Was It "Unchristian" To Take The Land From Native Americans??.....

[rturner76]

Th US was not "entirely" Protestant, but the constitution was based on Protestant principles of freedom of conscience, which the RCC completely tries to remove. There is no freedom of choice in a catholic world. May were burned at the stake just for not joining the RCC.

Is that why Catholics signed on to the Declaration of Independence? Who says there is no 'freedom of choice' in a Catholic world. What does that even mean? Nobody was burned at the stake for 'not joining' the RCC. It was the Protestants who did the Salem witch trials, on the other hand. That's documented.

From my understanding 7th Day people believe the Catholic Church is Anti-Christ so I wouldn't expect much in the way of changing what he believes about that.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Not just 7th day'rs.
Martin Luther , Charles Chiniquoy, 1000's of other priests who left it, Most all reformers for quite a while, and of course people whose families were slaughtered throughout history.....

From my understanding 7th Day people believe the Catholic Church is Anti-Christ so I wouldn't expect much in the way of changing what he believes about that.

 

[masmpg]

Is that why Catholics signed on to the Declaration of Independence? Who says there is no 'freedom of choice' in a Catholic world. What does that even mean? Nobody was burned at the stake for 'not joining' the RCC. It was the Protestants who did the Salem witch trials, on the other hand. That's documented.

Please do the research before commenting. Read here and you will find that only one catholic did sign the DOI. That does not prove they had any say in the building of USA. In fact the jesuits, who were banned from every country in the world at one time or another, were not even allowed into the USA at first, atleast not until lord baltimore donated the land that is now known as washington DC. The jesuits were even banned bythe pope for a time because of their treachery.

https://www.stpeterslist.com/2939/t...f-independence-8-thoughts-on-charles-carroll/

And before telling me that I am wrong please research other material besides the very biased catholic sources. Here are a couple that are very reputable which will enlighten you if you would step off the bias of catholic dogma. I use to be there myself.

http://reformation.org/wylie2.html

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/41253

 

[rturner76]

This is known as the "Doctrine of Discovery". It was laid out in a series of papal bulls during the 15th and 16th centuries. It said in essence that should a Christian discover a new land where there are no Christians then he can claim that land for hos sovereign. If the inhabitants resist conversion then he is entitled to make war and them to kill or enslave them. In a decision by the Supreme Court (1818) this doctrine was written into US law and formed the basis for the wholesale breaking of treaties and the attempted genocide of the Indians during the 19th century. Your post is largely correct except that it was not just British Christians involved.

When I read things like this,it makes me wonder how this could be the church I chose to join. How can I just shrug off shuch brutality and say that it was just how it wasin those days?

The law being adopted by the USA explains a lot. I always wondered how they were able to time and time again to make and break treaty after treaty. This is exactly how we know this settlement was NOT sanctioned by God. If it were, there would have been no need for the Satanic tactics of deception, double-talk, and coercion, not to mention all the rapes, theft, and murder. It wasn't even done in the name of God but in the name of Progress.

 

[masmpg]

From my understanding 7th Day people believe the Catholic Church is Anti-Christ so I wouldn't expect much in the way of changing what he believes about that.

Personally I believe there is no such thing as "THE antichrist" which most of professed Christendom are trying to guess who it is. The bible teaches that the catholic church through its hierarchy is the beast that comes up out of the sea in revelation 13. Daniel proves that the catholic church state run world will be in power until Jesus comes to take His children home with Him. Look at the reference I sent to see what the pope has in store for the world when he takes power again. It is very close to reality. ALL mainstream denominations have joined the ecumenical movement which is led by the vatican, through their misinformation specialists. To deceive the world into blindly uniting with a church with a treacherous past is quite a miracle, but it did not come from God. God has allowed satan to perform miracles in the site of men to cause them to study their bibles, but sadly to say most will not.

 

[rturner76]

Not just 7th day'rs.
Martin Luther , Charles Chiniquoy, 1000's of other priests who left it, Most all reformers for quite a while, and of course people whose families were slaughtered throughout history.....

