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Featured Was Satan a Created Being and Fallen Angel?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by TribulationSigns, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    It is the passage where theologians originally got the whole idea of Cherubim being angels in the first place. The source of confusion is the mention of the Cherub in Ezekiel 28:14. The passage in question quite clearly declares that the person it is speaking about as the covering Cherub is the king of Tyrus, not an angel. Nevertheless, certainly, we can understand their logic, if not their entrenchment. They "assume" that because the reference here says the king was in the Garden of Eden, it has to refer to Satan as a fallen angel. And from this, they surmise that God is using the king as a type of Satan. However, without a Biblical warrant, we cannot make such a leap of faith in interpretation. The rule of thumb applies that "assumption is the mother of error." He was called the anointed cherub because he was a representative man, created in the likeness of God in Adam, and has fallen into sin and lost all semblance of the image of God. Clearly, the King of Tyrus was not in the Garden of Eden, nor perfect in beauty as Adam was, but he is representative of mankind and his degradation.

    Ezekiel 28:12-16

    • "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
    • Thou hast been in Eden the Garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
    • Thou art the anointed Cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
    • Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
    • By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering Cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire."
    At first glance, it is easy to see how one could make such a mistake about the king representing a fallen angel. However, rather than "reading into this text" an angel, the king of Tyrus is quite clearly a man being castigated by God for being created in the image of God to be righteous, but who has turned from God in his sin and thus come under judgment. So rather than represent a fallen angel, this represents FALLEN MAN. It illustrates original man in Adam, created good (Genesis 1:26-27) in the image/likeness of God before the fall. Man, as he was created without sin, but who has fallen in Adam, losing the glory of the likeness of God he was created with. Thus because of his fall and our inheritance of his spirit of bondage to disobedience, we are all subject to death. But thanks to our God, that full glory of God's image can be restored in Christ Jesus. Which is why Christ is often referred to as the second Adam.

    1st Corinthians 15:20-22
    • "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
    • For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
    • For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."
    Now we can see the spiritual darkness begin to clear as we can see more of the picture. We were 'all' created in the image of God in Adam. The sin of Adam separated man from that image of God. And in the process, it separated all of us in generations to follow from that likeness. It was the man, not the angel, who was perfect in the mountain (Kingdom) of God. But sin was found in us, and we all died in Adam (1st Corinthians 15:20-22) and are come under judgment as surely as King Tyrus had. And except we are restored to the image of God that 'man' had in the garden, we remain fallen and subject to the wrath of God. The king of Tyrus is a man directly from the loins of Adam, who can only be restored to the image of God, in the second Adam, which is Christ.

    Romans 8:29
    • "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."
    It should be self-evident that (according to scripture) it was a man (Adam) and not angels who were in the Garden of Eden where every precious stone was his covering. It was Adam who was the anointed Cherub that covereth upon the Holy mountain of God because He was the very image/likeness of the Glory of God. It was Adam who walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire (in the presence of God) in that Garden. In point of fact, the very name "Tyrus" means a stone! So it's quite obvious to me what is being illustrated here. It was in Adam that man was in the image of God and perfect in all his ways in the garden from the day that he was created, until iniquity was found in him (the fall). And the fall of the king of Tyrus in his sinfulness "personifies" this fall from God's image by Adam. God is illustrating to fallen man that we qualify by attempting to be like God in eating of the tree of knowledge without wisdom. Man qualifies for "all" that we read in Ezekiel 28:12-16. But Angels do not qualify! We interpret scripture by scripture, not by popular assumptions. And not once do we read of angels in the Garden of Eden. Not once do we read of angels falling in the Garden of Eden. Not once do we read of angels being corrupted because of knowledge. Not once do we read of angels defiling their sanctuaries by the multitude of their iniquities. On the contrary, we read of man in the garden, man was perfect there from the time he was created, and man is the one who fell there. And let's not forget, did not God say these very things of Adam?

