Was never really a Christian

homeofmew · Mar 22, 2012

So you guys are trying to say one can loose their salvation by changing faiths?

Romans 8:38-39

New International Version (NIV)

38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

StormHawk · Mar 22, 2012

Philis said:
...The question is, if the guy who left his faith was "never really a Christian", then what does it mean to "be a Christian"? What was his life missing that would have made him a "real Christian"?

The fallacy is assuming that "his faith" is "the faith" (Jude 3, 20, Acts 2)
Most of the time it isn't! Over the centuries, what is accepted as being in the faith has changed. So, go back to the original and find God there:

A Christian is someone who has received the Holy Spirit because “Christ” or “Messiah” means “anointed one” and the anointing is the Holy Spirit:-
“ . . . you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” (Romans 8v9)

This began at Pentecost, and continues the same today:
“ . . . they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. . . having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he has shed forth this, which you now SEE and HEAR. . . For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to ALL that are afar off, even AS MANY AS the Lord our God shall call.” (Acts 2v4, 33, 39)

Note: "speaking in tongues" is an unlearned prayer language that we need God to lead us in -
1 Corinthians 14:2, 4, 14-18; Romans 8:26

Watching these video clips will help you believe:
2011 RF Convention

Coming to a meeting may result in you receiving what we have all received!

briareos · Mar 22, 2012

homeofmew said:
So you guys are trying to say one can loose their salvation by changing faiths?

Romans 8:38-39

New International Version (NIV)

38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

yes I am saying that, because Jesus loving you is not equal to you being saved and because

Galatians 5.1-7
With freedom did Christ set us free: stand fast therefore, and be not entangled again in a yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that, if ye receive circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing. Yea, I testify again to every man that receiveth circumcision, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Ye are severed from Christ, ye would be justified by the law; ye are fallen away from grace... Ye were running well; who hindered you that ye should not obey the truth?

briareos · Mar 22, 2012

Words like "severed from Christ", "fallen away from grace" mean something... what do you think those words mean?

JoeyArnold · Mar 22, 2012

child0fg0d88 said:
We can let our relationship with God die.

There's a difference between our relationship with God & our identity in Christ.

JoeyArnold · Mar 22, 2012

briareos said:
Words like "severed from Christ", "fallen away from grace" mean something.

There's a difference between falling from Justification & leaving Sanctification.

briareos · Mar 23, 2012

explain and please include being severed from Christ

JoeyArnold · Mar 23, 2012

briareos said:
explain and please include being severed from Christ

When the Bible talks about our relationship with Christ, that growing process, that sanctification progression, that maturing process, it describes it in the context of our human lives while we are alive on earth. When Israel fell into slavery & captivity they never ceased being of God's Chosen. Who we are doesn't change. Love is not suppose to be conditional like that.

When the Bible talks about backsliding it also talks about God punishes us for that through chastising us even to the extent of ending our earthly lives. Some have misinterpret God's ending our lives to mean God sending us to Hell.

briareos · Mar 23, 2012

I think you and others continually mistake love for salvation and fail to comprehend the implication of words like severed and fallen away and that Paul said they would be obligated to the law (Christians aren't obligated to the law), as Raze said, Paul used words like "shipwreck" of your faith.

I think you are so committed to and excited about an idea that you simply fail to comprehend what you actually read.

I don't think you're stupid and it's not my place to set you straight and I don't know everything so, it's ok that we disagree, I appreciate you sharing with me.

homeofmew · Mar 24, 2012

ok This is why i am having an issue.

I always thought being a christian was like being adopted, as I am Adopted in real life. Lets say I walk away from my parents (adoptive parents) that doesnt mean I am anyless emotionally or legally bound to them.

Second of all God is totally different he isn't bound by time or space being that if you repented of your sin and meant it. Then for some reason you wanted to go to another faith that doesn't mean you turn on God. For example I was an Agnostic for a while because of all the nonsence I endured with Christians and saying i wasn't a "good enough Christian" for liking stuff like pokemon or taekwondo. Also being introverted doesn't help and I have a hard time being in large groups Ie Church.

Being Christian is a choice, not doing X, but many people want to make it about doing all the stuff so its not just "fire insurance".

Let's pretend that Heaven and hell in the end shouldn't concern anybody because even if there wasn't an eternal punishment we still hurt someone by doing sometime wrong on a moral human standard.

briareos · Mar 24, 2012

Commit yourself to understanding and believing what the book says.

I understand how you feel and I can appreciate it.

