Was Enoch the first scribe?

[Meepy]

I have been reading many commentaries that comment that Enoch was the first person to create the ancient alphabet and the first person to write. Little is said about him in Genesis, but many ancient agaddah and commentaries have him as the first scribe ever.

The Arabic writers (u) call him Edris, and say he was skilled in astronomy and other sciences, whom the Grecians say is the same with Hermes Trismegistus; and the Jews call him Metatron, the great scribe, as in the Targum of Jonathan: they say (w), that Adam delivered to him the secret of the intercalation of the year, and he delivered it to Noah, and that he was the first that composed books of astronomy (x); and so Eupolemus (y) says he was the first inventor of astrology, and not the Egyptians; and is the same the Greeks call Atlas, to whom they ascribe the invention of it.


Abraham...explained astrology and the other sciences to them(the Egyptian priests) , saying that the Babylonians and he himself had obtained this knowledge. However, he attributed the discovery of them to Enoch. Enoch first discovered astrology, not the Egyptians. - Eusebius, Praeparation Evangelica 9.17.8

 

[Rick Otto]

cool

 

[freezerman2000]

The first known written texts(cuneiform)was invented by the Sumerians.
Cuneiform script - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Rick Otto]

The Book of Enoch (also 1 Enoch) is an ancient Jewish religious work, ascribed to Enoch, the great-grandfather of Noah. It is not currently regarded as part of the Canon of Scripture as used by Jews, apart from the Beta Israel canon, nor by any Christian group, apart from the Ethiopian Orthodox Church and Eritrean Orthodox Church canon.
Western scholars currently assert that its older sections (mainly in the Book of the Watchers) date from about 300 BCE and the latest part (Book of Parables) probably was composed at the end of the 1st century BCE
It is wholly extant only in the Ge'ez language, with Aramaic fragments from the Dead Sea Scrolls and a few Greek and Latin fragments. There is no consensus among scholars about the original language: some propose Aramaic, others Hebrew, while the probable thesis according to E. Isaac is that 1 Enoch, as Daniel, was composed partially in Aramaic and partially in Hebrew. Ethiopian scholars generally hold that the Ethiopian Ge'ez is the language of the original from which the Greek and Aramaic copies were made, pointing out that it is the only language in which the complete text has yet been found.
A short section of 1 Enoch (1En1:9) is quoted in the New Testament (Letter of Jude 1:14-15), and there it is attributed to "Enoch the Seventh from Adam" (1En60:8). It is argued that all the writers of the New Testament were familiar with it and were influenced by it in thought and diction.
Book of Enoch From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Rick Otto]

Enoch (from Hebrew: חֲנוֹךְ, Modern H̱anokh Tiberian Ḥănôḵ; Greek: Ενώχ, Enōkh; Arabic Name:إينوخ, "initiated, dedicated, disciplined") is a Hebrew name.


The Bible has several occurrences of that name:

• Enoch, the son of Jared, a great-grandfather of Noah, and father of Methuselah (Genesis 5:1-18). Also 1Chron.1:3. He is also represented in the Book of Enoch, which formed part of the Dead Sea Scrolls collection and presents itself as being written by Enoch himself. And in the New Testament; Luke 3:37, Heb.11:5, Jude 1:14.
• Enoch, son of Cain , after whom Cain named the first city he founded.
• Hanoch (Enoch), son of Reuben
• Hanoch (Enoch), one of the five sons of Midian

Enoch is often confused with Enos (or Enosh). Enos is recorded as a grandson of Adam (Genesis 5:5-6), and great grandfather of Enoch (Genesis 5:18).

Enoch From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ishraqiyun]

The Arabic writers (u) call him Edris, and say he was skilled in astronomy and other sciences, whom the Grecians say is the same with Hermes Trismegistus;

For some Arabic writers the term "Hermes" was considered more of a title rather than a name and they applied it to at least three different figures. I believe this knowledge was probably transmited to them via the Sabians of Harran. They were asked by the Caliph what religion they followed and they said they were Sabians and they followed the books of the Prophet Hermes / Idris / Enoch which were probably much like the writings of the Corpus Hermeticum. Sabians were invovled in many of the early translations of Greek philosophical texts into Arabic. Much astrological and hermetic lore was disseminated by them throughout the Islamicate world as well. Tabit ibn Qurra was on the more well known Sabians.

You can read about the three Hermes in this book on Google books here:

The wisdom of the mystic East ... - Google Books

 

[Meepy]

Some commentators claim the book of Enoch was the book Noah carried on with him in the Ark. I imagine it would be hard to carry written tablets in such a hard environment though. Enoch is one of the most mysterious characters in the bible. Not much on him, except he was taken up bodily into heaven. But we don't know what God really saw in him. If the book of Enoch is true, he sure went through quite an adventure seeing all the celestial heavens.

