Was It "Unchristian" To Take The Land From Native Americans??.....

[Messy]

Yes it was unchristian. Now give it back.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Yes it was unchristian. Now give it back.

Chief Joseph said no one can own the land.

How can we take land from people who didn't own it? How can we give back land we don't own?

 

[Messy]

Chief Joseph said no one can own the land.

How can we take land from people who didn't own it? How can we give back land we don't own?

You can't and you you didn't personally take it from them, so yeah it was bad but nothing the people living there now can do something about.

 

[fatherjimparker]

<<I am simply asking was it "unchristian" for European settlers to have taken the land away from Native Americans??>>

Is genocide "un-Christian"? Of course? Why would you have to ask?

It has also been the norm for "civilized" man since (probably) the beginning. ("The grass is always greener..." ) Consider the period at the end of the Roman Empire; wave after wave of Germanic tribes came through northern Europe and completely displaced, slaughtered, plundered, enslaved, etc. the Celts who had controlled northern Europe from Britain to the Black Sea prior to the Roman invasions.

The Romans supplanted the Greeks who replaced the Persians who replaced the Babylonians who replaced the Assyrians etc. etc. etc.

The Europeans came to the Americas seeking wealth and found it inhabited by stone-age people whom they were able to brush aside (or slaughter) because of the European's more advanced technology. (The Indians [what they currently call themselves] had not yet invented the wheel.)

It's what fallen man does.

And being in church does not make a person a Christian any more than a mouse being in the cookie jar makes it a cookie. (according to Corrie Tenboom's uncle)

 

[Norbert L]

This may seem like a silly question or a silly topic for a post, but I have not seen anyone else ask the question, or bring up the subject, or (hopefully) start a discussion thread about it......

I feel this question, as well as this subject, is a two-edged sword, so to speak.....

On the one hand, we can claim that it was "unchristianlike" and wrong and a terrible injustice for Europeans to come over to North and South America and take all the land from the Native Americans and reduce them all to minority status......

But, on the other hand, we could claim that, had Europeans not dominated the native peoples of North and South America, nations like the U.S., Canada, Brazil and the rest would not be a great and as prosperous as they are today.....

Nor as "Christian" as they are.......

However, I am not taking sides, one way or the other, on this subject......

I am simply asking was it "unchristian" for European settlers to have taken the land away from Native Americans??

It is not unchristian for any nation to have property rights. The problem is how to draw property lines in the sight of the King of Heaven? And you know what even muddles this reasoning of property ownership more? The fact that today we have an altogether alien morality compared to that time in history. During that time there was a state of UNDER POPULATION in North America, it's cultural pressure has to answer to the King of Heaven; we today can't superimpose our morality of overpopulation as its's judge.

But more importantly there was no pillar of cloud by day nor a pillar of fire by night to guide either side of this national conflict that occurred in NA. VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY Romans 12:19

We today, be it European or Native American have to live and do our best with the consequences of the decisions made by our forefathers. Exodus 20:12

 

[goldenboy]

True enough, but it was quite unChristian to kill most of them in the process.

We didn't 'kill most of them in the process". Of course, there were conflicts/wars/massacres. The very first massacre among the New World inhabitants was Indian on White massacre. Imagine: a group of people trying to find a land where they could live in peace, being slaughtered by American Indians...
Go to youtube and check out Stephen Molyneux, and he's got a video that shows that the American Indians' demise was consistent with a race's natural attrition rate.

 

[goldenboy]

nm

 

[com7fy8]

@Tim Myers Yes, I think it was not Christian > I do not think Jesus had people attacking native Americans and taking over the lands which their nations were using.

It is not Christian to covet what someone else has.

And it is not Christian to kill people in order to get what they have had and have not taken from you.

And if a sovereign group of people have a certain land, it is proper to have diplomatic relations and agreements about if and how you may go onto and use their land.

And our Apostle Paul says we are to live "peaceably" with all people, as much as it depends on us > Romans 12:18 < raiding native villages and killing mothers and children, and then taking control of the land they are using, is not living peaceably!! And slaughtering the buffalo which the native peoples so needed was not living peaceably with them.

So, no I do not think what the United States government and certain citizens did was Christian. And I do not think that anyone who knew Jesus and His love was involved in that.

 

[Albion]

Yes, I think it was not Christian > I do not think Jesus had people attacking native Americans and taking over the lands which their nations were using.

It is not Christian to covet what someone else has.

God did give all the land as far as the Euphrates River to the Hebrews, though, and that was populated by other than his chosen people.

 

[com7fy8]

Yes @Albion And I already have understood and considered this. But that was before the New Testament started; and we all are equal because of Jesus and His shed blood on the cross >

"For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation," (Ephesians 2:14)

And when the Israelites did war things in God's way, they easily and swiftly and efficiently defeated enemy peoples. And they did things as a nation, like a family, not only sending certain men to do dirty work away from accountability and supervision of godly and mature leadership.

But I do understand how when the Jews were going against God, He in His all-management had enemy God-less people attack Israel and take their land and even take them into slavery. So, if the native Americans were not godly and honoring Jesus . . . like a number of Jews now aren't . . . ones without Christ are not safe from being conquered and enslaved. But this conquering and enslaving is not what we in Jesus do, I understand >

"Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us." (Romans 8:37)

From this, I consider that we get more than what conquerors in this world can get, by means of methods superior to how this world's conquerors do things. Our real promised land is not in this world, but ours is the "new earth" which we read about in 2 Peter 3:13 and Revelation 21:1.

Also . . . my personal consideration > ones are claiming that the United States used to be a Christian nation, and that if we returned to how things were, then things would become so better. But if the United States had been a truly Christian nation, why hasn't it already produced what is better than we have now?

