Was our sinful nature planned?

[Loukuss]

Was it God's plan all along for us to sin?

 

[seanHayden]

I hope not, it would knock some serious holes in my theology.

I don't like to speculate about God, what God thinks etc. It's just annoying, you know what I mean? If not, then speculate until you do...

 

[Benedicta00]

No, it wasn't his plan, his plan was that we be made for him so that he would share his life with us.

That plan wasn't spoiled.

 

[BereanTodd]

God is all knowing (omniscient) and thus did know what would happen. Nothing has ever happened that made God say "oops, I didn't see that one coming". Notice that Eph 1 says that we were predestined before the foundations of the world ... if He knew that you and I would exist before He ever created the world, then yes He knew that sin would happen and had planned for it.

I lose the verse but I also believe that there is somewhere in the Bible that says something to the effect of Jesus being the lamb slain from the foundation, or something similar.

 

[Bubba1301]

When God provided us with the ability to choose is where we screwed up. God knew that sin would come with the our ability to choose to be with or without God. It was not like he made a mistake, but he already knew what was going to happen. With the ability to choose God or not God we can experience the depths of depression and despair, but we can also experience the heights of joy, love, and the very presence of God.... forgive me if I sound like I'm rambling, I'm rather tired at the moment.

 

[Loukuss]

God knew we would sin and He knew we would be seperated from Him. He didnt want this seperation so why allow it? My feeling here is that we do not understand the way God views time. Its hard for us to comprehend because we are in it and restricted by it.
Would others agree?

Furthermore, why let the devil slip into our world and tempt us with sin?

 

[angelmom01]

God is all knowing (omniscient) and thus did know what would happen. Nothing has ever happened that made God say "oops, I didn't see that one coming". Notice that Eph 1 says that we were predestined before the foundations of the world ... if He knew that you and I would exist before He ever created the world, then yes He knew that sin would happen and had planned for it.

I lose the verse but I also believe that there is somewhere in the Bible that says something to the effect of Jesus being the lamb slain from the foundation, or something similar.

So you believe that "predistinated" means "foreknew"? and "declared" means "predicted"?

If it wasn't until after Adam and Eve partook of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that God said "man is become as one of us to know good and evil" then did God NOT want them to be "as one of us"

How can we be "created in his image and after his likeness" if we are not "as" He is?

angelmom

 

[Optimax]

Was it God's plan all along for us to sin?

God did not plan sin, but He did plan for it.

 

[BereanTodd]

So you believe that "predistinated" means "foreknew"? and "declared" means "predicted"?

If it wasn't until after Adam and Eve partook of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that God said "man is become as one of us to know good and evil" then did God NOT want them to be "as one of us"

How can we be "created in his image and after his likeness" if we are not "as" He is?

angelmom

I don't think that the fall, and the knowledge of good and evil have anything to do with being created in His image. We are in God's image, because:

1. Like Him we have a Spirit (something that is unique among all the rest of creation - no other creature on earth is given Spirit).

2. We have free choice

3. We will live forever (eternal)

4. We have morals

... on and on and on. But it has nothing to do with the fall or knowledge of good and evil.

 

[Loukuss]

So, do people think that God wanted things to be different? Do you think that God had a better plan in mind, but since we screwed up, He made the best out of what we had?

 

[BereanTodd]

So, do people think that God wanted things to be different? Do you think that God had a better plan in mind, but since we screwed up, He made the best out of what we had?

No, I think God's plans are perfect and His will is unshakeable. What He planned is for the best, even if it is hard for us to understand or comprehend or accept that.

 

[angelmom01]

I don't think that the fall, and the knowledge of good and evil have anything to do with being created in His image. We are in God's image, because:

1. Like Him we have a Spirit (something that is unique among all the rest of creation - no other creature on earth is given Spirit).

We must be "born again" of the spirit. That doesn't happen until Christ is formed in us. And if Christ was IN Adam and Eve they would not have sinned.

2. We have free choice

We make choices, yes. They are not free from influence, just ask Pharoah or Pilate or even Paul.

3. We will live forever (eternal)

Yes, we will, but only by pataking of the TREE OF LIFE (which Adam and Eve never partook of).

4. We have morals

Do we? We are all born with high moral values?

... on and on and on. But it has nothing to do with the fall or knowledge of good and evil.

So becoming "as one of us" has nothing to do with becoming like God?

angelmom

 

[Loukuss]

No, I think God's plans are perfect and His will is unshakeable. What He planned is for the best, even if it is hard for us to understand or comprehend or accept that.

You missed my point. If we were not planned to have sinned and to have created this life seperated from Him, then God must have had another plan, right?

 

[BereanTodd]

We must be "born again" of the spirit. That doesn't happen until Christ is formed in us. And if Christ was IN Adam and Eve they would not have sinned.

All of us have a spirit, just not the Holy Spirit.

 

[BereanTodd]

You missed my point. If we were not planned to have sinned and to have created this life seperated from Him, then God must have had another plan, right?

But we were planned to have sinned, so no God did not have another plan.

 

[BereanTodd]

So becoming "as one of us" has nothing to do with becoming like God?

angelmom

Not as it relates to "being made in the immage of God". You are making that phrase tied to the fall and our sinfulness. Yet God talks about us being made in His image as a "good" thing, it is why we value human life so highly, because it is made in His image. You make "being made in the image of God" into a bad thing.

 

[angelmom01]

All of us have a spirit, just not the Holy Spirit.

Exactly, there is the spirit OF MAN and the spirit OF GOD, right?

Is the spirit of man in the image of God?

Isn't it by His giving to us ~His~ Holy Spirit that we are ~created~ in His image.

Psa 104:30 Thou ~sendest forth thy spirit~, THEY ARE CREATED: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

angelmom

 

[angelmom01]

double post

 

[angelmom01]

Not as it relates to "being made in the immage of God". You are making that phrase tied to the fall and our sinfulness. Yet God talks about us being made in His image as a "good" thing, it is why we value human life so highly, because it is made in His image. You make "being made in the image of God" into a bad thing.

Not at all, I just see the progression in it... that God is creatING man in his image.... not that he creatED man in his image.

Look at Genesis.... there is a difference and a progression... formed (Adam)... made (Eve).... CREATED (THEY).

angelmom

 

[Loukuss]

I really didnt want this moved to a dead area of the forum...