    Genesis 3:22
    • "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:"
    It is man who was corrupted because of knowledge, not angels. He sought to be as God by his disobedience in eating of the tree of knowledge, and it was this that caused his fall in the day he transgressed. Satan in the Garden of Eden didn't have every precious stone his covering, but Adam was made glorious, precious in the sight of the Lord. Satan was not set the anointed Cherub that covereth upon the holy mountain of God, but scripture says Adam (man) was created in the very image of God so that this definition is consistent. In point of fact, everything in the Garden of Eden was 'under the dominion of Adam,' (Genesis 1:26-28;3:1) as He was perfect. Adam was the very likeness or image of God. ..as a Cherub.

    Genesis 1:26-27
    • "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
    • So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
    Letting the scripture be its own interpreter, we must ask where is it written in scripture that Satan was created in the image of God (as a Cherub) in the Garden of Eden? We don't read that of Satan, but we do read that of man! Scripture does not say that Satan was perfect in the day He was created until his fall, but God created Adam (man) perfect, without sin, with free access to the tree of life until the day of his fall. In all of scripture, there is no one (besides Christ, the God man) whom God declares was created perfect, except Adam. This in itself should illustrate to us that the king of Tyrus "personifies" man who had everything and lost it in the fall. In fact, the very language, "perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created," clearly harkens back to the creation of Adam.

    Genesis 5:1-2
    • "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
    • Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created."
    So again, it all points to the King of Tyrus as a representation of fallen Man, not of an angel nor Satan. Adam walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire and had no reason to hide from God before the fall. All these things which God speaks of concerning the King of Tyrus applies to Adam before the fall. He was the very image of God (cherub) from the day that he was created, till iniquity was found in him. And by the multitude of his iniquity is their violence, and he has sinned, and therefore will God cast him as profane out of His Mountain.

    When God says, "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus," He did not ask us to take lamentation for Satan, nor for fallen angels, which is absurd! Rather, we lamentation for a fallen man! When God says, "I will destroy thee, O covering Cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire," it speaks of the judgment of man, and how He has come under the wrath of God.

    I hope that this post will help you think more about it. You may be wondering if Satan was not a fallen angel, then what is he really and where did he come from? I will plan to write about the origin and role of Satan, that old serpent, in the garden, Lord willing.
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    Some things are not so clear as all that. I.E. the water is pretty muddy.

    When a person TODAY has a demon cast out of them, ask them if the demon was a created being and fallen or not. Their answer is quite different than the op's , apparently.
  3. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

    Here we read of Satan, however Satan is also referred to as a man in v16.
    Was Lucifer Satan and is Lucifer fallen from heaven?
    'Is this the man', however not a man, but Lucifer has become as powerless as a man and shares the fate of men in death, so then judged as a man, Lucifer, Satan lost his heavenly privilege and celestial status and become as weak as man, what a cutdown for this proud celestial being who wanted to be as a god, to end up as a man in death.

    Isaiah 14 New King James Version (NKJV)

    The Fall of Lucifer
    12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
    O Lucifer, son of the morning!
    How you are cut down to the ground,
    You who weakened the nations!
    13 For you have said in your heart:
    ‘I will ascend into heaven,
    I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
    I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
    On the farthest sides of the north;
    14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
    I will be like the Most High.’
    15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
    To the lowest depths of the Pit.

    16 “Those who see you will gaze at you,
    And consider you, saying:
    Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
    Who shook kingdoms,
    17 Who made the world as a wilderness
    And destroyed its cities,
    Who did not open the house of his prisoners?’

    18 “All the kings of the nations,
    All of them, sleep in glory,
    Everyone in his own house;
    19 But you are cast out of your grave
    Like an abominable branch,
    Like the garment of those who are slain,
    Thrust through with a sword,
    Who go down to the stones of the pit,
    Like a corpse trodden underfoot.
    20 You will not be joined with them in burial,
    Because you have destroyed your land
    And slain your people.
    The brood of evildoers shall never be named.
    21 Prepare slaughter for his children
    Because of the iniquity of their fathers,
    Lest they rise up and possess the land,
    And fill the face of the world with cities.”
  4. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

    Satan the devil has his children, his people, and God in Christ has His children, his people.
    The children of God will inherit the earth.
    The children of the devil will inherit an eternal desolation in hellfire, as will their father the devil.
    The seed of the serpent mentioned in Genesis 3, will be destroyed by the SEED of the woman, Christ.

