Was Hilter a Christian or not?

[PlumTea]

I don't think it would be a stretch to say Hitler wasn't Christian, not because he makes us look bad, but because Jesus said that those that loved him would keep his commands. How could a bible believing christian persecute a nationality, specifically the one that brought forth the messiah. Plus, God said those that bless thee (Israel) I will bless & those that curse thee I will curse. I don't think he had any fear of God at all.

I think this thread proves what an excellent type of the antichrist Hitler is. The antichrist will at first look to be a decent man, but his fruit will show his true colors.

 

[srev2004]

So according to you, Christianity isn't the biggest religion anymore? Because you denied 75% of Christians as Christians. Even though a Hindu doesn't accept Christ as the only salvation he is much more peaceful than a Christian. How many times have the Hindu's been slow sufferers of Islamic, and then Christian imperialism. For a thousand years, this is the biggest halaucast in human history. Something insane like 50 million Hindu's were killed, but do you see them hold any grudges today? But all these peace loving people are going to hell, this is the intolerance that I see in the followers of Christ. Is God a follower of humanism, because jealously is a purely human emoting in my opinion? If God is all knowing, God would know the circumstances of each Human and judge him accordingly. If that's the case there would be more Hindu's in heaven than Christians, if you measure by labels. Even today India, a Hindu majority country is dying through a thousand cuts of tolerance, because it doesn't strike back at Pakistan, a Muslim majority country which countinously sends militants to India. What do you have to say about this?

 

[elijah115]

This is what I call white washing Christian history by seperating Christianity and it's intolerance because it is profitable to do so in this day and age.

The church supported beheading native americans because they were heathens. It is still racism for killing people according to a certain categeory such as Idolatory. What gives Christians the right to kill people regardless of their beliefs? This in my opinion is pure fear and hatred for anything non Christian and hence Christianity is severely racist. It doesn't even come close to the tolerance of Eastern Religions. Especially when it comes to non violence.

When the Church teaches non violence, it's to fellow Christians only, and not to the heathens and idolators right. Because based on secular history I can justify how intolerant Christianity is.

This is the point: christians are not taught to punish non-Christians for sinning. The term '"Vengeance is Mine" says the Lord.' comes to mind from Deutronomy 32:35.

DT 32:35 It is mine to avenge; I will repay.
In due time their foot will slip;
their day of disaster is near
and their doom rushes upon them."

We believe God will take his own vengeance on his enemies. We are not commanded to adminster it in any form, because we are not worthy to be considered sinless by our own efforts. It is in our right to believe idolatry is wrong, just as Hindus have the right to call christianity adharmic.

To kill people because of any reason, other than lawful civil justice is wrong - any christian will agree with that. But I find your determination to blame Christianity for the selfish action of colonial Europe surprising. Does this mean following Santana Dharma is to blame for Kashmir? (I am applying your logic here.)

 

[Nahienga]

Is it possible you were raised near a racist area, and you've just come into contact with mainstream christianity through this "real church" you mentioned? Real christians are recognised by their loving behaviour, not only their profession. There is no real christian on planet Earth that thinks Hitler was a christian.

There is no sane and honest non-christian on planet Earth that thinks Hitler was a christian. There is a saying in christianity that whoever doesn't love his neighbour (enemies included) and claims to follow the will of God isn't a christian (1 John 4:20). Hitler was such a person - a non-christian.

So Nahienga, can you understand why most of us are surprised that you consider Hitler a christian? It seems you don't know what the bible says, what Jesus and his apostles taught, or what history records.

When I ask you to give sources, I presume to have the wisdom to choose a few good sources - like one or two respectable sources for each of your claims. I don't think it's too much to ask if you're making unaccepted claims. We don't need to revive Hitler to know he wasn't a christian -the fact that he killed 6 million jews because of their ethnicity tells us He was not at all a christian.

No, I haven't grown up in a racist territory. Why?

Hmm... Yeah, you're right. Maybe I should follow the bible. I mean, it only tells you to kill when it's right to kill. Like when nobody's looking (Exodus 2:11-2:12).
And why not buy some souls too. It must be OK since even priests do that (Exodus 22:11).
But oh I forgot, my eyes are handicapped, and I'm not miss Universe, so I can't come to visit god's house or altar (Leviticus 21:16 - 21:20).

The bible is so unclear that you can interpret the texts in it to anything you like. It's full of contradictions. You just have to choose what to follow, and I think Hitler choosed the more violent and injustice parts.

Hitler would probably not call you a christian.

 

[elijah115]

So you saying Hitler killed 6000000 Jew's because he thougt's they was worshipping idolatery, or angered God or something!

I don't recall saying that - at all. Hitler wasn't a christian. In addition Hitler wasn't an ancient Hebrew. In fact I don't recall making any reference to Hitler by mentioning Numbers 31. Could I ask you a question, what does the term "Numbers 31" mean to you?

 

[srev2004]

This is the point: christians are not taught to punish non-Christians for sinning. The term '"Vengeance is Mine" says the Lord.' comes to mind from Deutronomy 32:35.

DT 32:35 It is mine to avenge; I will repay.
In due time their foot will slip;
their day of disaster is near
and their doom rushes upon them."

