Was our sinful nature planned?

[BereanTodd]

not real? is the flesh "not real"? is the carnal mind "not real"?

I asked if anyone has ever considered it? I guess you haven't.

angelmom

If Satan is not an actual entity, then who in Job was it that appeared before God? Why are we told that our battle is "against spiritual forces of darkness", who is the "Prince of the Power of the Air" (Eph 2), who confronted Jesus in the wilderness, who will possess the antiChrist, etc, etc, etc ...

 

[Ben12]

Satan is not Lucifer.

God planned the fall and ordained it. God had a savior before had a sinner.

 

[angelmom01]

Satan is a fallen angel that roams this earth looking for those that he can devour. Go on believing whatever lies you care to. I'll stick with what the bible tells me.

Well, let's examine that.

Did the Bible tell you what you just wrote? Where is the verse that says what you just claimed (or are you "mixing" verses)?

Let's see:

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

(note: no "fallen angel" in that verse )

Now let's look to see if Satan is a "fallen angel"... I assume that you are referring to the following:

Isa 14:12-15 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

First off, the word there for Lucifer (hêylêl) is not even a proper name.

Secondly, this is a proverb taken up against whom? (let's backtrack to verse 4)

Isa 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

And what does the very next verse (after 15) say?

Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this THE MAN that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;


Now let's see what else the Bible says about the devil:

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from ~FROM THE BEGINNING~, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

So then, the bible says that the devil was a murderer and a liar FROM THE BEGINNING, that he ABODE NOT in the truth because there is NOT TRUTH in him.

So it seems that the bible is telling me something very different from what it's telling you. I think I'll go on believing what it's telling me, too.

 

[angelmom01]

If Satan is not an actual entity, then who in Job was it that appeared before God?

What does the verse say?

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

So then I would say the answer is Satan.

Why are we told that our battle is "against spiritual forces of darkness",

Because that is what Satan is:

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness ~OF THIS WORLD~, against spiritual wickedness ~IN HIGH PLACES~.

who is the "Prince of the Power of the Air" (Eph 2),

SATAN

who confronted Jesus in the wilderness,

SATAN

who will possess the antiChrist, etc, etc, etc ...

1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there ~MANY~ antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

No one is denying the existence of the devil or satan... (just asking who/what IS the devil/serpent/satan?)