    Genesis 3
    14 So the Lord God said to the serpent:

    “Because you have done this,
    You are cursed more than all cattle,
    And more than every beast of the field;
    On your belly you shall go,
    And you shall eat dust
    All the days of your life.
    15 And I will put enmity
    Between you and the woman,
    And between your seed and her Seed;
    He shall bruise your head,
    And you shall bruise His heel.”

    Jesus explains the parable of the tares and the wheat, and we read Satan sows his seed among God's wheat sown by the Son of Man.

    Matthew 13
    36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

    37 He answered and said to them:
    He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.
    38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.
    39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.

    40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
  5. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

    What happened to the OP? :scratch:
  6. JackRT

    JackRT Well-Known Member Supporter

    God didn't create Satan, man did. Satan (ha'shaitan) occurs by name in the Old Testament in the Book of Job, and here it's clear that the angel Satan is not the Devil! The Devil is supposedly banished from the presence of God, yet in Job, Satan is allowed to talk with and to come and go from God's presence and on a mission for God yet! What's going on? Satan here is not "the Devil" but sort of God's prosecuting attorney. There is a very common perception that the 'Lucifer' in Isaiah 14:12ff refers to Satan, the supernatural personification of evil. This misconception comes from two sources. The first is wishful thinking in the sense that it is nice to think that 'the Enemy' will get his come-uppance eventually. The second has to do with the old caution that scripture is to be read only 'in context'. This requires going back and reading all of Isaiah 13 and the earlier verses in Isaiah 14. When this is done we suddenly realize that scripture is not speaking of a supernatural Satan at all but of a Babylonian king with an immense ego. Read Isaiah 14: " 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:" What follows is a long rant against this oppressive king filled with numerous reference to his human nature like Isaiah 14: "16 Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, 17 the man who made the world a desert, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?" This passage is in no way a reference to Satan or the devil. The Jews did not originally believe in devils but they picked up this concept during the Babylonian Exile from the Persians who followed Zoroastrianism. The Zoroastrians believed in both a god of good (Ahura-Mazda) and a god of evil (Ahrulman) engaged in a cosmic struggle. The Jews picked up and ran with this idea. It was easy to cast YHWH in the role of the God of good. They took also the angel ha'shaitan (Satan) in the book of Job and recast that character as Satan the near divine force of evil. Up to that time, their concept of God was of a being responsible for everything, both good and evil. Isaiah 45:”7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” is just one quote that demonstrates this. The Jews never connected Satan to the serpent in the Garden of Eden. It was the second-century Christian martyr, Justin of Samaria, who was first to argue that Satan appeared as a serpent to tempt Adam and Eve to disobey God.
  7. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

    United States
    United Methodist
    It would seem to me the Lord created all that exists, so it would follow, if I am correct, that he created Satan. I can't remember the Bible saying Satan was a fallen angel, though.
  8. JackRT

    JackRT Well-Known Member Supporter

    Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

    I believe that 'sons of God' is an euphemism for angels. As for being fallen, I don't know since I am not sure when the story of the great war in heaven in prehistory was first developed.
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

    United States
    It is an OT style of writing. Typology. the King of Tyre a symbol used for Satan.

    And the child of Isaiah's day - for the Messiah

    Isaiah 8

    3 And I went to the prophetess, and she conceived and bore a son. Then the Lord said to me, “Call his name Maher-shalal-hash-baz; 4 for before the boy knows how to cry ‘My father’ or ‘My mother,’ the wealth of Damascus and the spoil of Samaria will be carried away before the king of Assyria.”