Dead2Sin · Jul 7, 2012

Anybody who excepts Christ is a "real Christian" if you want to put a label on it. According to Romans 10:9,10.. I think what some ppl refer to as a "real Christian" is if they are walking in the light of what the word of god says and letting that rule in their outside life. If someone changes they're "faith" so to speak then they've missed it all together I'd say. Christianity isn't about a religion or "faith" as some call it but an actually relationship. Does this answer your question or am I out in left field as far as understanding what Your asking?

IisJustMe · Jul 7, 2012

briareos said:
Words like "severed from Christ", "fallen away from grace" mean something... what do you think those words mean?

But they don't mean "lost salvation." Fellowship is broken when believers sin monstrously. Salvation is not. Repentance, even from the absolute worst of sins, restores fellowship and forgiveness.

JoeyArnold · Jul 7, 2012

IisJustMe said:
But they don't mean "lost salvation." Fellowship is broken when believers sin monstrously. Salvation is not. Repentance, even from the absolute worst of sins, restores fellowship and forgiveness.

I agree with your words, IisJustMe: "Fellowship is broken when believers sin monstrously. Salvation is not." Because salvation occurs outside of time & beyond our dimensions.

briareos · Jul 7, 2012

I personally don't think that is a reasonable take of those words at all but that's fine, I'm not here to debate or quarrel over these sort of things. It think the bible is pretty clear that apostasy is very possible, though it is not a mistake, it is a choice.

JoeyArnold · Jul 7, 2012

briareos said:
bible is pretty clear that apostasy is very possible

what is possible? apostasy means falling away. so falling away from what? the bible says we cannot fall away from salvation. the bible says we can fall away from earthly fellowship with christ and God. you are right. the bible is clear about apostasy. that is possible. but too often we get the two confused. the bible talks about both. otherwise the bible would contradict itself. the bible says we cannot ever escape salvation. we are in His hands. John 10:28-31. Romans 8:38-39. we become new creatures. God promises to perfect each newly born creature until the day that they are perfected. salvation is more a promise and less something that we must maintain. if you believe that you can lose salvation then you believe in a works salvation and not in ephesians 2:7-10. you can lose the fellowship however, 1 John 1:7-9

Sketcher · Jul 8, 2012

Christians are elect, and the elect are overcomers.

JoeyArnold · Jul 8, 2012

Sketcher said:
Christians are elect, and the elect are overcomers.

i agree with your words, Sketcher, election occurs outside of time, Ep.2:10

briareos · Jul 8, 2012

JoeyArnold said:
what is possible? apostasy means falling away. so falling away from what? the bible says we cannot fall away from salvation. the bible says we can fall away from earthly fellowship with christ and God. you are right. the bible is clear about apostasy. that is possible. but too often we get the two confused. the bible talks about both. otherwise the bible would contradict itself. the bible says we cannot ever escape salvation. we are in His hands. John 10:28-31. Romans 8:38-39. we become new creatures. God promises to perfect each newly born creature until the day that they are perfected. salvation is more a promise and less something that we must maintain. if you believe that you can lose salvation then you believe in a works salvation and not in ephesians 2:7-10. you can lose the fellowship however, 1 John 1:7-9

Well I am glad you are well studied, wonderful. I believe the bible teaches something very different but he will guide and protect and shelter us both.

Godbless you.

Shane R · Jul 8, 2012

Consider the case of King Saul. He was God's anointed, one who even experienced the prophetic measure of the Spirit. He also went through a many years long struggle with disobedience and repentance. Ultimately, his end is recorded as follows in 1 Sam 28 & 31; perhaps some can see an allegory in this:

He inquired of the LORD, but the LORD did not answer him in dreams or by the Urim or by the prophets. Saul then said to his servants, "Find me a woman who is a medium, so I can go and consult her."

"I'm in serious trouble," replied Saul. "The Philistines are fighting against me and God has turned away from me. He doesn't answer me anymore either through the prophets or through dreams. So I've called on you to tell me what I should do."
Samuel answered, "Since the LORD has turned away from you and has become your enemy, why are you asking me? The LORD has done exactly what He said through me: The LORD has torn the kingship out of your hand and given it to your neighbor David. You did not obey the LORD and did not carry out his burning anger against Amalek; therefore the LORD has done this to you today. The LORD will also hand Israel over to the Philistines along with you. Tomorrow you and your sons will be with me (descended to the dead), and the LORD will hand Israel's army over to the Philistines.

Then Saul took his sword and fell on it.

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