Was Noah's flood global?

[Diamond72]

But "soil" is not the same thing as "the whole world."

The global flood was at the time of Pangea 200 million years ago. That is why we find sea shells at the top of the mountains. That is why we find dinosaur remains in flood deposits. GAP is not talked about much but there is a gap of time between Noah's flood and the flood that took place at the time of Pangea. I do not know about Jeremiah 4:23 "I looked at the earth, and it was formless and empty; and at the heavens, and their light was gone. 24I looked at the mountains, and behold, they were quaking; all the hills were swaying." There really were no mountains until Pangea.

Job talks about this in 9:5. We know Job was written a long time before Moses. "5He moves mountains without their knowledge and overturns them in His anger. 6He shakes the earth from its place, so that its foundations tremble". Even God challenges Job on his understanding of this. Job 38 "18 Have you surveyed the extent of the earth? Tell Me, if you know all this."

God wants to be high and lifted up. But when man lifts himself up then the ground will shake and the mountains will quake. So we know that we need to humble ourselves before God. I have no problem with a literal Bible but we still need to explain what all of this means.

 

[tonychanyt]

There are native American accounts

reference?

 

[The Barbarian]

The global flood was at the time of Pangea 200 million years ago. That is why we find sea shells at the top of the mountains.

We have shells at the top of mountains because those mountains used to be continental shelf. They were shoved up by tectonic forces and formed mountains. We know this because it's still going on and we can measure the speed. Also, volcanic mountains like the cascades have no shells because the didn't use to be continental shelf.

 

[Diamond72]

We know this because it's still going on

I use to ski so I have been to the mountains. I did not see anything move when I was there. I just wonder if God was messing with Job when He said where were you when I formed the mountains. Tell me if you know. God’s response isn’t meant to mock or belittle Job. Instead, it highlights the vast difference between human understanding and divine wisdom.

 

[The Barbarian]

I use to ski so I have been to the mountains. I did not see anything move when I was there.

Using sensors set in bedrock, and GPS, the movement is a few centimeters a year. So that would explain it.

I just wonder if God was messing with Job when He said where were you when I formed the mountains.

Since mountains are being formed even today, I suppose He was referring to the Zagros Mountains which would be familiar to Job.

God’s response isn’t meant to mock or belittle Job. Instead, it highlights the vast difference between human understanding and divine wisdom.

It's always a bad idea to base God's power and wisdom on what man has not yet learned. Times change and we learn more,

 

[The Barbarian]

I think Noa's flood WAS global.

Not according to God's word. If it was, he would have used "tebel" (world), not eretz (land).

There are writings and symbols from all four corners of the world that describe a terrible flood, all around the same time.

So either there was one great flood, or floods have happened in places all over the world. And given that there is no evidence for "all around the same time" I'm pretty sure which.

There are native American accounts, middle and Southern American accounts, of course,

Well, having lived on an island in the Mississippi River, I'm well aware that floods are quite common in our continent.

I hear that's the case in South America as well.

 

[TheCabinetGuy]

The global flood was at the time of Pangea 200 million years ago.

This reminds me of an experiment of dating new lava on an island with current dating methods. The lava on the surface was dated to zero, which was correct, but the lava that went into the ocean was dated to millions of years old. Now if the entire earth was covered with water, then that would render how we date these rocks as utterly useless. Perhaps those rocks aren't millions of years old like we've been taught...

The lack of evidence isn't the problem, but the interpretation of the evidence.

The study mentioned in this video was a different study with the same conclusion on Mt. Saint Helens:

 

[Diamond72]

if the entire earth was covered with water, then that would render how we date these rocks as utterly useless.

60 yeas ago plate technotices was just a theory. Now it is well established fact because of the vast amount of evidence. In the book of Job God challenges us to understand HIs creation. He wants us to know. Why do you think He gives us the first chapter in Genesis one? Because He wants us to know the work He is doing.

A lot of my personal research had to do with the remains of Coelophyusis at Ghost Ranch. We find the remains of Coelophyusis all the way up the rocky mountains to Whyoming. Edwin Colbert discovered the Coelophysis quarry. Georgia O'Keeffe was a famious artist at the ranch. Also this is where Billy Crystal made the movie city slicker. There is also the fossil bone cabin.

There is also the ring of fire. They study this stuff so they can predict earthquakes.

"Coelophysis bauri" is a small meat eating dinosaur. It lived during the Triassic. Fossil bones of as many as a thousand "Coelophysis" have been found at Ghost Ranch National Natural Landmark, New Mexico.​

 

[The Barbarian]

This reminds me of an experiment of dating new lava on an island with current dating methods. The lava on the surface was dated to zero, which was correct, but the lava that went into the ocean was dated to millions of years old.

I don't know of any method that would date lava to zero. Nor would any method I know about show the same flow as zero on land but millions of years in water. Got a checkable link?

 

[Diamond72]

I don't know of any method that would date lava to zero.

The evidence for plate techno tics is so overwhelming I am surprised they can come up with any argument at all against it. Even the Bible predicts earthquakes when Jesus will return.

"On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south". Zechariah 14 4

The Arab plate, the new Jerusalem is 1500 by 1500 by 1500 miles, the entire Arab continental plate. This is the land given to Abraham and descendants. In fact there would not be a Mount of Olives if it were not for plate technotics.