    Isaiah 9
    but in the latter time he has made glorious the way of the sea, the land beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the nations.
    2 The people who walked in darkness
    have seen a great light;
    those who dwelt in a land of deep darkness,
    on them has light shone.
    3 You have multiplied the nation;
    you have increased its joy;
    they rejoice before you
    as with joy at the harvest,
    as they are glad when they divide the spoil.
    4 For the yoke of his burden,
    and the staff for his shoulder,
    the rod of his oppressor,
    you have broken as on the day of Midian.
    5 For every boot of the tramping warrior in battle tumult
    and every garment rolled in blood
    will be burned as fuel for the fire.
    6 For to us a child is born,
    to us a son is given;

    and the government shall be upon his shoulder,
    and his name shall be called
    Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
    7 Of the increase of his government and of peace
    there will be no end,
    on the throne of David and over his kingdom,
    to establish it and to uphold it
    with justice and with righteousness
    from this time forth and forevermore
    The zeal of the Lord of hosts will do this.
  10. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

    United States
    United Methodist
    But Job 1:6 doesn't really identify who Satan was, does it?
  11. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    Not hardly a reference to man. It is a reference to Satan, who incarnated the serpent in the garden. And is backed up by Revelation 12.

    9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    In verse 9, he will be cast down to earth. Corresponding to Ezekiel 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

    When Jesus returns the brightness of his coming will melt away to ashes the facade of the image of the beast, the statue made in the likeness of the beast, which will be on the temple mount, that everyone has had to worship for the time, times, half times - and there will be Satan exposed on the temple mount for everyone to see.

    18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

    None of those things apply to man on any level.
  12. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    Satan, who is a literal, seven-headed, red, serpentine dragon (Revelation 12:3,9), also called Leviathan (Isaiah 27:1, Psalms 74:14, Job 41:1,34), could have begun his existence as a dinosaur, born some 66 million years ago, near the end the age of the dinosaurs. Over millions of years before his birth, his dinosaur species could have evolved (or been miraculously granted by God) to have consciousness as we know it. And his seven-headedness, which could have been a fortuitous (or a miraculous) mutation, could have been heralded by his species as the arrival of a super-consciousness into the world. As he grew up as a conscious dinosaur, Leviathan could have come to know and worship God with all of his heart. God could have then granted him immortality, and taken him into heaven to serve God as a cherub. Cherubim are a type of angelic being (Ezekiel 10) which could include individuals shaped like different animals, like how seraphim are a different type of angelic being (Isaiah 6:2-3) which includes individuals shaped like different animals (Revelation 4:7-8). As a cherub in heaven, Leviathan could have been assigned to the office of "the morning star", and so been given the name "Lucifer", which means "the morning star".

    After spending some 66 million years in heaven as a very contented cherub, and perhaps as even one of the greatest angelic beings in heaven, Lucifer could have been assigned by God to go to the earth to be a "covering cherub" over the Garden of Eden (Ezekiel 28:13-14), to watch over that special, local garden, and its special, individual humans named Adam and Eve, miraculously created by God only some 6,000 years ago. God could have also at that time given the as-yet-unfallen Lucifer authority over all of the rest of the earth (cf. Luke 4:5-6). But Lucifer could have chafed at his new assignment, seeing it as wholly beneath his dignity. He could have felt like a long-time chief of staff of a U.S. President would feel if he were suddenly assigned by the President to leave his high position in the White House to go baby-sit two pet salamanders in a hothouse in Alaska.

    From Eden, Lucifer could have repeatedly requested God to let him return to his high position in heaven, only to be refused, until Lucifer in his heart fell into rebellion against God, and vowed to himself that eventually he would ascend back into heaven, and take rule over all of the angelic beings there, regardless of what God wanted (Isaiah 14:13-14). And so the fallen Lucifer became Satan (cf. Luke 10:18), which means the "Adversary". While still in Eden, as possibly his first act of open rebellion against God, Satan decided to deceive Eve into disobeying God (Genesis 3), knowing that this would result in her (and her offspring) becoming mortal (Genesis 2:17). In the future, Satan will deceive the world (Revelation 12:9) into worshipping himself and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4-8), knowing that this will result in billions of people ending up in eternal suffering (Revelation 14:9-11), the same eternal suffering which he knows that he himself will end up in (Revelation 12:12c, Revelation 20:10,15, Matthew 25:41,46).