 

[Meepy]

The first known written texts(cuneiform)was invented by the Sumerians.
Cuneiform script - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

those are pictograms. The first alphabet was known to be brought forth by Enoch

 

[freezerman2000]

You are thinking of Hieroglyphics.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

I'm going to have to check out the Book of Enoch. I've read a little about it but never the actual text. I think I have a book by Elisabeth Clare Prophet that translates two of the Enoch texts. I have too many books I need to read though. Ya'll have to stop giving me suggestions like that

 

[Meepy]

Enoch was the grandfather of Noah. The Book of Enoch chapter 68:1 "And after that my grandfather Enoch gave me all the secrets in the book and in the parables which had been given to him, and he put them together for me in the words of the book of the parables." This makes it possible for the Book to have survived the flood as its not too hard to accept that Noah would have taken his Great Grandfathers writings with him onto the ark. The Book of Enoch was extant centuries before the birth of Christ and yet is considered by many to be more Christian in its theology than Jewish.

It was considered scripture by some early Christians. The early second century "Epistle of Barnabus" makes much use of the Book of Enoch. Second and Third Century Church Fathers like Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Origin and Clement of Alexandria all make use of the Book of Enoch. Tertullian (160-230 C.E) even called the Book of Enoch "Holy Scripture". The Ethiopic Church even added the Book of Enoch to its official canon

 

[SummaScriptura]

The oldest source for the tradition that Enoch was the first scribe is the Book of Enoch. Even for those who late-date the book, it still comes out older than any other written source for the idea.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Awhile back I became aware of verse numbering errors in the various online copies of R.H. Charles' translation of The Book of Enoch.

In 2006, I perpetuated the same mistake, basing my own webpage on the text found at the Wesleyan University site:
http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/noncanon/ot/pseudo/enoch.htm

So, initially my website also had many places where verses were divided incorrectly and sometimes verse numbers were missing completly and/or verses had been combined and run together.

Just look at the following example. Notice where the division for Enoch 1:2 comes (taken from the CCEL.org site):

[sup]1[/sup]The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be [sup]2[/sup]living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. And he took up his parable and said -Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is [sup]3[/sup]for to come.

That's pretty odd, don't you think?

Here's what it should look like (which makes it a lot nicer for quoting purposes):

[sup]1[/sup]The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. [sup]2[/sup]And he took up his parable and said- Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is for to come.

The following sites all have the same sort of verse numbering and division problems:

http://www.heaven.net.nz/writings/thebookofenochwithversenumbers.htm
http://www.altheim.com/lit/enoch.html
http://www.ccel.org/c/charles/otpseudepig/enoch/ENOCH_1.HTM
http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/ethiopian/enoch/1watchers/watchers.htm
http://reluctant-messenger.com/book_of_enoch.htm
http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/noncanon/ot/pseudo/enoch.htm

Since then, I have received a corrected digital copy.

I also have an old hard copy edition of The Book of Enoch, published by S.P.C.K., with which to compare my corrected digital copy; they are the same.

I have converted the entire book into fully linkable HTML; all chapters and verses are linkable. In this version the verse breaks and numbers are correct

I also made sure it has a proper paragraph format for easier reading, with the poetry sections of the book showing in versified form.

http://www.summascriptura.com/html/Enoch_1_RHC.htm

You may feel free to link to any chapter and verse within the text.

To link to Chapters use this convention:
http://www.summascriptura.com/html/Enoch_1_RHC.htm#69

To link to Verses use this convention:
http://www.summascriptura.com/html/Enoch_1_RHC.htm#69:26

The # (pound) sign directs the URL to internal anchors on the page for either chapters or chapters and verses.

Enjoy!

 

[SummaScriptura]

Abraham...explained astrology and the other sciences to them(the Egyptian priests) , saying that the Babylonians and he himself had obtained this knowledge. However, he attributed the discovery of them to Enoch. Enoch first discovered astrology, not the Egyptians. - Eusebius, Praeparation Evangelica 9.17.8

Hmmm...

I wonder what Eusebius' source was?

Here's a puzzle for you...

Until the mid-20th century, there was a book which was unknown to the histories of the Jews and the Church. In the Dead Sea Scrolls a book was recovered which is called (misnomered actually) "The Genesis Aprocryphon". In the Genesis Apocryphon I find the following mentioned (the speaker is Abram, writing in the first person).

23. [I stayed there for five years] and at the end of those five years
24. three men from the nobles of Egyp[t came] to me [ ]of Pharaoh Zoan concerning [my] words and concerning my wife. They gave
25. [me many gifts and as]ked of m[e] knowledge, wisdom and truth. So I read before them the book of the words of Enoch.
26. [ ] about the famine, which [ ]th and not [ ] and came lmqm until [ ]s to them the [ ] words of

As you can see, this pre-Christian book has Abram as the preserver in his day of the book(s) of Enoch. He reads from it in the presence of the Egyptians. There is an uncanny similarity with Eusebius' mention above and Abram's first-person account in the Genesis Apocryphon.

