As I have heard how the 25th of December as birthday for Jesus originated, I call that quite speculation. As I have heard, one has decided for the 25th of March as the day of the conception, because one thought Jesus would be born at the same time at which he also died. That is speculation. Then they thought that Jesus was born exactly 9 months later. That is also speculation.
You use the word Pascha to refer to Passover. But EO use this word to refer to Easter/Resurrection Sunday. This is confusing as the word itself could also refer to Good Friday. I think there was a debate about the meaning in the first centuries to which Eusebius of Caesarea refers in his Church History.Our Lord was conceived on Pascha (March 25th)
That means nothing. The New Testament calls it a Feast. The event is a significant part of Jewish history and therefore Christian History.It is not a biblical feast because it does not appear in the Old Testament.
The Feast of Dedication was founded by Judas Maccabaeus. Judas Maccabaeus lived after the completion of the Old Testament.
There were different views in the early church on which day Jesus was born.
Even if Jesus was conceived on March 25. It is nevertheless pure speculation to set the date of birth on December 25.
The same is said by those who prefer a birth in Tishrei. They also use the argument of the timeline and the courses of priests to support their view. If this is so accurate, why are there different views?
As I have heard how the 25th of December as birthday for Jesus originated, I call that quite speculation. As I have heard, one has decided for the 25th of March as the day of the conception, because one thought Jesus would be born at the same time at which he also died. That is speculation. Then they thought that Jesus was born exactly 9 months later. That is also speculation.
Why would Jesus have been born on an extra-biblical festival when the Bible says He is the fulfillment of the Old Testament? His death took place on Passover, his resurrection took place on Firstfruits, and Pentecost took place on Shavout. These are all biblical Jewish festivals. The Feast of Dedication, even though it occurs in the New Testament, is not a biblical one.That means nothing. The New Testament calls it a Feast. The event is a significant part of Jewish history and therefore Christian History.
Well, let's look at what you just said. Your saying that the Feast of Dedication is not biblical but yet your Bible does show it. So that is a falsehood that your claiming.Why would Jesus have been born on an extra-biblical festival when the Bible says He is the fulfillment of the Old Testament? His death took place on Passover, his resurrection took place on Firstfruits, and Pentecost took place on Shavout. These are all biblical Jewish festivals. The Feast of Dedication, even though it occurs in the New Testament, is not a biblical one.
I believe that Jesus was born in springtime because it is the time when the lambs for the Passover sacrifices were born, since they had to be one year old according to the Torah, and because springtime is the time when the tent of God was erected. Jesus is the true tent of God. The commandment to build the tent took place around the summer of last year. So the tent took about 9/10 months to be completed. This would harmonize with an average pregnancy.
Hanukkah is not mentioned in the Old Testament so it is not a festival of the Torah. It is a festival that originated outside the Bible.Well, let's look at what you just said. Your saying that the Feast of Dedication is not biblical but yet your Bible does show it. So that is a falsehood that your claiming.
This is wrong. The unified opinion of the Jews and also Christians disagree with you. The so-called Lunar Sabbath has been debunked many times.I think you need to understand the priestly cycles. There were 24 of them. They served from sabbath to sabbath. The Sabbaths were according to the Lunar Calendar just like the Feast day are. Therefore, each lunar month the Sabbath falls on the 8th, 15th, 22nd, and the 29th of the month.
That is your view. Rick Lanser (MDiv degree), on the other hand, comes to the conclusion that Jesus was born in spring, on the basis of Abijah's division.Now we know in Luke it says that Zacharias served during the course of Abia, but we also know it was specifically the day of Atonement. So we simply need to go back in time and see when was the course of Abia serving during the Day of Atonement during the birth period. We know the period is from around 6 BC to 1 AD by most accounts. So the question is - What year in that timeframe was the course of Abia serving during the Day of Atonement. The answer is 4 BC. We know this because the Talmud says that the FIRST Course was serving during the destruction of the temple in 70 AD which was the 9th of Av (5th Lunar month). So Abia is the 8th course. We can count back through each year moving a course per year and find that in 4 BC, Abia would be serving the 2nd week of Tishri (7th lunar month). Then we can go by the narrative in Luke and see that if Elizabeth conceived somewhere right after the Day of Atonement or the end of the Month then Mary conceived somewhere around the Spring Equinox. This means she would have given birth around November-December which is exactly when the Feast of Dedication occurs.