    Lucifer will deceive the world into worshipping him after he loses a war in heaven at the midpoint of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and is cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:7 to 13:4). But instead of coming down looking defeated, he could descend to the earth in a magnificent, gigantic golden spaceship for all the world to see. The world could see him as an alien, but he could slither forth from his spaceship and say something like: "Greetings! Be not alarmed. I assure you that I am no alien, but a fellow earthling, born and raised on this planet millions of years ago. I have come to help you through this terrible tribulation which you are experiencing, and to show you how you might eventually return with me back into a much better, higher realm of existence, wholly beyond this evil, material universe".

    He could then foist upon the world an updated version of an ancient Gnostic lie: "Listen, my fellow earthlings! None of us belong here. We did not start out here, but all started out as wholly-spiritual beings, even wholly-divine beings, residing in utter bliss from all eternity in the Pleroma, what you would call Heaven, the higher realm which I will eventually take you back to. During the endless ages of our past existence in the Pleroma, we were not averse to partaking in a great variety of different entertainments. So when YHWH, who was one of us, yet of greater consciousness than any one of us, announced that he had devised a marvelous new form of entertainment, we were ready to give it a try.

    "YHWH said that he had created a physical universe (this one), which to us was like what you would call a virtual reality, like the ones you create using computers. And he said that we could enter this universe, and interact with all of its amazing physical life-forms and objects, by temporarily taking upon ourselves physical bodies, which to us was the equivalent of what you would call a virtual-reality headset, gloves, etc., which some of you wear on your bodies when you want to wholly immerse yourselves in the virtual realities which you create with computers.

    "But then YHWH proposed another aspect to his entertainment which we all most foolishly accepted. He said that in order to increase the intensity of our experience in his universe, he would use his greater consciousness to hypnotize each of ours, so that while we were in his universe, each of us would think that all we were were physical entities within his material universe. We would completely forget that we were actually wholly-divine beings, and had been from all eternity, dwelling in bliss in the Pleroma.

    "When one of us asked YHWH: 'But what if we don't like our experience in your universe, and want to exit it and return here to the Pleroma? How could we ever notify you of our wishes, when under your hypnotic spell we will have no knowledge of that option?' YHWH answered in a very assuring manner that he would be able to instantly extricate any one of us whom he saw was not enjoying his new entertainment. We all believed him, because he had not yet shown his true nature to anyone. We had no idea that in his heart he was actually an evil, cruel tyrant, who all along had been planning to imprison, enslave, and torture all of us within his diabolical device (this physical universe).

    "But during my great sufferings in YHWH's physical realm, and the great struggles of my consciousness, my spirit, to find a way of escaping it, my spirit eventually grew in power to be equal to YHWH's, and so I was able to break myself free from his hypnotic spell, and regain all of my divine power. I can show you the way to do the same thing, but you must be willing to join with me now with all of your own consciousnesses, your own spirits. You must be willing to love and worship me now completely, so that the power of all of your spirits might become joined with the power of my own, greater spirit, and eventually break completely free from YHWH's hypnotic spell. Then you will regain all of your own, divine power, like I did, and together we will defeat YHWH, and we will escape this vile, material universe, and ascend back to the Pleroma, and to our bliss as gods, doing what we please, forever"

    The world will actually believe this lie (or something similar to it), for it will be accompanied by the most amazing miracles (e.g. Revelation 13:13), performed by the power of Lucifer/Satan himself (2 Thessalonians 2:9), and because it will be accompanied by a strong delusion sent by YHWH God on the unrepentant world (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12). But the world will worship Lucifer (and his human son the Antichrist) for less than four years (Revelation 13:4-18, Daniel 12:11-12) before Jesus Christ (who is YHWH: John 10:30, Zechariah 14:3-4) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Revelation 19:20 to 20:3). Jesus will then set up his own, 1,000-year, physical kingdom on the earth with the physically resurrected Church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).
  13. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    If Ezekiel 28:2 has application to future events because of its similarity to the never-fulfilled 2 Thessalonians 2:4, then the prince of Tyre could be the future human ruler commonly called the Antichrist (Daniel 11:36, Revelation 13:5-18). If that is the case, then the king of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:12) could be Lucifer (Satan, the dragon), who will empower the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9). Lucifer, before his fall and Adam's fall, could have been placed as a covering cherub over Eden (Ezekiel 28:13-15).