 

[razeontherock]

A short section of 1 Enoch (1En1:9) is quoted in the New Testament (Letter of Jude 1:14-15), and there it is attributed to "Enoch the Seventh from Adam" (1En60:8). It is argued that all the writers of the New Testament were familiar with it and were influenced by it in thought and diction.
Book of Enoch From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The hard sayings of Christ are quoting Enoch. While I'm still not ready to consider it as Canon, (yet I'm forced to ask myself why not if Christ resorted to quoting it) as there are sections that are questionable and most of it is unusable, I think there can be no doubt it is inspired.

I wouldn't argue Enoch was the first to write EVER, but I do think he taught our species a lot of new things, and I'd be surprised if he weren't literate.

Solely as an aside for those interested:

there are traditions that state Enoch's writings came off the Ark with Noah, were passed down through Shem, and this is the household Abraham was raised in.

 

[razeontherock]

But we don't know what God really saw in him.

Sure we do:

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God."

Apparently that's enough

 

[razeontherock]

I have converted the entire book into fully linkable HTML; all chapters and verses are linkable. In this version the verse breaks and numbers are correct

I also made sure it has a proper paragraph format for easier reading, with the poetry sections of the book showing in versified form.

http://www.summascriptura.com/html/Enoch_1_RHC.htm

You may fell free to link to any chapter and verse within the text.

To link to Chapters use this convention:
http://www.summascriptura.com/html/Enoch_1_RHC.htm#69

To link to Verses use this convention:
http://www.summascriptura.com/html/Enoch_1_RHC.htm#69:26

The # (pound) sign directs the URL to internal anchors on the page for either chapters or chapters and verses.

Enjoy!

Thank you - what a treasure!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by SummaScriptura I have converted the entire book into fully linkable HTML; all chapters and verses are linkable. In this version the verse breaks and numbers are correct

Thank you - what a treasure!

I agree!
That reminds me of this old thread where we were discussing those weeks of the apocalypse in the book of Enoch. I just now remembered it

http://www.christianforums.com/t6895192/#post52126268
Enoch and the 8 weeks

The Apocalypse of Weeks is 10 weeks

http://www.summascriptura.com/html/Enoch_1_RHC.htm#93

Notice this is a 10-week apocalypse concernig the "plant of uprightness", that is Israel. We are now in the 7th prophetic week in which unbelief amoung the people of Israel is rampant. But at the close of this week that will change, "at its close shall be elected the elect righteous of the eternal plant of righteousness". When Paul wrote, "all Israel will be saved", he was only reiterating somthing that had long been a part of Jewish prophetic books.

 

[razeontherock]

Just so's you know you're not using invisible ink:

When Paul wrote, "all Israel will be saved", he was only reiterating somthing that had long been a part of Jewish prophetic books.

I find everything Paul wrote to be supported by earlier writings, and nothing to be uniquely "his." I try to implement this when I see so many try to discredit Paul ... for some odd reason.

 

[Hairy Tic]

I have been reading many commentaries that comment that Enoch was the first person to create the ancient alphabet and the first person to write. Little is said about him in Genesis, but many ancient agaddah and commentaries have him as the first scribe ever.

The Arabic writers (u) call him Edris, and say he was skilled in astronomy and other sciences, whom the Grecians say is the same with Hermes Trismegistus; and the Jews call him Metatron, the great scribe, as in the Targum of Jonathan: they say (w), that Adam delivered to him the secret of the intercalation of the year, and he delivered it to Noah, and that he was the first that composed books of astronomy (x); and so Eupolemus (y) says he was the first inventor of astrology, and not the Egyptians; and is the same the Greeks call Atlas, to whom they ascribe the invention of it.


Abraham...explained astrology and the other sciences to them(the Egyptian priests) , saying that the Babylonians and he himself had obtained this knowledge. However, he attributed the discovery of them to Enoch. Enoch first discovered astrology, not the Egyptians. - Eusebius, Praeparation Evangelica 9.17.8

## That was all said at a time when the knowledge of cuneiform, as well as of how to read it, had been lost. Happily, that is no longer the case. It looks like this:

​

"Assyrian" is now called Akkadian (see Gen.10.10). Cuneiform was used by Sumerian, then adopted by Akkadian - the Semitic language used in Assyria & Babylonia, & unrelated to Sumerian. The cuneiform illustrated belongs to the New Assyrian period of Akkadian, from c.900 to 609 BC. Cuneiform goes back to c.3200 BC, but can't be read until c.2900 BC. The latest example of cuneiform is on an astronomical tablet from 74-75 AD.

Source of image: Assyrian grammar with chrestomathy and glossary

From A. H. Layard, Nineveh and its Remains, vol.2, 1849 - a transcription of the beginning of the Standard Inscription of Asshur-nasir-pal II of Assyria [see attachment]

Something more recent here:

http://www.sron.nl/~jheise/akkadian/

CUNEIFORM AND SUMERIAN WRITING - World Topics | Facts and Details

 

[Hairy Tic]

those are pictograms. The first alphabet was known to be brought forth by Enoch

## The alphabet wasn't invented until 1700* BC or so - long after Enoch's presumed date:

Ancient Scripts: Proto-Sinaitic

*But see also:

http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/111499sci-alphabet-origin.html