He's wrong. And it will become obvious as to why if you look carefully enough.Hanukkah is not mentioned in the Old Testament so it is not a festival of the Torah. It is a festival that originated outside the Bible.
This is wrong. The unified opinion of the Jews and also Christians disagree with you. The so-called Lunar Sabbath has been debunked many times.
That is your view. Rick Lanser (MDiv degree), on the other hand, comes to the conclusion that Jesus was born in spring, on the basis of Abijah's division.
Zacharias is performed the services of the Day of Atonement.
There is no reason to think that Zacharias served on the Day of Atonement. He was not the high priest.Now we know in Luke it says that Zacharias served during the course of Abia, but we also know it was specifically the day of Atonement.
Since Herod died in the spring of 4 BC, Jesus was born in 5 BC or earlier. When the implications of the slaughter of the Bethlehem innocents two years old and under are accounted for, it points to the birth of Jesus taking place around 6 BC.The answer is 4 BC.
According to your calculation, John was born in Jul 3 BC.We can count back through each year moving a course per year and find that in 4 BC, Abia would be serving the 2nd week of Tishri (7th lunar month).
According to your calculation, Jesus was born in Dec 3 BC.Mary conceived somewhere around the Spring Equinox. This means she would have given birth around November-December which is exactly when the Feast of Dedication occurs.
No, not really. In a regular lunar year there are 50 wks + 4 days on average. In a leap year there are 54 weeks + 6 days on average.There is always going to be 49 lunar weeks in a year (regardless of whether it is a pregnant or leap year).
There is no reason to think that Zacharias served on the Day of Atonement. He was not the high priest.
Since Herod died in the spring of 4 BC, Jesus was born in 5 BC or earlier. When the implications of the slaughter of the Bethlehem innocents two years old and under are accounted for, it points to the birth of Jesus taking place around 6 BC.
According to your calculation, John was born in Jul 3 BC.
According to your calculation, Jesus was born in Dec 3 BC.
No, not really. In a regular lunar year there are 50 wks + 4 days on average. In a leap year there are 54 weeks + 6 days on average.
This does not work with Herod's time of death, either. You need to start from the beginning without assuming that Zecharias served on the Day of Atonement. Keep in mind that Jesus was likely born in 6 BC.
If this is what you consider "evidence," I can't really discuss it with you.Just because it calls him a Priest instead of High Priest doesn't mean that he isn't the High Priest. However Luke is showing that Zacharias is performing the duties on the Day of Atonement. You will see that Luke records that multitude it outside praying when he is to offer the incense. This is because at the Day of Atonement the congregation would be outside praying while the incense is offered which is an offering of their prayers. Further more Luke says that the Multitude wondered at how long he tarried inside.
I read about this hypothesis before but the evidence is very weak.I don't believe Herod died in 4 BC and I believe the Eclipse that is spoken of by Josephus is the one that occurred on Jan 10th of 1 BC.
I have no idea where you got this from!The Jewish week was such that each Lunar Month had 4 weeks. The first day (new moon) of the month was not counted in the reckoning of the weeks. Therefore, each Sabbath was on the 8th, 15th,22nd and 29th of the lunar month. This always gives you 49 weeks in a year.
If this is what you consider "evidence," I can't really discuss it with you.
I read about this hypothesis before but the evidence is very weak.
I have no idea where you got this from!
In the Stromata, Clement also said, "from the destruction of Jerusalem to the death of Commodus, a hundred and twenty-eight years, ten months, and three days." Commodus died on 31 December 192. This gives the date of the destruction of Jerusalem as Feb 64 AD!!But Clement of Alexandria nails it by telling us it is 194 years 1 month and 13 days from the death of Commodus. That puts it right at the beginning of the Feast of Dedication in 3 BC.