    There is a curious correlation between the prince and the king of Tyre on the one hand (Ezekiel 28), and the use of the name "Hiram" in the mystical teachings of a worldwide secret society which teaches Gnostic Luciferianism at its highest degree of initiation. For Hiram was the name of the human king of Tyre at the time of the building of King Solomon's temple (1 Kings 5). Also, Hiram was the name of another person from Tyre, the human master workman who helped Solomon build the temple (1 Kings 7:13-14). If the king and prince of Tyre addressed in Ezekiel 28 are Lucifer and the Antichrist, then the name "Hiram" would be a perfect code name (not the actual name) for both of them, a name by which their identity within the Gnostic Luciferian teachings of the worldwide secret society could be kept secret from all but its highest-level initiates. Just as the human workman named Hiram built a temple to God in which the world was to worship (1 Kings 8:41-43), so the Antichrist will bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Revelation 13:4), when the Antichrist gains power over the earth (Revelation 13:7).

    The Antichrist's future, Luciferian rule over the earth could be pictured by the most common, publicly known symbol for the worldwide secret society, in which a drafting/measuring compass, an instrument shaped like the two legs of an "A" (as in "Antichrist"), is sometimes shown standing on top of a globe of the earth. And beneath, as in support of, the "A" is a drafting/measuring square, an instrument shaped like an "L" (as in "Lucifer"). Also, found within the "L" is the letter "G", which could ultimately stand for the (false) "Gnosis" (knowledge) of Gnosticism (compare the original Greek of 1 Timothy 6:20b), which the secret society (mistakenly) thinks can be found in Lucifer. The Antichrist will teach the ancient Gnostic lie that YHWH God is evil (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36), and the ancient Gnostic lie that Christ isn't in the flesh (1 John 4:3). The Antichrist will also deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22).
  14. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    No, we will not cast out spirits today like Christ did during His ministry. What happened with Christ was an example or a token.
  15. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    Satan is not fallen man. He is a spirit that exists within fallen man.

    No, Lucifer that weakens or discomfits the nations is the MESSENGER of the CHURCH who has the SPIRT of Antichrist to usurp God's Word and rule by his own means. He is the SINFUL MAN, or as 2nd Thessalonians calls him, the man of lawlessness. This fallen man is called Lucifer is BECAUSE he has the spirit of disobedience.

    Lucifer was never created, existed or had heavenly privilege. He is NOT a celestially being as some traditional teaches.
  16. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    Despite their popular traditional interpretation of Ezekiel 28, God did NOT create Satan or Lucifer. Consider wisely:

    Ezekiel 28:12-16
    • "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
    Do you really think God told Ezekiel to lamentation over Satan or fallen angel? No, we lamentation for the king of Tyrus because he is a representative of fallen man!

    Ezekiel 28:15
    • Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,till iniquity was found in thee.
    Adam and Eve were created perfectly until the iniquity (lust after fruit and ate it) was found in them. Eve was deceived first by her own lust, and then successfully had her husband to disobey too by taking the bite after he knew that God has warned him not to eat. They were both disobedient.
  17. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

    United States
    United Methodist
    It seems to me that the Lord must have created everything (and everyone).
  18. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    Everything? Really? Did God create sin? Did God create sin for Eve because she was deceived by her spirit of disobedience? And that spirit has a name. Can you guess the name? :)
  19. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

    United States
    United Methodist
    The Lord created a world that had the potential to sin, but more importantly, we are talking about a living being - Satan. I have difficulty believing that a living being exists who wasn't created by the Lord.
  20. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    It is hard for you to believe because we have been indoctrinated by church traditions that Satan was a created being or fallen angel but the Bible did not say this. I will explain more on this with Scripture because it's late and I am heading to bed.

    Thank you.