And before we do that, we have to have three witnesses to support any accusation.That was specifically given for dealing with church leaders who are supposed to know better. Is she a church leader?
Do you think it would be possible to set aside your anger and have a calmer discussion with your mother, with less defending and more listening? She's called Ephesians 5 "crap", and you've told her she's going to hell, and neither of those is the start of a productive conversation.I question from time to time if she's even Christian and it feels like I'm coming closer and closer to a realization that she's not and it makes me so sad. Did I make a mistake or should I stick to my guns and tell her that I'm not sorry for defending God's word and that I'm sick of her speaking evil of it (even though she claims to be Christian!).
And what good did that do?Well, he wasn't preaching on the meaning beyond saying that the Bible says wives submit to your husbands, period. Also, this isn't new to her. She's made these kinds of comments in the past. I've quoted to her clear scriptures in response about the roles of husband and wife and she just brushes it off and has called it wrong. I mean, this isn't the only time. Like I also pointed out, she's mocked/said it was the writings of men (if I can remember right) the story of Job and how he was in the belly of the sea creature as just one example of something she says are just the mere writings of men in the OT. At this point, I feel like telling her that you need to stop blaspheming God. It's not a joke and this is serious. If I didn't care for my mother, then I wouldn't even be telling her it's wrong. I'd do what the world does and go right along with the evil deed.
Jesus summed up all the law with: love God and love people. We are told to "walk in love" which means live a life that reflects the principles of love. Part of love is that it does not rejoice in iniquity (sin) but it is also patient (some translations say: longsuffering) and kind. That means, we are supposed to be kind in the midst of long suffering. We cannot say we are walking in love if we embrace one principle of love while violating another. I started a thread with much more detail on love yesterday if you are interested.What about how the Bible says to rebuke sharply that others may fear? What about what the Bible says about how bad blasphemy is? And, ok, then I was thinking about apologizing for saying that she was going to hell. I'd then tell her that I don't know if you are or not because that's between you and God if you really believe. Then I'd say that blasphemy is not funny and that if you continue to do it, then it will damage our relationship and that I may have to leave and not talk to her anymore if you're going to continue to speak badly of God's word. I mean, if I tell her I'm sorry for telling her that what she said is worthy of hell, then I might as well be apologizing for telling her that blasphemy is something God takes so seriously that people were EXECUTED for it at one time in our religion, during the Old Covenant.
Here's the bottom line. I refuse to apologize for telling her that you can't blaspheme and that it was horribly wrong and that I'm tired of it. Beyond that, what wiggle room should I have and what should I say? I do plan to say that of course I love you mother (definitely). I'm sorry for being so hasty (maybe), but I can't take this anymore and you can't keep blaspheming like that (definitely) or something like that.
Scripture says that women cannot have leadership positions in the church, from what I've read, so no... Really? The KJV says flat out this, 1 Timothy 5:20, "Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear." That isn't the only place either; other parts of the Bible say that we are to rebuke too, such as Titus 1:13, "This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith" and 2 Timothy 4:2, "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine" and Titus 2:15, "These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee."That was specifically given for dealing with church leaders who are supposed to know better. Is she a church leader?
What good did Jesus rebuking the Pharisees do? What good does rebuking anyone do who makes statements this heinous do?And what good did that do?
So my mother claims to be Christian, but she recently said that a certain part of the Bible was wrong. This isn't the first time that she's said some seriously wrong things about the scripture. However, this time I told her, as soon as she said it, that she was going to hell (it was kind of spontaneous because I was fed up with her making these little jabs at scripture all the same). Then I told her that I was serious and she responded with a "Wow...". Then, I told her, "Well, let me rephrase that. What you said is worthy of hell" and then I questioned her about if she even believes at all, saying because Christians will not go to hell. I question from time to time if she's even Christian and it feels like I'm coming closer and closer to a realization that she's not and it makes me so sad. Did I make a mistake or should I stick to my guns and tell her that I'm not sorry for defending God's word and that I'm sick of her speaking evil of it (even though she claims to be Christian!).
The "them" refers to the elders in verse 19.Scripture says that women cannot have leadership positions in the church, from what I've read, so no... Really? The KJV says flat out this, 1 Timothy 5:20, "Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear."
Titus and Timothy both had a platform as church leaders with which to exercise authority. Are you one of her church leaders?That isn't the only place either; other parts of the Bible say that we are to rebuke too, such as Titus 1:13, "This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith" and 2 Timothy 4:2, "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine" and Titus 2:15, "These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee."
Good question. What were you trying to achieve by rebuking her the way you did?What good did Jesus rebuking the Pharisees do? What good does rebuking anyone do who makes statements this heinous do?
Timothy and Titus are both directed toward leadership and how a church should be run. We need to be in a position where we have demonstrable fruit in our lives before we start rebuking others on how to live theirs. And even then we need to have some level of authority and permission to speak into their lives. Otherwise Matt 7:1 comes into play.Scripture says that women cannot have leadership positions in the church, from what I've read, so no... Really? The KJV says flat out this, 1 Timothy 5:20, "Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear." That isn't the only place either; other parts of the Bible say that we are to rebuke too, such as Titus 1:13, "This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith" and 2 Timothy 4:2, "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine" and Titus 2:15, "These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee."