I get that but I think for the 7th day people it is a part of their actual religious dogma, not from being abused. But that's off topic anyway

 

[rturner76]

Personally I believe there is no such thing as "THE antichrist" which most of professed Christendom are trying to guess who it is. The bible teaches that the catholic church through its hierarchy is the beast that comes up out of the sea in revelation 13. Daniel proves that the catholic church state run world will be in power until Jesus comes to take His children home with Him. Look at the reference I sent to see what the pope has in store for the world when he takes power again. It is very close to reality. ALL mainstream denominations have joined the ecumenical movement which is led by the vatican, through their misinformation specialists. To deceive the world into blindly uniting with a church with a treacherous past is quite a miracle, but it did not come from God. God has allowed satan to perform miracles in the site of men to cause them to study their bibles, but sadly to say most will not.

Yeah, I heard that from another one of you guys before. Hard to believe all the other churches in the world got it wrong but you got it right. Kinda sounds like a cult tome but what do I know. I only follow the religion founded by Christ given to St Peter and handed down to today. Hospitals, colleges, schools, orphanages, homeless shelters, and addiction rehab centers all over the world helping millions of people. How many 7th day homeless shelters? By their fruits you will know them

That doesn't erase the atrocities of their past. The only justification I can think of is that it was a more savage world back then. I don't think they would have the order to conquer new lands in this day and age. The church no longer believes in the death penalty in just about all cases. They don't forcr people to convert any more either.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I get that but I think for the 7th day people it is a part of their actual religious dogma, not from being abused. But that's off topic anyway

It is totally and pertinent background on topic,
for those who seek YHWH'S KINGDOM.
Just not 'popular' here or most places.

 

[masmpg]

Yeah, I heard that from another one of you guys before. Hard to believe all the other churches in the world got it wrong but you got it right. Kinda sounds like a cult tome but what do I know. I only follow the religion founded by Christ given to St Peter and handed down to today. Hospitals, colleges, schools, orphanages, homeless shelters, and addiction rehab centers all over the world helping millions of people. How many 7th day homeless shelters? By their fruits you will know them

That doesn't erase the atrocities of their past. The only justification I can think of is that it was a more savage world back then. I don't think they would have the order to conquer new lands in this day and age. The church no longer believes in the death penalty in just about all cases. They don't forcr people to convert any more either.

If you would do the math the SDA denomination is second to the RCC in beneficent organizations. Being low man on the totem pole in regards to numbers that speaks volumes. Our little church has done more than the catholic church PER CAPITA ever could do.

I will say this the majority has never been right. 12 disciples followed Jesus out of the millions He helped while alive. You can follow the majority all you want to I choose to follow God's holy word the KJV bible. The truth is never popular.

 

[masmpg]

From my understanding 7th Day people believe the Catholic Church is Anti-Christ so I wouldn't expect much in the way of changing what he believes about that.

Most or the Protestant reformers believed and taught that the pope is the beast of revelation 13. The Protestant world took a u turn somewhere along the way.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I choose to follow God's holy word

It was wrong in so many ways
for white man
to kill off himself,
to kill off native americans,
to kill off eskimos,
to kill off whatever other peoples they did. (right up to TODAY)

No one who follows God's Holy Word would do that as a manner of life,
nor support those who do nor even congratulate them.

This is a simple test of who in history(and TODAY) was truthful, and who was untruthful.

 

[masmpg]

It was wrong in so many ways
for white man
to kill off himself,
to kill off native americans,
to kill off eskimos,
to kill off whatever other peoples they did. (right up to TODAY)

No one who follows God's Holy Word would do that as a manner of life,
nor support those who do nor even congratulate them.

This is a simple test of who in history(and TODAY) was truthful, and who was untruthful.

Tragic that humanity stoops to this level, BUT what's more is that they profess to do it in "love"????

"I KILL YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS" That just doesn't sound right to me, but I guess it does to some.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

On judgment day, then it is perfect justice.

UNTIL THEN, NO !

It is IMPOSSIBLE TO BE "HARMLESS AS DOVES" and even say, let alone do, that abomination!

"I KILL YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS" That just doesn't sound right to me, but I guess it does to some.

