Was Charles Darwin a fraud?

[BCP1928]

Okay ... so he said AI "could" write a bible.

Are you saying that the World Economic Forum didn't call for it to be done?

And did you catch his implication that all religions are wrong, when he said, "In a few years there might even be religions that are correct."

All religions might be wrong. That's the risk of faith.

 

[dlamberth]

Do you realize, River, that the World Economic Forum is calling for AI to write a bible and create a new religion that they call "actually correct"?

If so, will you go with AI's "particular interpretation"?

Did WEF Call For an AI-Written Bible to Create New Religions?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Did WEF Call For an AI-Written Bible to Create New Religions?

I already linked to that on the previous page.

 

[Joseph G]

Wow... 700+ replies now, eh? And yet the serious contention remains that Darwin is not revered as a "god" and that the ToE (macro) is not a sacred cow to the faithful.

Yaaawn... I'll check back around reply 1400 to see who has actually capitulated an inch.

The invitation in God's creation and through His witnesses remains for all folks: receive Jesus - the Creator with Father God - as your Lord and Savior today! You'll find Him from front cover to back in the Holy Bible - if you will release your deathgrip on Genesis 1 in a genuine search for Truth and read the rest! *smile*

John 1:1-18 NIV

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

There was a man sent from God whose name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

(John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."

Adios for now, muchachos...

biblegateway.com

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Wow... 700+ replies now, eh? And yet the serious contention remains that Darwin is not revered as a "god" and that the ToE (macro) is not a sacred cow to the faithful.

Yaaawn... I'll check back around reply 1400 to see who has actually capitulated an inch.

The invitation in God's creation and through His witnesses remains for all folks: receive Jesus - the Creator with Father God - as your Lord and Savior today! You'll find Him from front cover to back in the Holy Bible - if you will release your deathgrip on Genesis 1 in a genuine search for Truth and read the rest! *smile*

John 1:1-18 NIV

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

There was a man sent from God whose name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

(John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."

Adios for now, muchachos...

biblegateway.com

Mate, it's been shown repeatedly that your entire OP is just a lie, a very shoddy and poorly done lie which any amount of historical investigation, or even simple Wiki reading, shows to be a lie.

And you're just doing it by posting a Bible verse? All I can do is shake my head at you.

 

[Joseph G]

Mate, it's been shown repeatedly that your entire OP is just a lie, a very shoddy and poorly done lie which any amount of historical investigation, or even simple Wiki reading, shows to be a lie.

And you're just doing it by posting a Bible verse? All I can do is shake my head at you.

Luvs ya, Warden! And Jesus loves you, too!

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Luvs ya, Warden! And Jesus loves you, too!

Childish and dishonest. Have the courage to stick to a thread instead of running away all the time.

 

[Joseph G]

Childish and dishonest. Have the courage to stick to a thread instead of running away all the time.

Why thank you, Big W, what a profound compliment!

Matthew 18:3 NIV
"And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

biblegateway.com

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Why thank you, Big W, what a profound compliment!

Matthew 18:3 NIV
"And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

biblegateway.com

That only has to deal with faith, no intelligence or maturity.

 

[BCP1928]

Wow... 700+ replies now, eh? And yet the serious contention remains that Darwin is not revered as a "god" and that the ToE (macro) is not a sacred cow to the faithful.

That's just the way it is. What did you expect?

 

[Joseph G]

That only has to deal with faith, no intelligence or maturity.

1 Corinthians 1:25 NIV
"For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength."

Keep 'em comin', bra!

biblegateway.com

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

1 Corinthians 1:25 NIV
"For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength."

Keep 'em comin', bra!

biblegateway.com

But you are not God.

 

[Joseph G]

But you are not God.

Precisely... but He chose us to testify about HIS superior wisdom - deliberately as according to your standards:

1 Corinthians 1:26-30 NIV
"Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him. It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption."

And with that, I will really say Adieu!

God bless all who will believe!
biblegateway.com

 

[AV1611VET]

Darwin wasn't a fraud.

He was a nimrod.

 

[BCP1928]

Precisely... but He chose us to testify about HIS superior wisdom - deliberately as according to your standards:

1 Corinthians 1:26-30 NIV
"Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him. It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption."

And with that, I will really say Adieu!

God bless all who will believe!
biblegateway.com

Bless them indeed, who should come to believe. But you have done nothing to help bring them to it.

 

[Joseph G]

Bless them indeed, who should come to believe. But you have done nothing to help bring them to it.

Oh, I dunno bout that, BCPmeister...

Isaiah 55:8-11 NIV

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it."

Never underestimate the power of planting seeds and praying for the Lord to water them, my friend. Why not join in?

God bless!
biblegateway.com

 

[SelfSim]

Sorry I don't know what claims you're referring to.

Yes.

Of course they are, that was the point! Well, that and getting you to understand the difference between philosophical and methodological naturalism.

Ok .. explain the difference excluding claims based on untestable truths.

Honestly I don't know what you're talking about anymore.

Yes .. I'm pretty sure you don't.
Its about logical presuppositions vs testable assumptions.
One is logic, the other is science.
Science's models never start from untestable logical presuppositions (or logical imperatives) .. including the model of the scientific objective method.

We shall see from your explanation above, just how you're distinguishing between philosophical and methodological naturalism.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Yes, you hit upon the mark. I commend you for sticking it through momentarily to reach this realization about folks like Nietzsche and Marx.

So, you get an "A" on this first assignment.

I'll probably get an "I" on the rest as you'll see...

They don't need it, but as I alluded to earlier, we live in a world and time where people are amply MIS-learning the ToE and it ends up, whether by hook or crook, being the wedge that drives them away from their earlier faith. It doesn't have to happen that way, but it does often enough every day.

