleyER, can you point out some scripture to me which i can read in order to understand what you mean?

 

[HarleyER]

Hi HarleyER, can you point out some scripture to me which i can read in order to understand what you mean?

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

I reached this conclusion in understanding the nature and character of God. First, we know that God is omnipresent (present everywhere), omnipotent (all powerful), and omniscience (all knowing). Thus, when God planted the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden (Genesis 3), He knew the outcome yet He did it anyway. We know that God never does anything that isn't loving and best for us.

As we see in Hebrews, the only way to please God (Adam included) is that we must believe in God and that God will reward those who seek after Him. God is looking for true disciples. Adam, just like us, had to have faith in God that God would rectify his sinfulness. The planting of the tree of knowledge was for Adam's benefit as well as us so that he would come to God in faith and thus please God.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

So after reading the first three chapters of Genesis, I came to the realization that the fall of Adam and Eve was meant to happen and here is why.
If Adam and Eve did not sin, we wouldnt have gained the image of G'd.

Genensis 3:22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”​

What do you think?

What do I think? I think it depends first of all on how one deals with the issue of the Documentary Hypothesis and any other Historiographical issues that are germane to the literary nature and structure of Genesis 1-3.

 

[Clare73]

So after reading the first three chapters of Genesis, I came to the realization that the fall of Adam and Eve was meant to happen and here is why.
If Adam and Eve did not sin, we wouldnt have gained the image of G'd.

Genensis 3:22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”​

What do you think?

Yes, the Fall was an important part of God's plan, the means for displaying both his justice and his mercy.

 

[Aaron112]

If Adam and Eve did not sin, we wouldnt have gained the image of G'd.

Man and woman were made in the image of G'd. They/we did not gain anything in /by sin.

 

[Aaron112]

So the "First Sin" needed to have happened in order to complete us becoming in the full image of G'd.

Not at all. Sin destroyed what image of God man and woman had to start with. There was/is no completion accomplished by sin.

 

[Aaron112]

What do you think?

When anyone reads less than one percent of what The Creator Reveals Through His Word,
and makes a claim of realizing something, something contrary to the fullness of The Creator's Word, something either adding to or taking away from the Creator's Word,
they are plainly in danger of losing what they might have of eternal life,
or of adding to their own life the plagues the Creator says happens .

 

[stevevw]

So after reading the first three chapters of Genesis, I came to the realization that the fall of Adam and Eve was meant to happen and here is why.
If Adam and Eve did not sin, we wouldnt have gained the image of G'd.

Genensis 3:22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”​

What do you think?

It seems to me that for some reason the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the tree of life where they could gain knowledge of living forever are two aspects of some greater realm which God exists in. THat only He could handle. The knowledge of good and evil must have been a possibility from the beginning. Or something that had to exist if God was all good.

How this all works together is impossible to know. But I think it had to be. Satan had already introduced that idea before creation. To me what happened had to have happened to allow all manifestations of evil, rationalisations, ideologies and false spirits to have their 15 minutes of fame so they can finally be defeated.

Its almost inherent in the way things are. We object to the injustices and wonder why the universe is so cruel. This all cannot make sense until Gods true justice through Christ is left and all resistence is dealt with.

But it also means that what started in the garden, what happened with Noahs flood is pointing to a showdown and evil has yet to fully be realised. As it gets closer to the end satan and his followers will become more desperate and there will be outright spiritual warfare. In fact its already starting I think.

 

[Avaree]

There is a difference between foreknowledge (the fact that GOD who is all-knowing, knew that Adam would fall) and pre-ordained (the assertion that the fall was meant to happen).

Was it GOD's plan that after creation Adam should fall? No.

Foreknowledge does not imply that the the fall of Adam was predetermined. Adam and Eve had the freedom to make choices, even if those choices were known in advance. GOD knew Adam would fall and had the plan of salvation ready even before he created him. Rev 13:8 says: All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

But Adam had the free will to obey GOD. He chose not to. An example to illustrate would be this:

. . . if someone foresees a person choosing to go left or right at a fork in the road, that person still has the free will to make either choice. You could warn him not take the left fork because you know the danger that lies ahead but he is free to choose when he gets there.

That was how it was with Adam and Eve.

 

[Strong in Him]

So after reading the first three chapters of Genesis, I came to the realization that the fall of Adam and Eve was meant to happen and here is why.
If Adam and Eve did not sin, we wouldnt have gained the image of G'd.

We were made in the image of God, Genesis 1:27.

 

[Clare73]

There is a difference between foreknowledge (the fact that GOD who is all-knowing, knew that Adam would fall) and pre-ordained (the assertion that the fall was meant to happen).

In the NT prognosis (foreknowledge) is used only of God knowing what he is going to do, and he knows that because he has decreed that he shall do it.

 

[Josheb]

So after reading the first three chapters of Genesis, I came to the realization that the fall of Adam and Eve was meant to happen and here is why.
If Adam and Eve did not sin, we wouldnt have gained the image of G'd.

Genensis 3:22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”​

What do you think?

I think this is one of the most misguided questions in the history of Christian theology.

There are two ways to approach the question to show its fundamentally presuppositionally red herring nature. The first is to realize that if something unintended happened, then God is not almighty, sovereign, and/or omniscient. The second is to realize Jesus was coming into creation whether sin ever occurred or not and his redemptive work is not part of a contingency plan, or an afterthought on God's part to cover something that may or may not occur.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So after reading the first three chapters of Genesis, I came to the realization that the fall of Adam and Eve was meant to happen and here is why.
If Adam and Eve did not sin, we wouldnt have gained the image of G'd.

Genensis 3:22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”​

What do you think?

God is omniscient and omnipresent so everything that happens is meant to happen, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that God wants everything to happen. Remember, the names that are written in the book of life were written according to His foreknowledge before creation.

 

[Palmfever]

So after reading the first three chapters of Genesis, I came to the realization that the fall of Adam and Eve was meant to happen and here is why.
If Adam and Eve did not sin, we wouldnt have gained the image of G'd.

Genensis 3:22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”​

What do you think?

I don't know that it was intentional, it was however known that it would occur.


1 Peter 1:19
But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Rev 13:7-8
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Satan was before the Garden plotting.
Ezekial 28
Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealed up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13 You have been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of your tabrets and of your pipes was prepared in you in the day that you were created.

14 You are the anointed cherub that covers; and I have set you so: you were upon the holy mountain of God; you walked up and down in the middle of the stones of fire.

15 You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of your merchandise they have filled the midst of you with violence, and you have sinned: therefore I will cast you as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty, you have corrupted your wisdom by reason of your brightness: I will cast you to the ground, I will lay you before kings, that they may behold you.

Satan must not have known that God knew of his plot and had implemented the perfect solution prior to creation.