 

[rturner76]

If you would do the math the SDA denomination is second to the RCC in beneficent organizations. Being low man on the totem pole in regards to numbers that speaks volumes. Our little church has done more than the catholic church PER CAPITA ever could do.

I will say this the majority has never been right. 12 disciples followed Jesus out of the millions He helped while alive. You can follow the majority all you want to I choose to follow God's holy word the KJV bible. The truth is never popular.

I spent some time looking at some 7th Day information. Besides some pretty kooky stuff surrounding the year 1844. I didn't find too much that lead me to believe it was still a cult. There are millions of members, colleges, schools, and one of the best charities out there so aside from some strange dogma, I don't see anything wrong with them.

Let's see if I got this right: According to William Miller,1844 marked the beginning of a divine pre-advent judgment called "the cleansing of the sanctuary". It was described by the church's prophet and pioneer Ellen G. White 2,300 days

Now this is where it gets like Woah! What makes William Miller and Ellen White more credible then the apostles who founded the Catholic church? The same church that finalized the Biblical cannon (in other words put together the books of the Bible). The same church that brought Christianity to western Europe, who then brought Christianity to the USA where William Miller made his unguided interpretations.

All things being equal 7th Day brings people to Christ and helps people. There is nothing wrong with that. Keep doing it! Just be careful who you hold up as a prophet.


Many of the Europeans in the new world especially in South and middle America said to the natives that they were messengers from God and were heavenly people but were they?

 

[masmpg]

I spent some time looking at some 7th Day information. Besides some pretty kooky stuff surrounding the year 1844. I didn't find too much that lead me to believe it was still a cult. There are millions of members, colleges, schools, and one of the best charities out there so aside from some strange dogma, I don't see anything wrong with them.

Let's see if I got this right: According to William Miller,1844 marked the beginning of a divine pre-advent judgment called "the cleansing of the sanctuary". It was described by the church's prophet and pioneer Ellen G. White 2,300 days

Now this is where it gets like Woah! What makes William Miller and Ellen White more credible then the apostles who founded the Catholic church? The same church that finalized the Biblical cannon (in other words put together the books of the Bible). The same church that brought Christianity to western Europe, who then brought Christianity to the USA where William Miller made his unguided interpretations.

All things being equal 7th Day brings people to Christ and helps people. There is nothing wrong with that. Keep doing it! Just be careful who you hold up as a prophet.


Many of the Europeans in the new world especially in South and middle America said to the natives that they were messengers from God and were heavenly people but were they?

Christianity is an ongoing act of God. Virtually all denominations have ended. By that I mean they have taken their traditional dogmas and placed them above God's word. If you go to the catholic church and tell them indulgences are a sin you would be excommunicated without question. Their traditional dogmas are so ingrained into that denomination that they will not change. That is what happened to the reformers like Huss, Luther, Wycliffe, Tyndale ETC...That goes for all mainstream denominations. In fact we need to get ahead of that curve if we are to be saved in the end. We are to look to the bible alone for salvation because there is no man that can save us.

As for William Miller, there were no seventh day adventists while he was preaching about 1844. There also were many preachers in Europe preaching the same thing as him at the same time. God did move on a people. The SDA denomination does not hide the fact that they made a very huge mistake like most other denominations which have done the same things.

The book of hebrews does mention Jesus going into the most holy place of the sanctuary, and it also mentions Jesus as our high priest. So naturally when you put two and two together you come up with logical conclusions. If Jesus is our high priest, and we know He is, and He did go into the most holy place the simple logic would be to study what the job was for the high priest in the most holy place and you will know why He went in there. The high priest went into the most holy place once per year on the day of atonement to remove all the sins that were collected their throughout the year, and to remove them by placing them on the anti-typical scapegoat (typically satan himself in the end) and sending them far from the camp, symbolizing removing them as far from the east is from the west. This is cleansing the sanctuary, and it did happen every year until Jesus came. The jews still might celebrate this but it has no meaning because the type (the lamb) has met the antitype (Jesus).