According to the Jewish Encyclopedia, "At an early date, however, this intimate connection between the week and the moon must have been dissolved, the chief cause of the fixed week of seven days being, in all probability, the predominance of the seventh day as the Sabbath (but see Meinhold, "Sabbat und Woche im O. T." Göttingen, 1905, according to whom Sabbath, originally only the full-moon day and the week are independent of each other)."Regarding the moon, you simply can look at the writings of Philo. He shows that the Sabbaths were per the phases of the moon. But the Jewish Encyclopedia also shows that the Sabbaths were based on the moon at one point. You need to study it more and you will come to the conclusion. Lunar Sabbaths weekly Sabbath — One Yahweh
Well not really, Clement is quoting others and not himself when he comes up with these. In fact, he knows some of the quotes are in contradiction to others that he is quoting. The point is one of the ones quotes does nail that date of the Feast of Dedication in 3 BC. So if Herod had already died then why would someone even have even shared it such that Clement quoted it.In the Stromata, Clement also said, "from the destruction of Jerusalem to the death of Commodus, a hundred and twenty-eight years, ten months, and three days." Commodus died on 31 December 192. This gives the date of the destruction of Jerusalem as Feb 64 AD!!
And he also wrote, "from the time that He suffered till the destruction of Jerusalem are forty-two years and three months." This gives the date of the crucifixion of Christ as Nov 21 AD!!!
Of course, all this is irrelevant nonsense!!!
According to the Jewish Encyclopedia, "At an early date, however, this intimate connection between the week and the moon must have been dissolved, the chief cause of the fixed week of seven days being, in all probability, the predominance of the seventh day as the Sabbath (but see Meinhold, "Sabbat und Woche im O. T." Göttingen, 1905, according to whom Sabbath, originally only the full-moon day and the week are independent of each other)."
And according to Wikipedia:
"A continuous seven-day cycle that runs throughout history without reference to the phases of the moon was first practiced in Judaism, dated to the 6th century BCE at the latest.[15][16]
So, this issue is really irrelevant for figuring out Jesus' birthday.
- Zerubavel (1989), p. 11.
- ^ Jump up to: a b c d Senn, Frank C. (1997). Christian Liturgy: Catholic and Evangelical. Fortress Press. ISBN 978-0-8006-2726-3."
Let's forget about the year and look at what Clement said about the date. He wrote, "they say that it took place in the twenty-eighth year of Augustus, and in the twenty-fifth day of Pachon." And he wrote, "others say that he was born on the twenty-fourth or twenty-fifth of Pharmuthi." The Egyptian month Pachon is in May, and Pharamuthi corresponds to April.Well not really, Clement is quoting others and not himself when he comes up with these. In fact, he knows some of the quotes are in contradiction to others that he is quoting. The point is one of the ones quotes does nail that date of the Feast of Dedication in 3 BC. So if Herod had already died then why would someone even have even shared it such that Clement quoted it.
I'm not sure what case you refer to.IF that was the case then explain how Ezekial could have laid on his side for 430 days if the Jews were not observing a lunar calendar. I don't believe you can.
Let's forget about the year and look at what Clement said about the date. He wrote, "they say that it took place in the twenty-eighth year of Augustus, and in the twenty-fifth day of Pachon." And he wrote, "others say that he was born on the twenty-fourth or twenty-fifth of Pharmuthi." The Egyptian month Pachon is in May, and Pharamuthi corresponds to April.
I'm not sure what case you refer to.
Let's forget about the year and look at what Clement said about the date. He wrote, "they say that it took place in the twenty-eighth year of Augustus, and in the twenty-fifth day of Pachon." And he wrote, "others say that he was born on the twenty-fourth or twenty-fifth of Pharmuthi." The Egyptian month Pachon is in May, and Pharamuthi corresponds to April.
I'm not sure what case you refer to.
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