Was D&D locked?

[reddogs]

Very good points Red.

I have to ask this, though. Are you "sketchy" at all with the fundamental beliefs of our church?

I'm not. Not one iota, and I have debated the Sabbath commandment until there is no room for question in my mind. The same with the state of the dead and immersion baptism, etc.

That may not be true for others, though and I realize that. There are some that just know God's will for us has never changed and they accept it, but others may want concrete New Testament teachings to cement their beliefs.

That isn't really debate though. If they're already Adventist or someone wishing to become an Adventist, sincere questioning is not debate.

We have had some genuine people with genuine questions come in here and I have never once NOT answered them if I saw the question....even though I've answered the same question probably no less than 100 times.

It's the not-so-genuine and the kick-you-under-the-table-while-I-smile-to-your-face aspect that I'm tired of dealing with.

If we're going to have debate I don't want to limit it to topics outside of our beliefs. I have strong scriptural support for everything I believe in or I wouldn't believe it.

I want you all to notice something....since we've had moderation in here contributing to our discussions, do you guys see the difference? Nobody is trying to harass us. They CAN stop and leave us alone, obviously!

Sure they're taking our posts over there, but they're just proving our points when they do that!

We need moderation that will take care of harassment because it's gotten to the point where some people come over here for no other reason than to harass now that they can't "teach".

I'm not ready to leave CF. We got a split and this forum could be AWESOME, but we're going to have to go through the growing pains first. Anything worth having is worth fighting for.

That's my personal opinion, of course!

I pray for this forum a lot. We all should. If God is for us, who can be against us?

I think I am on the six one now...

When I came to CF I knew about Gods truth but had been spiritually dead for many years, going over the truths in careful study, fellowshiping, interacting and sharing Gods truth forced me to come to a decision, and ever since the Holy Spirit has been guiding me into harder and higher levels of understanding which never meant anything to me before.......

I guess thats what it means to 'grow in Christ'....

Red

 

[TrustAndObey]

I think I am on the six one now...

When I came to CF I knew about Gods truth but had been spiritually dead for many years, going over the truths in careful study, fellowshiping, interacting and sharing Gods truth forced me to come to a decision, and ever since the Holy Spirit has been guiding me into harder and higher levels of understanding which never meant anything to me before.......

I guess thats what it means to 'grow in Christ'....

Red

God bless you for the seeking, Brother Rojo!!

I think it's a continued understanding for all of us honestly, and there ain't nothin' wrong with finding out WHY you believe something and praying about it all the while!

 

[mva1985]

I think I am on the six one now...

When I came to CF I knew about Gods truth but had been spiritually dead for many years, going over the truths in careful study, fellowshiping, interacting and sharing Gods truth forced me to come to a decision, and ever since the Holy Spirit has been guiding me into harder and higher levels of understanding which never meant anything to me before.......

I guess thats what it means to 'grow in Christ'....

Red

God bless you for the seeking, Brother Rojo!!

I think it's a continued understanding for all of us honestly, and there ain't nothin' wrong with finding out WHY you believe something and praying about it all the while!

to both of these posts.

 

[woobadooba]

what you all are not seeing is different people have there own process that leads them to God.

And what you aren't seeing is that it's not our own process that leads us to God.

Jesus is the only Way, the Truth, and the Life.

Not every path leads to God.

 

[woobadooba]

Woob,

I don't think the time has come for that. There are many people on CF and I think we need to have the "traditional" side of Adventism present and available for people to review.

You mean you aren't ready for that.

You just don't get it. We are not welcome here.

And just as there are a lot of people here who
you think we ought to be fellowshipping with,
there are a lot of SDAs out there who would like to
have a place to go to where they know they won't
be harassed.

I would much rather reach out to my own than to
try to please people who do nothing but harass
and belittle us.

 

[TrustAndObey]

You mean you aren't ready for that.

You just don't get it. We are not welcome here.

And just as there are a lot of people here who
you think we ought to be fellowshipping with,
there are a lot of SDAs out there who would like to
have a place to go to where they know they won't
be harassed.

I would much rather reach out to my own than to
try to please people who do nothing but harass
and belittle us.

Woob, I'm just asking that you be patient. We have a forum to ourselves now (well, technically we're supposed to). If we can get through this and word the rules in a way that we CAN'T be harassed anymore, this could be a wonderful beacon for outreach!

I go to a lot of other sites (well, time permitting), and some of them do not allow debate at all. They are so wonderful and I will supply the links to those interested if you'll PM me.

Red is right though. I'll tell you what, I had a VERY patient person in my life allowing me to ask questions like "well, how do we know our current Saturday is the same Saturday that Jesus called Sabbath?" and "doesn't Colossians 2:17 say that Sabbath is a shadow of what WAS to come?"

If this person hadn't been able to ANSWER those questions for me, I wouldn't be an Adventist today Woob. But she could and she did. She could because she had already questioned that herself and found the answer. She answered me totally from scripture.