As for the canon of the bible, well inspiration from God is inspiration no matter who God gives it to, and to think that it takes someone special, or high and mighty to receive inspiration is way out. Out of all the bible characters we read about there were only 5 that were well off and or learned. Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, and Paul. Of these David, who shouldn't be on this list because he was a shepherd boy, but he was also a murderer like Moses and Paul. If they would have stood in front of judges today they would have been, well let's see, David would have gotten 15 to life for conspiracy to commit murder, Moses would have gotten life for killing a soldier, and Paul would have gotten the death penalty for mass murder. And what about the lowest of the low Gideon, or Ruth, or Ester??? Ellen white had a third grade education and wrote 150,000 pages of very heart warming books and periodicals. All it takes is to read the little book Steps to Christ to see how she loved the Lord. To bash her writings without reading any of them, I am not insinuating that you are, but many do, is just not Christian.

I joined the SDA denomination because of the forth commandment. Nobody came to my door to invite me. I tried every denomination, beginning with catholic. I was an altar boy and attended catholic schools. By the time I got to the SDA church I had a lot of questions that all the other denominations didn't even dent. Boy was I excited to find out that the bible means what it says, and all the verses that the other denominations told me to compromise or forget about. . .Well after attending SDA church for a while I was getting leary of the references to ellen white all the time, so I started reading her books and writings to find error. I critically read whatever I felt inquisitive about. I was determined to prove the SDA denomination wrong, but instead of that I was converted. The third grader ellen white shows her love for Jesus throughout her writings so well that I fell madly in love with Jesus. From that moment on I wanted to yell it from the roof tops! Ellen white said that if we studied our bibles like we should she would not have had to write the 150k pages she did. She also stated that she is the lessor light to the greater light and discouraged people from quoting her writings. I have been an SDA Christian for over 30 years and will never be ashamed of it.

 

[rturner76]

Christianity is an ongoing act of God. Virtually all denominations have ended. By that I mean they have taken their traditional dogmas and placed them above God's word. If you go to the catholic church and tell them indulgences are a sin you would be excommunicated without question. Their traditional dogmas are so ingrained into that denomination that they will not change. That is what happened to the reformers like Huss, Luther, Wycliffe, Tyndale ETC...That goes for all mainstream denominations. In fact we need to get ahead of that curve if we are to be saved in the end. We are to look to the bible alone for salvation because there is no man that can save us.

As for William Miller, there were no seventh day adventists while he was preaching about 1844. There also were many preachers in Europe preaching the same thing as him at the same time. God did move on a people. The SDA denomination does not hide the fact that they made a very huge mistake like most other denominations which have done the same things.

The book of hebrews does mention Jesus going into the most holy place of the sanctuary, and it also mentions Jesus as our high priest. So naturally when you put two and two together you come up with logical conclusions. If Jesus is our high priest, and we know He is, and He did go into the most holy place the simple logic would be to study what the job was for the high priest in the most holy place and you will know why He went in there. The high priest went into the most holy place once per year on the day of atonement to remove all the sins that were collected their throughout the year, and to remove them by placing them on the anti-typical scapegoat (typically satan himself in the end) and sending them far from the camp, symbolizing removing them as far from the east is from the west. This is cleansing the sanctuary, and it did happen every year until Jesus came. The jews still might celebrate this but it has no meaning because the type (the lamb) has met the antitype (Jesus).

As for the canon of the bible, well inspiration from God is inspiration no matter who God gives it to, and to think that it takes someone special, or high and mighty to receive inspiration is way out. Out of all the bible characters we read about there were only 5 that were well off and or learned. Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, and Paul. Of these David, who shouldn't be on this list because he was a shepherd boy, but he was also a murderer like Moses and Paul. If they would have stood in front of judges today they would have been, well let's see, David would have gotten 15 to life for conspiracy to commit murder, Moses would have gotten life for killing a soldier, and Paul would have gotten the death penalty for mass murder. And what about the lowest of the low Gideon, or Ruth, or Ester??? Ellen white had a third grade education and wrote 150,000 pages of very heart warming books and periodicals. All it takes is to read the little book Steps to Christ to see how she loved the Lord. To bash her writings without reading any of them, I am not insinuating that you are, but many do, is just not Christian.