I'm not sure if you are implying that mis-learning the ToE causes believers to lose faith because of their poor understandig, but I am aware of how mal-learning of the ToE does cause departures and it comes when religiously driven distortions of the ToE are taught and then when those so malinformed learn the reality of ToE and it drives them away from their religion. If religions lie about science (or history) and their congregants learn the truth and the leave, I guess that's how it works out.

And I think it'd be great if you atheists (and I tire of having to delineate fellow human beings as such, but since they insist on that road of thought)

That's the way most of life is for me. Out in the real world very few people know that I am an atheist, and it was not much different in my old faith. But, here on CF, where our "faith badges" are on display by defaut (though currently a pull-down menu), I wouldn't want to be mistaken for a believer of any sort.

could do more than merely critique the Christian Faith.

I've got no other use for it. I struggle often to not think less of people for having it.

Obviously, there are some like, say, Joshua Bowen who do, but not all of you do.

I've seen some of Josh's stuff. Someday I may get and read his book.

Wow. I guess he does tend to do #1, but I'm not sure he does #2.

To be clear, I was offering my first potential guesses on your motivation for posting the Dawkins video. Was it just Dawkins alignment with your social politics or was there more? (Just tryin' to figger out what ya tryin' to learn us.)

And I don't think he's gone the way of Herbert Spencer.

I don't know this guy.

Ok. But yes, the ToE has been misused here and there, among this leader or thinker, since the time of Herbert Spencer, Marx and Nietszche. And I hope it's obvious I'm only citing them. One can easily enough take a year by year survey of very prominent thinker since 1865 and see what he (or she) has done with the ToE in political terms.

The ways modern physics has been abused are legion. I'm for knocking down any attempts to misapply or distort sciences for various religious, political, or social reasons.

Oh, good gracious. That's a bit much. I've barely "defended" him, and I definitely have not agreed with the way his denomination interprets the Bible,

I guess I should have also included "noobs". In my experience everyone either agrees with him, fights him, or doesn't know any better. I thougth you knew his MO better. From what I can read between the hidden posts, he is at his usuall thing of attacking science, particuarly by denegrating scientists -- in this case one of the standard attack on Darwin (just like the OP, though you and I and many others here know that the science isn't dependent on the man, but on the data). That whole business with Mrs. Hope and the Beagle captain.

but you guys act like I turned into the Green Goblin and stole away Aunt May for having even dared to say a few associative words in his favor.

Don't know them.

Oh, boo hoo. You'll just have to suck up the fact that both he and I are, however differentiated in form, Pre-millennialists where theology is a part of our outlook on world politics.

I don't know anything about these "millenials". Never learned about them.

Stop clutching those pearls. If you'd learn something about denominational differences of interpretation and dogma, you'd spare yourselves the self-inflicted decision to "reform" (or cancel, these days) folks like AV.

From my experiential perpsective you are all apostates and splitters from the "one true Church(tm)". I might have been classified as a dutiful, but disinterested Catholic with no interest in matters theological. I didn't even have to consider "evangelicals" or "creationists" (the former being a "foreign" exotic and the latter, I thought, an all-but-extinct species found only in the most backward corners of the nation) until I got to graduate school. Despite having a large number of Luterans in my own family, I have no idea what they believe. When you guys talk about theology stuff it is like the adult characters in Peanuts. As for him, I have given up any possiblitiy of useful interaction with him.

You're clarification is appreciated since the tendrils of meaning seem to splay themselves across too many various tangents in a forum setting.

No problem.

ok

Well...............................................................................then you and I are going to have some major contentions since I'm a philosopher and I tend to see the world through shades of Mary Shelley. Let's just say, I'm a scientific cynic and I see the bastions of "science" as a double-edge sword.

A modern day prometheus, you might say.

And this is in addition to whatever issues you and I may actually AGREE UPON where pseudo-science is assessed.


Again, thanks for the clarification. Now I know where to expect the logistical lines of our respective motivations to intersect.

Cheers.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I finally read past post #600, and I think this post helps clarify some of our earlier conversation)

[snip]

Secondly, the ToE definitely CAN be a wedge that separates a person from finding or maintaining faith in any religion. I am one such specimen of that experience, and I've done enough basic research to understand the why and how of such alienation from religion (or from Christianity in general, of whatever denominational stripe). Some of this cause to doubt can be seen in works like Vernon W. Grant's old book, The Roots of Religious Doubt, among others that can be cited along with the fact that both Darwin and Captain Fitzroy, each in their own way, were severely challenged by what they found during their travels aboard Fitzroy's ship, the HMS Beagle.

I can feel your concern about separation and I see how it drives certain interactions with a nameless poster that I may have over interpreted. My own personal experience has a hard time jibing with this "wedge" as I was never put under *ANY* religious or faith-based pressure to consider speciation as of divine origin. No sermons, no RE lessons, nothin'. By the time I was 10, I was what some here would call a "full blown Darwinist". When I learned of creationism, none of it seemed necessary (even "theistic evolution") to keep the faith.

Sure, you're right to imply that the ToE doesn't affect EVERYONE in this way, but because of the conceptual tensions inherent within the issues, the ToE has a tendency to undercut one's ability to place credence in some dusty, ancient religious writings, particularly when the findings of Archaeology, Paleontology, Anthropology and Genetics are added to Biology.

So, let's not say "cannot."

Far be it for me to criticize Christian practice, but these separations would likely be a lot less if (at least some more) churches weren't preaching against well established science like ToE.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Wow... 700+ replies now, eh? And yet the serious contention remains that Darwin is not revered as a "god" and that the ToE (macro) is not a sacred cow to the faithful.

Yaaawn... I'll check back around reply 1400 to see who has actually capitulated an inch.

why don't you stick around and actually participate in the discussion rather than posting some bible quotes?