The questioning itself is NOT a bad thing. When you're accountable to explain the "why" of something, you find it out in a hurry and it just makes you STRONGER in your faith. If it doesn't, then you're of the wrong faith anyway, right?

The way it was suggested, NOBODY can say anything AGAINST our fundamental beliefs. If they do, we'll report them. If they harass or belittle us and we report them and nothing comes of it, then I'm one step behind you in leaving and I'm serious.

We need some peace here, but I don't shy away from answering WHY I believe something, ever. I either know exactly why or I don't believe it.

We know those that don't ask sincere questions and already know the answers we'll give but just don't like them. Don't be distracted by them. At that point it is genuinely a stumblingblock and they're accountable to God for that!

Know why YOU believe it, defend it, and let your little light shine!

I'm not giving up on this forum. It could be wonderful and we just have to fight for it.

 

[catlover]

Dean, I said it before and I'll say it again I think it was a conflict of interest on your part in creating and especially the wording of the poll to help the progressives get their own forum.

The statements highlighted above contradict themselves. In one sentence you say that they did play a role, and in the next you say that it is completely wrong.

If they did play some sort of role why is it that our D&D forum is closed?

I'm sure it will all wash out, but seems like it will take a lot of detergent!

I have to admit the poll was very scewed and unfair to traditional Adventists, it did not accurately portray the situation between traditional and progressive Adventists.
It portrayed the progressives as victims and that is not the case. As stated before both sides have done a good job of antagonizing one another.

 

[TrustAndObey]

I have to admit the poll was very scewed and unfair to traditional Adventists, it did not accurately portray the situation between traditional and progressive Adventists.
It portrayed the progressives as victims and that is not the case. As stated before both sides have done a good job of antagonizing one another.

I'd be lying through my teeth if I said I hadn't ever been antagonistic toward a Progressive Adventist in the past, because I certainly have been.

Mostly because some of them teach things that our church simply does NOT teach (like evolution...the bible isn't inspired by GOD...etc).

I stick up for the teachings of our church and they want to CHANGE the teachings of our church.

But here's the thing...since the split, go over there and see if you see MY happy little face in any posts. You won't.

I think they deserve peace. I also think WE do as well.

I did go over there for the first time the other day and I saw a lot of clear general CF rule violations, but did I report them? No.

I would just like the same respect here. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Hi Dean,

I would think to be a moderate of a congregation, you have to stay neutral with your actions while you are still entitled to your beliefs.

When you started the poll in your own forum asking for a subforum for the progs, you had marred that unwritten trust. Even some members of your own forum noted the absurdity of the bias in your wordings.

You said how the progs were wrongly persecuted and how dire was their situation. Do you see any of us going to the prog forum and dance around their FSGs to harass them??? Now I hope you are able to see who is persecuting whom.

After the split, you should have left the mod team here since the group you signed up to serve left and have their own place now. But you stayed on and we lived with it.

In all honesty, Dean, it has become apparent to me now unfortunately you have become a part of the problem here. You should wisely resign from the mod team or we will have to have a vote of confidence concerning you as a moderator here.

fwiw, the poll had little if any impact on whether there would be a split or not. It had already been in discussion for months. The administration was aware there was a real problem in this forum and that it would probably be necessary. .

DeanM has been very fair as a mod. A "confidence vote" would be a violation of the site rule on issues with staff decisions. You can appeal decisions, but if you appeal every decison - that will be seen as harrassment.
And all decisions are made as a group - all of us weigh in so it is not up to one mod.

It would be best to focus on developing the FSGs that would truly make this your congregational home and be compliant with the overal site direction which is what we are trying to do.

 

[TrustAndObey]

fwiw, the poll had little if any impact on whether there would be a split or not. It had already been in discussion for months. The administration was aware there was a real problem in this forum and that it would probably be necessary. .

It doesn't change the fact that we were grossly misrepresented to an entire forum full of people.

And here's the thing....the problem STILL exists because they won't stay out of our forum now. They are supposed to make fellowship posts ONLY, but instead they're violating that (by Dean's own admittance, not just ours), and getting OUR threads shut down. Why isn't it being acknowledged that they were given the benefit of the doubt of being persecuted, yet they continue to harass us HERE?

DeanM has been very fair as a mod. A "confidence vote" would be a violation of the site rule on issues with staff decisions. You can appeal decisions, but if you appeal every decison - that will be seen as harrassment. And all decisions are made as a group - all of us weigh in so it is not up to one mod.

We simply do not agree with you. Please let us voice our concerns on this. We are not the only ones that noticed the bias. Several non-Adventists commented on it as well.

It is a conflict of interest that he claimed their persecution yet he is a moderator there AND here. It's not right.

It would be best to focus on developing the FSGs that would truly make this your congregational home and be compliant with the overal site direction which is what we are trying to do.

It will not do us any good to formulate FSGs is they are not enforced properly. THAT is why we're hashing this all out.

 

[woobadooba]

I'm not giving up on this forum. It could be wonderful and we just have to fight for it.