What we need to look at here is, who is Paul writing to? It was Timothy who was a bishop and therefore had leadership authority over the churches in his region. Titus was also a church leader with oversight authority. This is important, because the question is, if Paul gave these instructions to those with leadership authority in the churches, does that mean that any Tom, Dick, or Harry, without a leadership role, do the same?Scripture says that women cannot have leadership positions in the church, from what I've read, so no... Really? The KJV says flat out this, 1 Timothy 5:20, "Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear." That isn't the only place either; other parts of the Bible say that we are to rebuke too, such as Titus 1:13, "This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith" and 2 Timothy 4:2, "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine" and Titus 2:15, "These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee."
Why is it not respectful to tell your parents that you're doing something so bad that God commanded people to be put to death for it in the OT? I admit that I probably messed up telling her that she's going to hell, because, if you believe on Jesus, you won't. However, I mean, but if she's not Christian, then am I wrong!?!? What kind of Christian rejects what God says in the Bible and says that the word of God is evil!? I have tried to do this in patience before, MANY TIMES. However, it's been YEARS where she's done this over and over and over.
As for how I should of gone about it, what about rebuking sharply? What about how it says in Luke 12:53, "The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law"?
So my mother claims to be Christian, but she recently said that a certain part of the Bible was wrong. This isn't the first time that she's said some seriously wrong things about the scripture. However, this time I told her, as soon as she said it, that she was going to hell (it was kind of spontaneous because I was fed up with her making these little jabs at scripture all the same). Then I told her that I was serious and she responded with a "Wow...". Then, I told her, "Well, let me rephrase that. What you said is worthy of hell" and then I questioned her about if she even believes at all, saying because Christians will not go to hell. I question from time to time if she's even Christian and it feels like I'm coming closer and closer to a realization that she's not and it makes me so sad. Did I make a mistake or should I stick to my guns and tell her that I'm not sorry for defending God's word and that I'm sick of her speaking evil of it (even though she claims to be Christian!).
Your temper and pride is the issue, not your mother. You asked for advice and promptly attacked the advice given? Sounds to me, like anyone who struggles with anger, you are eager to find a “righteous” outlet for your emotions."Nice work"... Wow, just wow. Thanks for your "help". I'm wrong for trying to defend the Bible against her blasphemy that she still refuses to recant? No, she's losing spiritual influence with ME. The more she blasphemes and speaks evil of dignities, the more she's driving me away. I have tried to show her! However, she just doesn't care man. This is why I finally got frustrated with her making ANOTHER jab at God and said you know what... and the rest is history.
Are you ready to take the rebuke? Or just give it?Scripture says that women cannot have leadership positions in the church, from what I've read, so no... Really? The KJV says flat out this, 1 Timothy 5:20, "Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear." That isn't the only place either; other parts of the Bible say that we are to rebuke too, such as Titus 1:13, "This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith" and 2 Timothy 4:2, "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine" and Titus 2:15, "These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee."
So my mother claims to be Christian, but she recently said that a certain part of the Bible was wrong. This isn't the first time that she's said some seriously wrong things about the scripture. However, this time I told her, as soon as she said it, that she was going to hell (it was kind of spontaneous because I was fed up with her making these little jabs at scripture all the same).
Then I told her that I was serious and she responded with a "Wow...".
Then, I told her, "Well, let me rephrase that. What you said is worthy of hell"
I question from time to time if she's even Christian and it feels like I'm coming closer and closer to a realization that she's not
Did I make a mistake or should I stick to my guns and tell her that I'm not sorry for defending God's word and that I'm sick of her speaking evil of it (even though she claims to be Christian!).
Well then who's it about? If it's not about me and my mother, then I don't know who it's about then. She blasphemes again. I get mad and tell her that what she did was wrong.
There's really nothing more to say. The Bible says that part of the role of a wife is to submit to her husband.
A preacher in a video was referencing this kind of scripture and she overheard it and then she essentially called that crap
Are you saying that parts of the word of God are wrong?" Then she said something to the effect of, "Yes, the parts that command that are."
There isn't anymore detail that I can think of unless I start to go into all the other times she's said things, such as the OT is not important and that parts of it are just writings by mere men and things like that.
So my mother claims to be Christian, but she recently said that a certain part of the Bible was wrong. This isn't the first time that she's said some seriously wrong things about the scripture. However, this time I told her, as soon as she said it, that she was going to hell (it was kind of spontaneous because I was fed up with her making these little jabs at scripture all the same). Then I told her that I was serious and she responded with a "Wow...". Then, I told her, "Well, let me rephrase that. What you said is worthy of hell" and then I questioned her about if she even believes at all, saying because Christians will not go to hell. I question from time to time if she's even Christian and it feels like I'm coming closer and closer to a realization that she's not and it makes me so sad. Did I make a mistake or should I stick to my guns and tell her that I'm not sorry for defending God's word and that I'm sick of her speaking evil of it (even though she claims to be Christian!).
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