Was Charles Darwin a fraud?

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

And, looking back, how ignorant was Darwin?

In many ways, definitely ignorant. In others, he certainly knew more things than you or I.

And I refuse to label myself "wise man," like evolutionists do.

And that's your choice. But you're still a Homo Sapiens, like it or lump it. Biological definitions don't change based on your feelings.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Then make sense, or I'm going to take what you say with a grain of sodium chloride.

I a bit lost now. Why should I 'make sense' when I say that your claims need to be shown to be wrong?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I understand their beliefs, their interpretations of scripture, and all that. What I don't understand is how they seem to blow off God telling us to be humble. So sure, they have their own unique beliefs about creation, but where does the hubris come from that tells them to not just have their beliefs but expect that the world's scientists should work under them?

It's no different to me than when I see Christians celebrating wealth, despite all of Christ's teachings about the evils of money.

I understand their beliefs, their interpretations of scripture, and all that. What I don't understand is how they seem to blow off God telling us to be humble. So sure, they have their own unique beliefs about creation, but where does the hubris come from that tells them to not just have their beliefs but expect that the world's scientists should work under them?

.... maybe we could ask AV directly?

It's no different to me than when I see Christians celebrating wealth, despite all of Christ's teachings about the evils of money.

I think it is a bit different, and I think that philosopher Basil Mitchell's premise about "The Layman's Predicament" lends itself to an explanation of why you and I bump into brethren like AV. I know, it can be annoying. But that doesn't mean we need to let the whole alleged tension between Christian Faith and Science become the actual center core of discussion, as if everything depends upon this one point alone.

 

[AV1611VET]

Again, River, this is the outcome.

Let me take this another direction: Have you studied the history of the development and social presence of the many varied Christian denominations that exist today? If you have, then you'd better understand why AV tends to remain with the view that he does being that it's socially conditioned. He knows who he's come to trust.

Be true to your school, or find another one.

The Bible wasn't written by martyrs to be used as a Heinz-57 variety pack.

 

[AV1611VET]

We all know it should be Francis Collins, right? (....no, no. I'm just kidding. But I do like Francis Collins as but one source among many).

Please keep in mind though, that the more outside sources you use, the more you run the risk of becoming confused.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Be true to your school, or find another one.

The Bible wasn't written by martyrs to be used as a Heinz-57 variety pack.

That's a good point, and in a certain way, I agree, AV.

 

[River Jordan]

.... maybe we could ask AV directly?

If you can get a straight answer out of him, that would be impressive.

I think it is a bit different, and I think that philosopher Basil Mitchell's premise about "The Layman's Predicament" lends itself to an explanation of why you and I bump into brethren like AV. I know, it can be annoying. But that doesn't mean we need to let the whole alleged tension between Christian Faith and Science become the actual center core of discussion, as if everything depends upon this one point alone.

I don't get the impression that anyone is saying everything depends on that one point alone. It's that it's the topic of this sub-forum so that's what gets discussed in it.

 

[AV1611VET]

I understand their beliefs, their interpretations of scripture, and all that.

* cough *

What I don't understand is how they seem to blow off God telling us to be humble. So sure, they have their own unique beliefs about creation, but where does the hubris come from that tells them to not just have their beliefs but expect that the world's scientists should work under them?

You'll love this post!

This is why I say every scientist on earth should read John 9.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Please keep in mind though, that the more outside sources you use, the more you run the risk of becoming confused.

I sort of disagree with that but I'm not going to argue the point.

Think of it like this: some of us, unlike yourself, weren't apparently given the "gift" of faith, so for us, it has been a long, difficult, arduous trek through No man's Land, hell and highwater, to finally, finally, but still irrevocably find Christ. Belief didn't come easily.

Rather than seeing the smaller differences we may have in our respective approaches to faith in Christ, maybe have a bit of mercy upon those intellectuals (like me) who have had a difficult time in life in making sense of it all. I have faith now, but I've never been given the gift of faith that someone like my wife has, and that it seems you have.

Maybe, just say a prayer of thanks to the Lord that folks like me are Christian at all?

Moreover, I'm pretty sure I'm not confused any longer, even if I know I don't have all of the answers.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

If you can get a straight answer out of him, that would be impressive.


I don't get the impression that anyone is saying everything depends on that one point alone. It's that it's the topic of this sub-forum so that's what gets discussed in it.

Yes..................I know.

 

[AV1611VET]

No one's!!

Wow.

A couple years ago, I got suspended when someone made a thread about new inventions scientists could come up with.

I answered with one single word, depicting an invention I think will be invented by a superscientist that is about to show himself, and got suspended for three days (or a week, I can't remember).

 

[River Jordan]

You'll love this post!

Scientists across the world read John 9. The next day they go back to work and?

 

[AV1611VET]

But you're still a Homo Sapiens,

And that's another point.

I don't particularly like being referred to as such, but I have to realize, as a dispensationalist, who is running the show nowadays.

You're just being, as I said earlier, true to your school.

I'm sure you don't like me referring to others as either "sinners" or "sinners saved by grace" either.

 

[River Jordan]

Wow.

A couple years ago, I got suspended when someone made a thread about new inventions scientists could come up with.

I answered with one single word, depicting an invention I think will be invented by a superscientist that is about to show himself, and got suspended for three days (or a week, I can't remember).

Ok.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

And that's another point.

I don't particularly like being referred to as such, but I have to realize, as a dispensationalist, who is running the show nowadays.

You're just being, as I said earlier, true to your school.

I'm sure you don't like me referring to others as either "sinners" or "sinners saved by grace" either.

And again: Biological definitions don't change based on your feelings.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why should I 'make sense' when I say that your claims need to be shown to be wrong?

Good question.

 

[River Jordan]

Yes..................I know.

I guess I've lost track of what you've been getting at. I had the impression that you didn't approve of how some of us were interacting with AV, but that may be mistaken.

 

[AV1611VET]

Maybe, just say a prayer of thanks to the Lord that folks like me are Christian at all?

You got it!

 

[dlamberth]

Yup.

On paper.

I've said this here a zillion times, and I'll say it again:

Evolution is nothing more than a game of connect-the-dots.

You've made that very clear. But that's ignoring the overwhelming evidence of what the Earth itSelf is showing us. As God's own Creation shows us, there's a progression over time from simple cell life forms to the more complex.

How many different humanoid species have walked the Earth? More than 15. And Homo sapiens DNA has at least 3 of those other humanoid DNA in our DNA. That's more than a connect-the-dot in our own species evolutionary trajectory.

 

[AV1611VET]

Scientists across the world read John 9. The next day they go back to work and?

... and leave it at the door.