We believe God will take his own vengeance on his enemies. We are not commanded to adminster it in any form, because we are not worthy to be considered sinless by our own efforts. It is in our right to believe idolatry is wrong, just as Hindus have the right to call christianity adharmic.

To kill people because of any reason, other than lawful civil justice is wrong - any christian will agree with that. But I find your determination to blame Christianity for the selfish action of colonial Europe surprising. Does this mean following Santana Dharma is to blame for Kashmir? (I am applying your logic here.)

The followers of Santana Dharma were the victims of Kashmir actually, there are 500,000 Hindu pandit refugees who had to lock their homes and flee because they feared their daughters were going to get raped and son's killed.

Santana Dharma is to be rewarded for the existance of Kashmir, and Pakistan.

Do you see my reasoning, it is because of Hindu tolerance that Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka, and Bangladesh exist. It is because of our secular beliefs that our Prime Minister is a Sikh, the President a Muslim, and the leader of the Congress Party a Christian leading a Hindu majority nation of 80%. We judge based on criteria, not religion.

As of today India is under siege from Azad Kashmir, the explosions were in one of the most holy cities on the eve of Holi in Varanasi. Is this not tolerance, we know they came from Pakistan, yet we didn't attack back. Likewise the USA, for 2,000 people took over two coutries and killed more than 300,000 people. That is the difference in tolerance and the amount of suffering a person can endure. Yet the people only concentrate only on economic development and poverty upliftment. The terrorists are getting so arrogant they are starting to attack universities and other economic tools of India. A IISc professor has been killed. And legally the whole of Kashmir was signed over to India by it's king, and it's India's duty to defend it's territory and it's citizens. But it let Pakistan have the land up and until the line of control for fear of losing the lives of it's citizens. It is a very humble and peaceful country.

Santana Dharma is what gave the world Pluralism, Yoga, and many scientific systems.

 

[Nahienga]

This is the point: christians are not taught to punish non-Christians for sinning.

Deuteronomy 17:2 - 17:5. Stones hurt.

 

[elijah115]

The term follower of Christ is accept Jesus as the only instance where there was the Son of God on this Earth. To deny any other religion and to punish and segregate idolaters from the Christian population. And anyone who thinks otherwise is less spiritually advanced and inferior to you, because you believe in Christ and have the bible as reference.

You are right by saying that the bible is our reference for learning about Jesus, by saying that we believe in Christ Jesus, and by saying that we believe He was the Son of God.

Apart from this, you have an extremely poor and completely wrong understanding of what we are taught as christians. The equivalence of what you said to me, is like me saying to you: "Hindus worships cows".


As a Hindu, you'd be surprised to learn that Hindus worship cows. As a christian, I am surprised to learn christianity is racist.

 

[srev2004]

You are right by saying that the bible is our reference for learning about Jesus, by saying that we believe in Christ Jesus, and by saying that we believe He was the Son of God.

Apart from this, you have an extremely poor and completely wrong understanding of what we are taught as christians. The equivalence of what you said to me, is like me saying to you: "Hindus worships cows".


As a Hindu, you'd be surprised to learn that Hindus worship cows. As a christian, I am surprised to learn christianity is racist.

So would you be tolerant of me practicing my religion and make no attempts at evangelising? if so then I accept Christianity is tolerant based on you, but based on the missionaries in India, I draw a different conclusion. There the Christians recruit people who are desperately poor by paying them money, or not give them aid if they didn't convert. Isn't this very materialistic and in name only, if you were a true Christian, you would stop this, but about 100 billion comes from the USA alone every year to prey on the poor in India. For example during the Tsunami several NGO's came and they refused aid to villagers who didn't accept Christianity and once the police were called they fled. Aren't Christians supposed to be indifferent and not racist. What you preach and what I've seen are heavily different. I don't even want to mention the Christian militants gaining power in Nagaland trying to destablize India through maoists and tribals.

I'm sorry, but I judge based on what I see being done under the label of Christianity, feel free to correct my misbeliefs but also take action so your religion is not misunderstood. If I were you I would try to lobby and protest in the Church to stop all Christian NGO's going to India. What they show you here and what they do there is very different. How would I feel if my religion is under seige by Christianity all the time, explain this to me Elijah? They are trying to build a church in the middle of a Holy city, that's like asking for a Hindu temple next to the Vatican. Stuff like this is what is driving me to such conclusions.

They take India's tolerance for granted and attack other religions as they wish. Such actions have had some negative reactions also, for example the Australian missionary and family that were burnt alive in the car which I highly condemn. But if these tensions are to be stopped, I would suggest Christians drop the superiority complex and stop evangelising.

 

[elijah115]

Deuteronomy 17:2 - 17:5. Stones hurt.

Were the ancient hebrews christians?

 

[Nahienga]

Were the ancient hebrews christians?

Not up to me to decide. Did they follow the bible and/or Jesus? If so, they probably were.
Why?
Isn't christians following the whole bible? Or is it only certain, choosen verses?
Just asking, because last time I was looking in the bible, which was a few minutes ago, it said that you should stone non-christians.
On the other hand, Jesus said that you shall respect non-christians too?
"I stone you respectfully!"