I joined the SDA denomination because of the forth commandment. Nobody came to my door to invite me. I tried every denomination, beginning with catholic. I was an altar boy and attended catholic schools. By the time I got to the SDA church I had a lot of questions that all the other denominations didn't even dent. Boy was I excited to find out that the bible means what it says, and all the verses that the other denominations told me to compromise or forget about. . .Well after attending SDA church for a while I was getting leary of the references to ellen white all the time, so I started reading her books and writings to find error. I critically read whatever I felt inquisitive about. I was determined to prove the SDA denomination wrong, but instead of that I was converted. The third grader ellen white shows her love for Jesus throughout her writings so well that I fell madly in love with Jesus. From that moment on I wanted to yell it from the roof tops! Ellen white said that if we studied our bibles like we should she would not have had to write the 150k pages she did. She also stated that she is the lessor light to the greater light and discouraged people from quoting her writings. I have been an SDA Christian for over 30 years and will never be ashamed of it.

You should have no reason to be ashamed. I think the 7th Day Advent Church has emerged as a legitimate congregation. What turns me off is the teaching that all other churches are basically the enemy or antichrist when you are a less than 200 year old church seems a little cult talk really EVERY church is joining with the Catholic church to destroy you? Plus it says in the Bible nobody but the Father knows when the day of judgement is coming and this church seems to think it can predict when it will happen and who will be saved. Who can presume to know this information if it was not even given to Jesus' disciples? The Remnant? I see no meekness or humility in this eschatology just presumption but acknowledging that Christ is the savior is Christian.

 

[masmpg]

You should have no reason to be ashamed. I think the 7th Day Advent Church has emerged as a legitimate congregation. What turns me off is the teaching that all other churches are basically the enemy or antichrist when you are a less than 200 year old church seems a little cult talk really EVERY church is joining with the Catholic church to destroy you? Plus it says in the Bible nobody but the Father knows when the day of judgement is coming and this church seems to think it can predict when it will happen and who will be saved. Who can presume to know this information if it was not even given to Jesus' disciples? The Remnant? I see no meekness or humility in this eschatology just presumption but acknowledging that Christ is the savior is Christian.

How does the SDA denomination teach that all other churches are the enemy? We teach that God's people will come out of every other church to comprise God's final remnant church before Jesus comes to take us home. Personally I believe that there will be more catholics in heaven than any other single denomination. Only those who are living up to all the light the Lord sheds on their path will be saved. To deny any convictions sent by the Comforter will deny our entrance into heaven. The Comforter (Holy Spirit) was sent to convict or reprove us of sin and righteousness and judgment. I judge no one, our conscience does it for us, and we might be able to hide convictions from our fellow brethren and sisters, but we cannot hide them from God because He is the One that sends them. There is one sure way to know absolutely if convictions are from God or satan, because both can convict, one inwardly, God through the Comforter, and one outwardly through our senses. In Isaiah:8:20: "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." This is the sure way to tell if we are being convicted by God or not. If our convictions are not 100% in agreement with God's holy word the KJV bible we are not hearing from God. We can let no compromise sway this principle in the least. Remember the sin that condemned mankind to a sinful nature was very small in our eyes, biting a piece of fruit, but to God disobedience in any form is major.

Where do you get the idea that we know the hour of His coming? We admitted our error and have never tried to set a time since. In fact when William miller was preaching before 1844 there were no SDAs. The SDA denomination was not established until the 1860s. Those who followed Miller were considered Millerites. Even though the SDA denomination along with Ellen White did define the "great disappointment" of 1844 as it should have been does not make our definition, which coincides with the bible, wrong. Daniel:8:14: "And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed." This is biblical and something did happen in this time period. Studying throughout Hebrews will prove that the SDA conclusion of this prophecy is true. I explained it somewhat above, about the day of atonement.

 

[LSOJ]

This may seem like a silly question or a silly topic for a post, but I have not seen anyone else ask the question, or bring up the subject, or (hopefully) start a discussion thread about it......