You just don't get it.

They will not give into your terms.

Anyway, I won't waste my time fighting this battle.

Good luck!

 

[honorthesabbath]

Hi Dean,

I would think to be a moderate of a congregation, you have to stay neutral with your actions while you are still entitled to your beliefs.

When you started the poll in your own forum asking for a subforum for the progs, you had marred that unwritten trust. Even some members of your own forum noted the absurdity of the bias in your wordings.

You said how the progs were wrongly persecuted and how dire was their situation. Do you see any of us going to the prog forum and dance around their FSGs to harass them??? Now I hope you are able to see who is persecuting whom.

After the split, you should have left the mod team here since the group you signed up to serve left and have their own place now. But you stayed on and we lived with it.

In all honesty, Dean, it has become apparent to me now unfortunately you have become a part of the problem here. You should wisely resign from the mod team or we will have to have a vote of confidence concerning you as a moderator here.

Amen and amen DL--Dean does need to resign. After all--it was his own words that stated that he had "volunteered to be the PROGRESSIVE moderator"; which on it's face looks suspicious. Last time I checked, moderator does NOT mean ADVOCATE!

 

[honorthesabbath]

From my past experience this would be a useless endeavor, as it is just as biased.

Amen Woob--I too have experienced the 'appeals' team. We will get no justice.

 

[FreeinChrist]

It doesn't change the fact that we were grossly misrepresented to an entire forum full of people.

And here's the thing....the problem STILL exists because they won't stay out of our forum now. They are supposed to make fellowship posts ONLY, but instead they're violating that (by Dean's own admittance, not just ours), and getting OUR threads shut down. Why isn't it being acknowledged that they were given the benefit of the doubt of being persecuted, yet they continue to harass us HERE?

Ans so they are reported and we have been dealing with them one by one. What members cannot do is to tell them to leave and try to moderate the forum themself.

We simply do not agree with you. Please let us voice our concerns on this. We are not the only ones that noticed the bias. Several non-Adventists commented on it as well.

And voicing your concern in the wrong way can cause you to violate the site wide rule on 'issues with staff decisions."
Here it is:
Issues with staff decisions should be taken to the staff member, then the reconciliation team, period. Don't post them, don't PM them to others, don't take them to Lee.

When LeeD took over CF, some changes were made from the time of the wiki. Members do not vote for staff, and staff are assigned by the administration and need not be the same denomination. I am glad the administration is including members in deveoping the FSGs but ultimately they will decide if what is developed is okay or not.

It is a conflict of interest that he claimed their persecution yet he is a moderator there AND here. It's not right.

Several of us are moderating both - and other forums to boot, even some outside the congregational areas.

One staff member does not control anything Decisions are made by the TEAM. Sometimes the messenger gets targeted. If you are going to claim bias, you need to have something to back it up and that is what the feedback button is for - you can appeal decisions and let the admins and RT take a look. They can then look at the report thread and the reported post and the overall issues and decide.

It will not do us any good to formulate FSGs is they are not enforced properly. THAT is why we're hashing this all out.

You need to have FSGs that can be moderated fairly. It is a challenge to moderate intent - and hard, if not frequently impossible, to judge that correctly. It would be much better and fair for all to moderate a post by content. You have a Statement of Faith and then hae a rule that debate against any part of the SoF is not allowed, then we can moderate by post content as to whether it is against the SoF or not.

This isn't being asked of this forum alone - all the other forums have gone to the same thing pretty much. Example - The Baptist forum had quite the hassle setting up new FSGs and we had to do the same thing. We developed a Statement of Faith and id away with a member list. I don't think there is a congregational forum with a member list as that is not allowed anymore.

 

[DarylFawcett]

Right now I think the focus should be in the D&D FSG Input thread, especially if we all want to get the presently locked D&D sub-forum unlocked.

 

[honorthesabbath]

Well Daryl-that forum shouldn't have been locked in the first place if the staff would have been enforcing the rules already in place.

Yes, I'm VERY angry that WE get penalized for the actions of those who BEGGED for their own forum and yet decided to come back here and harass this forum's members. It's without excuse.

 

[catlover]

Well Daryl-that forum shouldn't have been locked in the first place if the staff would have been enforcing the rules already in place.

Yes, I'm VERY angry that WE get penalized for the actions of those who BEGGED for their own forum and yet decided to come back here and harass this forum's members. It's without excuse.

I think the only solution should be to reopen D and D.

 

[honorthesabbath]

I think the only solution should be to reopen D and D.

Yes Catlover--I agree. Those responsible for this knew what they were doing but didn't seem to regard the rules.

I'm tired of having my house robbed.

 

[TrustAndObey]

I don't think we have anything left in our house TO rob.

Daryl, let's try Synger's suggestion for a while and see how it goes. It's been peaceful here, people know that this forum is under watchful eye....so yeah, let's try it. I'm game.

 

[TrustAndObey]

CATLOVER!!