I think the really Christian one nation of God is the whole body of Jesus, including all of us who obey how God rules us in His own peace > "in one body" (Colossians 3:15) < our government is the theocracy of how our Heavenly Father corrects us (Hebrews 12:4-11) and personally rules each of us in His own peace > Colossians 3:15. But a number of people in America have been ruled by fear in themselves, including about native Americans. Ones have not loved native peoples as themselves, and "fear of death" is slavery to Satan > Hebrews 2:14-15 > not how God rules us!

Also . . . we in Jesus get judged "first" > 1 Peter 4:17. And we love our enemies. In our history of war making, I have not been clearly taught anything about how the United States did its warring based on loving her enemies and first judging herself and getting God's correction for herself, "first", before dealing with other peoples. And in churches, even, and on TV broadcasts, I have heard call for prayer for "our soldiers", but not prayer of caring for other countries' peoples as well as we love ourselves . . . loving our neighbor as ourselves, in prayer.

So, instead of me criticizing others, this means I myself need to submit to how God evaluates and corrects me, "first".

 

[Albion]

Yes @Albion And I already have understood and considered this. But that was before the New Testament started; and we all are equal because of Jesus and His shed blood on the cross >

It always makes a weak argument to seize upon a general principle like that and try to apply it to a very specific event in history. But arguing that God has changed his mind is probably a weaker one still.

 

[SkyWriting]

We didn't 'kill most of them in the process". Of course, there were conflicts/wars/massacres. The very first massacre among the New World inhabitants was Indian on White massacre. Imagine: a group of people trying to find a land where they could live in peace, being slaughtered by American Indians...
Go to youtube and check out Stephen Molyneux, and he's got a video that shows that the American Indians' demise was consistent with a race's natural attrition rate.

I checked, he never makes his point in print where it can be analyzed.

 

[ewq1938]

Was it wrong that the tribes of Israel traveled to a distant land that was occupied by people and claimed it as theirs via divine inspiration?

 

[FaithfulPilgrim]

It certainly was unchristlike, and while the Americas may be prosperous today and be a bastion for religious freedom, we did tarnish the image of Christianity to the Native Americans.

I once visited a Lakota reservation for a church mission trip and the pastor of the camp was a full-blooded Lakota who had plenty of experience with life outside of the reservation.

He used to hate God and saw Christianity as the "White Man's religion", but he eventually found Jesus and God called him back to the reservation to witness to his people.

I eavesdropped on a conversation between a white staff member and an immigrant family from the Philippines, and the white man said that the fact that they aren't white could be an advantage as the Native Americans would be curious as why a non-whites are practicing "a white man's religion" and God can use their skin color as a tool to win the Native Americans to
Christ.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

I note with interest and a bit of amusement, no one has answered any of my questions raised in post #34. I can understand why, of course.

For any Christians involved in this discussion, the question is 'Was the will of God served by such actions?'

Another question to be considered is "Was the conquest of the North American continent a political and socio-economic decision, or a 'religious' decision?"

 

[FaithfulPilgrim]

I note with interest and a bit of amusement, no one has answered any of my questions raised in post #34. I can understand why, of course.

For any Christians involved in this discussion, the question is 'Was the will of God served by such actions?'

Another question to be considered is "Was the conquest of the North American continent a political and socio-economic decision, or a 'religious' decision?"

We cannot fully know the will of God as He often acts in mysterious ways.

The conquest was probably more socio-economic and political, but religion was used as a "justification."

 

[Archie the Preacher]

We cannot fully know the will of God as He often acts in mysterious ways.

Nor apparently, can we reasonably observe the flow of history. He said rather sadly...

The conquest was probably more socio-economic and political...

Without question.

...but religion was used as a "justification."

Not really. It was initially used as an attack on Christianity. And the rather knee-jerk, non-thinking nitwits who present themselves as 'spokesmen for God' bite it and started chewing.

Let's see if anyone has the 'inclusive' intellect to address the other questions I presented.

 

[com7fy8]

@Archie the Preacher I think I see the point of your questions. I understand that my identity is with Jesus, not with any country or its history. By joining with Jesus, now I have His track record . . . like how if you leave a losing team and join the Patriots, now you are a winner, and even a Super Bowl champion, just by switching to the winning team

Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world > John 18:36 < or else, His disciples would have fought to deliver Him from the Jews. And, likewise, I can see that Jesus does not have us, His disciples, fighting in order to promote Him. So, any military action and the combative actions used by settlers to take Indian land, I can see, was not the action of Christian people.

It possibly was not even civilized . . . considering how if any country's political leaders or military leaders did something like this to people of another sovereign country, today, they would be considered war criminals.

And, of course, not all Americans were doing that. So, I can see that you can not blame the United States for what not all Americans did and approved. But there have been evil people who somehow get power and use it badly, even now. But this does not really mean the whole country is in on this.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE="Tim Myers, post: 57321126, member: 280936"]This may seem like a silly question or a silly topic for a post, but I have not seen anyone else ask the question, or bring up the subject, or (hopefully) start a discussion thread about it......

I feel this question, as well as this subject, is a two-edged sword, so to speak.....

On the one hand, we can claim that it was "unchristianlike" and wrong and a terrible injustice for Europeans to come over to North and South America and take all the land from the Native Americans and reduce them all to minority status......

But, on the other hand, we could claim that, had Europeans not dominated the native peoples of North and South America, nations like the U.S., Canada, Brazil and the rest would not be a great and as prosperous as they are today.....

Nor as "Christian" as they are.......

However, I am not taking sides, one way or the other, on this subject......

I am simply asking was it "unchristian" for European settlers to have taken the land away from Native Americans??QUOTE

Yes.

 

[ewq1938]

Yes.

I disagree.

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

God ordains all powers/governments which means he wanted the nation of America to be created.