I feel this question, as well as this subject, is a two-edged sword, so to speak.....

On the one hand, we can claim that it was "unchristianlike" and wrong and a terrible injustice for Europeans to come over to North and South America and take all the land from the Native Americans and reduce them all to minority status......

But, on the other hand, we could claim that, had Europeans not dominated the native peoples of North and South America, nations like the U.S., Canada, Brazil and the rest would not be a great and as prosperous as they are today.....

Nor as "Christian" as they are.......

However, I am not taking sides, one way or the other, on this subject......

I am simply asking was it "unchristian" for European settlers to have taken the land away from Native Americans??

TL;DR the whole world is unchristian, and nobody is 'in the right'.

I'll flat out tell you, America is not a 'Christian' nation, that's the church. America is a nation of men that is in the world, part of the world, and was founded by conquest. Its hands are bloody with the blood of all sorts of people, and it is un-Christian. And anyone who goes talking about a nation being a 'Christian' nation may as well be preaching a patriotic Jesus. Let me tell you, when people wanted to make Jesus a king, He left that area. The Church is people who are members of a heavenly kingdom, and God is sovereign over all. America, for its ten commandments and Christian-ish heritage is not a Christian nation.

In fact, being fixated on America can be a distraction from following Jesus. Jesus + social justice, or Jesus + patriotism, or Jesus + anything makes Jesus less than Jesus. Pure, unadulterated Jesus is the best Jesus. And what's really un-Christian is a person holding a gun in one hand and a Bible in the other.

And nobody has any right to any block of earth. God gives it to whomever He pleases. Earth is His. The notion of 'my land' or 'my money' or 'my things' is fake. Job's attitude is better: "The Lord gives and the Lord takes away, blessed be the Lord."

Every nation has warred and had blood on their hands, and oppressed minorities. The pattern repeats. Many nations rose up in the past and conquered large swaths of the world, and the pattern repeats, increasing, leading up to the Man of Sin, the Antichrist. If you want a judgement from God, everyone is guilty, but nobody is so far off that Christ cannot save them. Talking about 'who injusticed who' in school just breeds contention and bitterness, and raises a bunch of special snowflake social justice warriors brainwashed to fight for whatever political cause the establishment desires. All it is is a bunch of finger pointing, digging up the past, and demanding reparation for hurts that cannot be undone. They'd be better off to forgive and forget, but they don't teach that in school.

And these special snowflakes that protest everything? They want you to believe what they believe, and want you to be angry about what they are angry about, and they can't stand it when someone has an opposing or different view. they want to have pride in this or pride in that. I tell you they could use far less pride.

In conclusion,

I don't even look at 'social justice', it is a massive distraction, a bunch of people looking for reasons to be angry. America will get what it deserves, it is loaded up with sin. The only way to escape the judgement of the world is by faith in Christ. To the extent you focus on these matters, you are distracted from Christ.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The only way to escape the judgement of the world is by faith in Christ.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Please do the research before commenting. Read here and you will find that only one catholic did sign the DOI. That does not prove they had any say in the building of USA. In fact the jesuits, who were banned from every country in the world at one time or another, were not even allowed into the USA at first, atleast not until lord baltimore donated the land that is now known as washington DC. The jesuits were even banned bythe pope for a time because of their treachery.

https://www.stpeterslist.com/2939/t...f-independence-8-thoughts-on-charles-carroll/

And before telling me that I am wrong please research other material besides the very biased catholic sources. Here are a couple that are very reputable which will enlighten you if you would step off the bias of catholic dogma. I use to be there myself.

http://reformation.org/wylie2.html

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/41253

My friend, I used to be on your side, myself, so better watch who you're pointing fingers at. I was, most of my life, anti-Catholic.
Secondly, one Catholic signing the Declaration of Independence proves that Catholics believe in freedom of choice. Thirdly, what have the Jesuits to do with anything I said? And where did I say, anywhere in the post you replied to, that you were wrong? I asked you questions. Of course, you don't answer them, because they cut to the quick.
On Charles Carroll: http://www.catholiceducation.org/en...olic-founding-fathers-the-carroll-family.html