Was Jesus a meanie?

[Chesterton]

I missed it apparently. The fig tree seems unrelated to the temple. Please show me what you mean.

Contemporary Judaism had become unfruitful.

 

[drich0150]

Contemporary Judaism had become unfruitful.

I agree, The tree was just an illustration of what was going to happen or what had happened to the Jews.

This was not a rage filled act just to spite a tree, which is what I understand a "meanie" to be.

 

[ebia]

When mark puts one story in the middle of another like that he is relating them - he is telling you by doing that that the stories explain each other.

 

[MattRose]

When mark puts one story in the middle of another like that he is relating them - he is telling you by doing that that the stories explain each other.

Well I sorta got that, but thanks for clarifying. I really did think you were grasping at straws as there isn't an obvious link unless you knew that the fig tree was a symbol for the nation of Israel. I didn't.

Ok, I've stopped giving trees dirty looks. I also kept the receipt for the chainsaw and so I'm good there.

 

[ebia]

Well I sorta got that, but thanks for clarifying. I really did think you were grasping at straws as there isn't an obvious link unless you knew that the fig tree was a symbol for the nation of Israel. I didn't.

Ok, I've stopped giving trees dirty looks. I also kept the receipt for the chainsaw and so I'm good there.

Around here I suspect the parable would have ended with the fig tree, like my peach, killed from the inside out by termites.

 

[ElijahW]

When mark puts one story in the middle of another like that he is relating them - he is telling you by doing that that the stories explain each other.

So the reason that the fig tree in that verse is usually associated with Judaism/Israel is because it is next to the part of the story where he goes to the temple? Not because there is precedence of a fig tree being representative of that nation?

One of the other reasons I would have a problem with that understandings is Christianity and Jesus Christ himself is a fruit of Judaism.

 

[ebia]

So the reason that the fig tree in that verse is usually associated with Judaism/Israel is because it is next to the part of the story where he goes to the temple? Not because there is precedence of a fig tree being representative of that nation?

why do you put that as an either or? But the fig tree for Israel is not a strong motif, and here it is refined to the Temple and associated leadership.

One of the other reasons I would have a problem with that understandings is Christianity and Jesus Christ himself is a fruit of Judaism.

the judgement is specifically on the Temple

 

[ElijahW]

why do you put that as an either or? But the fig tree for Israel is not a strong motif, and here it is refined to the Temple and associated leadership.

the judgement is specifically on the Temple

I don't know what the either or bit is about.

And I'm sorry but I'm unclear on what you mean by the Temple. He doesn't have a problem with the Temple itself in the previous section but the practices of profit going on within. If you are saying that the fig tree is somehow related to the "associated leadership" within the Temple then I can see that as a possible interpretation. That's inline with the overall message of getting rid of of earthly rulers but him condemning modern Judaism or the Temple as being fruitless in general needs clarification on what exactly he is condemning and considers barren.

 

[ebia]

I don't know what the either or bit is about.

And I'm sorry but I'm unclear on what you mean by the Temple. He doesn't have a problem with the Temple itself in the previous section but the practices of profit going on within. If you are saying that the fig tree is somehow related to the "associated leadership" within the Temple then I can see that as a possible interpretation. That's inline with the overall message of getting rid of of earthly rulers but him condemning modern Judaism or the Temple as being fruitless in general needs clarification on what exactly he is condemning and considers barren.

The problem is deeper than just "practices of profit", but a whole system that's lost it's way. Instead of being a beacon of light to the nations, it's trying to keep the light for itself. Instead of serving the people it's serving the interests of the ones who control it. When he turns over the tables and drives out the animals he does more than make a statement about profiteering, he brings (momentarily) the whole edifice to a standstill (and also makes a claim to kingship) And it is on that whole thing - building, high priest, ... all the way down the supporting structures, that the judgement anticipated twice here will come properly in AD70.

 

[ElijahW]

The problem is deeper than just "practices of profit", but a whole system that's lost it's way. Instead of being a beacon of light to the nations, it's trying to keep the light for itself. Instead of serving the people it's serving the interests of the ones who control it. When he turns over the tables and drives out the animals he does more than make a statement about profiteering, he brings (momentarily) the whole edifice to a standstill (and also makes a claim to kingship) And it is on that whole thing - building, high priest, ... all the way down the supporting structures, that the judgement anticipated twice here will come properly in AD70.

I’m not trying to be overly difficult but I’m still not sure what you think the complaint is that Jesus is expressing with the fig tree. Expressions like “lost it’s way”, “beacon of light” and “serving the people” would need to be explained because I’m still not sure what you think the reform/complaint is against the Temple.

Regardless of the complaints Jesus had with the practices at the Temple or the concept of a Temple itself, calling it fruitless doesn’t make a lot of sense since he would be considered fruit from the Temple. He’s not going to call it my father’s house one second and then call it barren and fruitless the next.

The Temple interpretation is in context with the rest of what is going on, while the Buddha knock, is out of left field but there is precedence for the fig tree being associated with the Buddha’s enlightenment and something Jesus would be looked at to have made a comment on back then. Like I said if the fig tree was associated with rulers or some other ideology it would make more sense than calling his own movement or place of worship, fruitless.

 

[Chesterton]

"He withers the tree, then, in order to chasten men. ... The fig tree means the synagogue of the Jews, which has only leaves, that is, the visible letter of the law, but not the fruit of the Spirit. But also every man who gives himself over to the sweetness of the present life is likened to a fig tree, who has no spiritual fruit to give to Jesus who is hungry for such fruit, but only leaves, that is, temporal appearances which fall away and are gone." Blessed Theophylact