Was Charles Darwin a fraud?

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Eyes barn ignit, eyes die ignit.

There's a difference between genuine ignorance and willful ignorance, which you demonstrate oh so ably.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Warden, you need to realize you're fighting his interpretive framework. AV didn't create his own interpretive framework, and since it's socially created, you're actually bashing your intellectual fists against an impenetrable wall.

Give your knuckles a rest, bro.

I don't do it for myself, I do it for others. Some arguments must be made and some claims must be shown to be argued against.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why?

See my Roundup™ example.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Oh sure they obviously have their beliefs, just as we all do. The difference I see though is how AV seems to think every scientist in the world should do all their work in line with his beliefs. I don't know very many people with that level of hubris.

Right. Because when we face a person from a denomination that is insular in its operative identity and interpretive method, this is the expressed outcome that you, me and others encounter. Again, I just roll with it.

 

[AV1611VET]

Again, just who do you think you are? You really believe scientists the world over should do their work in accordance with your beliefs? Not mine, not anyone else's but yours?

That's a cheap shot that doesn't work with me, chief.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

See my Roundup™ example.

Nothing in there about the necessity for the Bible to be invoked or contradicted. Just a claim from you, nothing else.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I don't do it for myself, I do it for others. Some arguments must be made and some claims must be shown to be argued against.

You're free to do what you want, but you'll never pierce his interpretive wall. And you know why, don't you?

 

[River Jordan]

Right. Because when you're in a denomination that is insular in its operative identity and interpretive method, this is the expressed outcome that you, me and others encounter. Again, I just roll with it.

But it's weird to see someone expecting others to follow his interpretation of scripture while also seemingly ignoring Christ's teachings about being humble.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

You're free to do what you want, but you'll never pierce his interpretive wall. And you know why, don't you?

Oh, I know I won't. I have no intention of doing so, for him or anyone. I would never want to... I want to say disabuse, but I feel that's not the right word. Make them rethink their believes, I guess. I don't want to do that.

 

[River Jordan]

That's a cheap shot that doesn't work with me, chief.

Cheap shot? How?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

But it's weird to see someone expecting others to follow his interpretation of scripture while also seemingly ignoring Christ's teachings about being humble.

Again, River, this is the outcome.

Let me take this another direction: Have you studied the history of the development and social presence of the many varied Christian denominations that exist today? If you have, then you'd better understand why AV tends to remain with the view that he does being that it's socially conditioned. He knows who he's come to trust.

 

[AV1611VET]

You darn well know I am. Again; Proverbs 12:22 in response to you only using the subtitle to refer to it to mislead people.

So you can reduce a 21-word title to one word, but I can't reduce it to ten!?

 

[AV1611VET]

Oh sure they obviously have their beliefs, just as we all do. The difference I see though is how AV seems to think every scientist in the world should do all their work in line with his beliefs. I don't know very many people with that level of hubris.

Then who's beliefs should they do all their work in line with?

(Please be specific.)

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

So you can reduce a 21-word title to one word, but I can't reduce it to ten!?

I didn't though, you did. And your 'reduction' is intentional misleading, especially when you compare it to a book that ended up leading to the most destructive and deadliest war in human history.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Then who's beliefs should they do all their work in line with?

(Please be specific.)

We all know it should be Francis Collins, right? (....no, no. I'm just kidding. But I do like Francis Collins as but one source among many).

 

[AV1611VET]

There's a difference between genuine ignorance and willful ignorance, which you demonstrate oh so ably.

And, looking back, how ignorant was Darwin?

And I refuse to label myself "wise man," like evolutionists do.

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't do it for myself, I do it for others. Some arguments must be made and some claims must be shown to be argued against.

Then make sense, or I'm going to take what you say with a grain of sodium chloride.

 

[River Jordan]

Again, River, this is the outcome.

Let me take this another direction: Have you studied the history of the development and social presence of the many varied Christian denominations that exist today? If you have, then you'd better understand why AV tends to remain with the view that he does being that it's socially conditioned. He knows who he's come to trust.

I understand their beliefs, their interpretations of scripture, and all that. What I don't understand is how they seem to blow off God telling us to be humble. So sure, they have their own unique beliefs about creation, but where does the hubris come from that tells them to not just have their beliefs but expect that the world's scientists should work under them?

It's no different to me than when I see Christians celebrating wealth, despite all of Christ's teachings about the evils of money.

 

[River Jordan]

Then who's beliefs should they do all their work in line with?

(Please be specific.)

No one's!! Doing science according to anyone's religious beliefs would be biased, which is exactly what scientists try to avoid and minimize.

 

[AV1611VET]

Right. Because when we face a person from a denomination that is insular in its operative identity and interpretive method, this is the expressed outcome that you, me and others encounter. Again, I just roll with it.

One line I've used here a k times, I think is apropos here:

"Welcome to the world of faith."