 

[yaqovzadeek]

Wasn't half the Christian population involved in the Crusades? Wasn't George Washington a Christian, and he had slaves? What about all the people that lived in the South who had slave plantations, were they not Christians as well? WHat about the soldiers in Iraq? What about the USA population when they justified the atomic bombs? What about the infinite other circumstances that would make Christians not peace loving? If that's yes, then the population of Christians has severely shrunk.

I thought the definition of Christian was Follower of Christ, not whether they were good or not since we are already born with sin. If that's not the case, peace loving Gandhi would be a better Christian than 99% of the Christians according to your definition.

Very good point actually, I was wondering, the founding fathers of America (if we can call them that) were they not Christian, now they came or many were deported from England to America on religious grounds, and in the US they were free to practice their religion what they could not in England.Now when they came with their Geneva Bibles and they wiped out millions of Natives from the land and they stole the land it did not belong to them.
Now one can see that they were Christian they built their Churches and were strict practitioners of their faith yet they wiped out millions of Native Americans.What that part of their Christianity too,To kill the native americans and steal their land.
Columbus did not discover America he christianised it.when the founding fathers reached Plymouth rock, thyey came with the intention of Christianising the millions of Natives, who resisted and were massacred. Many who survived converted to christianity many were slaughtered in the name of the cross.
The crusade when they marched, they carried the Cross with them and even wore big red crosses on their armour.
So to say Hitler was a Christian is nothing surprising.
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
aka James the Just

 

[elijah115]

So would you be tolerant of me practicing my religion and make no attempts at evangelising?

My faith compels me to evangelise, as a christian. Furthermore, I don't see how by being a christian or evanglising I'm stopping you from practising your own religion. You believe the dharma is eternal, why should adharmic teachings disturb you? If you don't believe what I teach you about christianity, that's your perogative. Do you then have the right to stop anyone else from being me? Could I ask you why you joined a christian website, if Hindu's aren't supposed to evangelise?

 

[Skillganon]

My faith compels me to evangelise, as a christian. Furthermore, I don't see how by being a christian or evanglising I'm stopping you from practising your own religion. You believe the dharma is eternal, why should adharmic teachings disturb you? If you don't believe what I teach you about christianity, that's your perogative. Do you then have the right to stop anyone else from being me?

What about Mr Morey? Does his faith requires to evangelise the way he has been doing?

 

[srev2004]

My faith compels me to evangelise, as a christian. Furthermore, I don't see how by being a christian or evanglising I'm stopping you from practising your own religion. You believe the dharma is eternal, why should adharmic teachings disturb you? If you don't believe what I teach you about christianity, that's your perogative. Do you then have the right to stop anyone else from being me? Could I ask you why you joined a christian website, if Hindu's aren't supposed to evangelise?

I joined a Christian website, because there was gross misunderstanding about Hinduism and I am on the receiving end of these stereotypes, and this one way seemed right for me to correct those beliefs. I have never tried to preach Jesus as false and Krishna as right, if anything we Hindu's are pluralistic and believe God is in everything including Jesus, and who knows maybe he was the Son of God. Evangelising is trying to convert, educating is teaching what is correct so people aren't ignorant. I won't complain if you teach me what Jesus preached, I would be more than happy to listen, but when you say your religion is right and mine wrong and I'm going to hell, that's when it's crossing the lines of tolerance.

Just step out of your shoes for one second, and realize the effects of such agressive thinking, or if you teach kids such things. Would they treat everyone as equal or respect everyone equally? Wouldn't it promote segregation? And tell me personally, do you believe God would get jealous over what we think or do you think he would be just based on our time on Earth?

 

[elijah115]

No, I haven't grown up in a racist territory. Why?

Hmm... Yeah, you're right. Maybe I should follow the bible. I mean, it only tells you to kill when it's right to kill. Like when nobody's looking (Exodus 2:11-2:12).
And why not buy some souls too. It must be OK since even priests do that (Exodus 22:11).
But oh I forgot, my eyes are handicapped, and I'm not miss Universe, so I can't come to visit god's house or altar (Leviticus 21:16 - 21:20).

The bible is so unclear that you can interpret the texts in it to anything you like. It's full of contradictions. You just have to choose what to follow, and I think Hitler choosed the more violent and injustice parts.

Hitler would probably not call you a christian.

Have you ever heard the saying "There's no fool-proof manual against a retard?"? I'm of the opinion that if one is sincere, humble, caring and obedient, the bible is easy to understand - more so to christians. I don't think any learned person would draw evil teachings from the bible, unless they were already evil and needed something to twist.

 

[elijah115]

What about Mr Morey? Does his faith requires to evangelise the way he has been doing?

Who's Mr Morey?

 

[Nahienga]

Have you ever heard the saying "There's no fool-proof manual against a retard?"? I'm of the opinion that if one is sincere, humble, caring and obedient, the bible is easy to understand - more so to christians. I don't think any learned person would draw evil teachings from the bible, unless they were already evil and needed something to twist.

Do you think Hitler considered his work as evil?