"The city lies foursquare, its length the same as its width; and he measured the city with his rod, fifteen hundred miles; its length and width and height are equal." Rev 21 16

 

[Diamond72]

Now if the entire earth was covered with water,

What is your understanding of Genesis when we are told.

20The waters rose and covered the mountaintops to a depth of fifteen cubits. 21And every living thing that moved upon the earth perished—birds, livestock, animals, every creature that swarms upon the earth, and all mankind.… Genesis 7:20

The Bible has many levels of meaning. So it is understandable if your understanding of this passage is different from mine. Although I am open to different theory's and interpretations of the Bible. In fact I do what I can to explain they are all valid from their own perspective.

 

[Diamond72]

Genesis describes Noah's flood as being global.

There was a global flood, just not at the time of Noah. His flood destroyed Eden. All of this is in the Bible. The Bible is a history of Eden. This area is still under the Persian Gulf today.

In the Book of Genesis, the ark came to rest “upon the mountains of Ararat” located in the ancient kingdom of Urartu, an area that now includes Armenia and parts of eastern Turkey and Iran.

Genesis 2 10Now a river flowed out of Eden to water the garden, and from there it branched into four headwaters:

11The name of the first river is Pishon; it winds through the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12And the gold of that land is pure, and bdellium and onyx are found there.

13The name of the second river is Gihon; it winds through the whole land of Cush.

14The name of the third river is Hiddekel; it runs along the east side of Assyria.

And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

15Then the LORD God took the man and placed him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate and keep it.

 

[Vambram]

Genesis 7:1-4
Please note that in verse 4, the Lord says that He will destroy from the face of the earth all living things that He has made.

Genesis 7:17-24
These verses very clearly describe a global flood that covered the tops of the mountains and destroyed all the living creatures of the earth. Only those on Noah's Ark were spared from the Lord God's judgment upon the whole world.

 

[Diamond72]

Using sensors set in bedrock, and GPS, the movement is a few centimeters a year. So that would explain it.

My house is 70 years old. The markers are still at the four corners. How accurate do you think they are for the property lines? All three neighbors and all three property lines have a fence on them. If I were to put my fence on their property the city could make me remove it.

 

[Vambram]

Genesis 9:8-17

When the Lord God made His covenant with Noah, God promises about judging the earth. He promised that He would never again use waters and flood to destroy all flesh, all living creatures of the earth. That promise clearly indicates that the flood in Genesis 7 was a global flood.

 

[Diamond72]

Genesis 7:1-4
Please note that in verse 4, the Lord says that He will destroy from the face of the earth all living things that He has made.

As I said, this is all under the Persian Gulf right now. There are three words here we need to study. To determine what "earth" and "all living things" means and represents.

The Hebrew term הָאָ֔רֶץ (hā-’ā-reṣ) translates to “earth” or “land.” It appears frequently in the Bible, referring to the physical world, the ground, or a specific region.

The Hebrew term הָֽאֲדָמָֽה (hā-’ă-ḏā-māh) translates to “ground” or “land.” It appears frequently in the Bible, referring to various aspects:

1. Ground (General): It denotes the earth’s surface, whether tilled or yielding sustenance.
2. Specific Plot of Land: Refers to a piece of ground or a specific plot of land.
3. Earth Substance for Building: Used in the context of constructing or building.
4. Visible Surface of the Earth: Describes the ground as the visible surface of the earth.
5. Territory or Country: Refers to land or territory.
6. Whole Inhabited Earth: Used to describe the entire inhabited world.
7. City in Naphtali: Specifically mentioned in the Bible as a city1.

הָֽאֲדָמָֽה׃
hā-’ă-ḏā-māh.

הָאָ֔רֶץ
hā-’ā-reṣ,
הַיְקוּם֙
hay-qūm

 

[The Barbarian]

My house is 70 years old. The markers are still at the four corners. How accurate do you think they are for the property lines?

That's the interesting thing about plates. They remain internally consistent even if they shift with relation to each other. But they do move.

If Columbus made his trip again today, he's have to go about 10.5 meters farther.

 

[Diamond72]

That promise clearly indicates that the flood in Genesis 7 was a global flood.

Not according to my dictionary. You must be using a different dictionary than I am using. Or perhaps you are getting the word hā-’ă-ḏā-māh. confused with another word in our Bible. For me this means the lands of Adam or Eden. The Bible is very clear about what plants and animals Noah had on his ark. I do not see any kangroo from Australia or Lemars on the ARK

הָֽאֲדָמָֽה׃
hā-’ă-ḏā-māh.

 

[Diamond72]

If Columbus made his trip again today, he's have to go about 10.5 meters farther.

Was the rock of Gibraltar Pilgrim or Columbus. It has moved quite a bit. Also it is organic made up of tiny sea creatures. Of course some people believe that happened in a literal 24 hour day. My son has an amazing ability for finding fossils.

The Rock of Gibraltar is a Jurassic Limestone promontory formed from the shells of tiny sea creatures that compacted layer upon layer on the seabed approximately 200 million years ago. Between 60 and 20 million years ago, movement of the Earth’s tectonic plates uplifted these layers of rock to their present position, where they have been shaped by the sea and weather to give the iconic form we recognize today12.

 

[The Barbarian]

When the Lord God made His covenant with Noah, God promises about judging the earth. He promised that He would never again use waters and flood to destroy all flesh, all living creatures of the earth.

Specifically, the "land" (eretz), not world (tebel). This is how we know it wasn't a global flood.